Today’s anniversary of the 7/7 bombings poses the BBC an interesting challenge – to provide wall-to-wall coverage without mentioning the “I-word” or the “M-word”.
No one wants to hold an entire community responsible for the sins of an extreme minority. The reponsibility for 7/7 lies with the evil-doers who planned and executed it. But given that the bombings were explicitly carried out in the name of Islam, not to mention the fact seems perverse.
The Today programme devoted most of the half-hour between 7 and 7.30 to the anniversary. As Sarah Montague so perceptively pointed out, today is the day when “four British men blew themselves up” (an Englishman, a Scotsman, an Irishman and a Welshman ?), but it was 7.23 before the M- or I-words were mentioned – when Church of England Bishop Tony Robinson told us that the bombers ‘weren’t Muslims at all’ !
It remains to be seen how the rest of the day’s coverage will pan out – but the Today programme does like to think that it sets the agenda.
“In the run-up to the first anniversary of 7/7 I’ve been a bit troubled. It all started on Tuesday when I came across the phrase “moderate” Muslims in one of our stories . Why the need to qualify, I found myself thinking? … Why don’t we describe Christians or Jews in the same way?”
Good point, Liliane. We should use the terms ‘devout’ and ‘non-devout’ instead.
Then, Liliane, you can ask a devout Muslim – a cleric, perhaps – if he (and it will be a he) believes that Muslims and non-Muslims (including Jews, women, homosexuals and Islamic apostates) should be afforded equal legal rights, protection from discrimination, the same freedoms, et al.
If he answers no, Liliane, then you might understand why Islam is not enjoying a particularly good press at this time.
“How exactly have British Muslims contributed to British society?”
Nice corner shops – oh no. wait. thats the Indian Hindu community…
pubs? oh, no – thats the Irish
restaurants? err. no – its those Hindus popping up again.
ah – building -construction?
errr. no. thats the Irish, Carribeans, and later the Poles/Russians.
hmm.. nah. you beat me on that one.
Muslims have contributed greatly to British society in many walks of life, Archie, in the same way that Catholics, Protestants and Jedis have. Many Muslims have succeeded in spite of Islam – or independently of it. The soldier who was killed in Afghanistan is someone whose sense of duty was not informed by his ‘Islamicness’, but by other considerations.
The loudest multiculturalists frequently look for a positive modern-day phenomenon and give credit for it to a ‘non-indigenous’ religious or ethnic group.
This is misguided: it is as misguided as lauding France because we have Camembert in Tesco or bigging up Christianity because hot-cross buns taste rather nice.
Likewise, ‘Islamic inventions’ is a daft concept: the Muslims who created wonderful art or invented something astounding did so because they were visionaries. To give credit to the religion with which they were associated – irrespective of whether or not they adhered to it – it patently silly.
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Biodegradable wrote:
“‘What turned him into a suicide bomber?’
Its the religion stupid!”
I think you have to be careful with that line of reasoning. While there’s no doubt that the terrorism of 7/7 was religiously motivated (it was Islamic Jihad in the minds of its perpetrators), that doesn’t mean that Islam itself turns its followers into terrorists.
US home-grown, mass-murderering terrorist Timothy McVeigh was clearly motivated by anti-Federal Government politics. But that doesn’t mean that anti-Federal Government politics makes people become terrorists.
On a day like today, with refreshed memories of the reality of Islamic terror; and the BBC in reactionary, full-on pro-Islam campaign mode – it’s vital to keep a sense of perspective.
At least it is if clear-thinking is your aim…
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I used to work for al-beebs in Jerusalem, can you believe it? I can’t even bring myself to visit their website anymore. I’ve seen the muslim/terrorist apologisers up close and personal and they’re terrifyingly committed to the cause. Facts won’t stand in their way. Glad this site exists, makes me feel like I’m not the only one who’s gone crazy.
PJF:
Biodegradable wrote:
“‘What turned him into a suicide bomber?’
Its the religion stupid!”
I think you have to be careful with that line of reasoning.
I’m afraid the Assignment programme I was commenting about didn’t provide another explanation I could relate to.
While there’s no doubt that the terrorism of 7/7 was religiously motivated (it was Islamic Jihad in the minds of its perpetrators), that doesn’t mean that Islam itself turns its followers into terrorists.
While its probably true that NOT ALL Muslims are terrorists it is also pretty much the case that ALMOST ALL terrorism around the world is inspired by Islam and perpetrated by Muslims:
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/index.html#Attacks
US home-grown, mass-murderering terrorist Timothy McVeigh was clearly motivated by anti-Federal Government politics. But that doesn’t mean that anti-Federal Government politics makes people become terrorists.
Thankfully there has only been one Timothy McVeigh (and one Unabomber) but we are surrounded by many thousands of Muslims who hate us. “Anti-Federal Government politics”, whatever that is, does not generally preach jihad, Islam does.
I wish it weren’t so, but it is.
“I’ve seen the muslim/terrorist apologisers up close and personal and they’re terrifyingly committed to the cause.”
paul reynolds seems to be.
one night he was slap bang in the middle of a Hamas funeral!
the other night, he was behind Hamas lines, with gunmen in the background.
Of course, we never see things from the Israeli army side. And this is on prime time “news”.
“I think you have to be careful with that line of reasoning. ”
have you heard of Sayeed Qutb?
if you havent , you should.
Strictly speaking, as long as a person says ‘There is no god but God and Mohammed is his Prophet, he is a Muslim. So the good Cof E bishop is wrong. The Muslim can be a bad Muslim, or bring disgrace on Islam, but still is a Muslim.
Oh so we have to find good things that have been brought here by our enemies do we ?
Well thanks to Nazi Germany we have the ferroceptor – that ferrite rod inside radios which amplifiers the RF to give a better signal. We should also be grateful for the tape recorder they built and used at Radio Luxembourg using mylar tape.
And if Otton Hahn had not started work on atomic fission and Heisenberg on the atomic bomb for Germany, Leo Szilard who developed the chain reaction model ould not have persuaded Einstein to write to FDR to urge the US to start The Manhattan Project……………then we wouldn’t have had the bomb to stop the Soviets dominating Europe
So all in all Nazi Germany brought us many lasting benefits (or did it ?)
The Muslim can be a bad Muslim, or bring disgrace on Islam, but still is a Muslim.
you talking about the Bishop of Pontefract ? He probably doesn’t know that Lapsed Muslims push up daisies.
Why Pontefract pop 28.000 hasaSuffragan Bishop beats me – why we have 114 Bishos and only had 30 in Victorian times beats me.
In fact I don’t think you need more than one bishop per county nowadays. THey should make at least 70 of them redundant
benjamin how are the bbc seen in israel by the people who live there.
virtually all the churchmen on Radio 4 today have been in denial.
I prefer the take of the catholic Archbish of Sydney, who really raises the serious questions – can Islam ever adapt to modernity and drop its violent streak ?
http://www.sydney.catholic.org.au/Archbishop/Addresses/200627_681.shtml
The RC Church (not the Anglian) is getting rather irate lately about the way their parishioners are being discriminated against and killed etc in Muslim countries when there are hundreds of places of Islamic worship over here yet few churches in these countries….and don’t forget that Benny the Pope (Bless his wee red socks) has already come out (eh?) and said that Islam cannot change because they accept the Koran as the absolute and final word of God unlike the Bible which can and has been re-interpreted as the centuries rolled by. Watch for increasing pressure on governments from the largest religion in the world if things don’t get better soon.
http://islamicweb.com/begin/results.htm
Claims 1.9 billion Muslims and in ten years Muslims have increased by:
North America (1989-1998) 25%
Africa 2.15%
Asia 12.57%
Europe 142.35%
Latin America -4.73%
Australia 257.01%
Meanwhile:
BBC says
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/4243727.stm
The Roman Catholic Church – the largest branch of Christianity – says there are a total of 1.086 billion baptised members around the globe.
This figure is expected to exceed 1.1 billion in 2005, with rapid growth in Africa and Asia.
Christians as a whole are 2.1 billion.
Interesting numbers….
I’ve just seen the BBC news at 6:00 (a special hour commemorating 7/7). Included was an interview with Norman Kember at the IslamFest at Ally Pally. Kember was burbling on about about how Moslems Christians and Jews praying for him meant that they were all coming together in peace. Unfortunately for Kember’s well-meaning idiocy and the BBC’s benevolent “all’s for the best in the best of all possible worlds”, a clip of the Fest showed a banner equating Zionism and Apartheid (what’s that got to do with the glory of Islam?): oh dear – apparently only this lot of dhimmis will go to heaven http://www.jfjfp.org/about.htm
dave t-> interesting article here:
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=7109
Bless you my son!
well my thoughts are that , if the CNA is publishing something like that, you can be sure that Pope Benny has given his approval, such is the rather rigid hierarchical nature of the Vatican.
Vatican reading is rather like Kremlinology in that regard.
Is this pre-emptive denial?
His uncle, who did not want to be named, said: “We are worried that a terrorist group has got him and is forcing him to work for them. They might want him because of the chemicals thing.
“They look at the list of who is graduating from those courses. It’s like a football coach looking out for the best players, then trying to recruit them.”
http://www.thisisbradford.co.uk/news/tibnews/display.var.824112.0.has_terror_gang_grabbed_our_son.php
I find the final para very disturbing.
Did the people make these claims to the Police regarding terrorist recruitment before their son went missing?
http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/archives/007398.php
“The Vatican has begun to dismantle the policy of appeasing Muslim governments that oppress Christian minorities, an approach that reached its zenith when Pope John Paul the Great kissed the Qu’ran. The Vatican will instead insist on protecting Christian minorities in the ummah as Islamists increasingly targets them for abuse and worse:
‘Enough now with this turning the other cheek! It’s our duty to protect ourselves.” Thus spoke Monsignor Velasio De Paolis, secretary of the Vatican’s supreme court, referring to Muslims. Explaining his apparent rejection of Jesus’ admonition to his followers to “turn the other cheek,” De Paolis noted that “The West has had relations with the Arab countries for half a century…and has not been able to get the slightest concession on human rights.”
De Paolis is hardly alone in his thinking; indeed, the Catholic Church is undergoing a dramatic shift from a decades-old policy to protect Catholics living under Muslim rule. The old methods of quiet diplomacy and muted appeasement have clearly failed.”
The instruction of turning the other cheek has long been prone to misinterpretation. Nothing in Christianity requires its adherents to blithely sentence themselves or their brethren to abuse or death, nor did Christ teach that in his instruction. Jesus taught us patience, and not to blindly return every provocation with violence. He taught peace as the first resort, but even Jesus did not use that as an exclusive strategy. The Bible shows Jesus violently ejecting the moneychangers from the temple, for instance, hardly a turn-the-other-cheek moment. He also told his apostles, “Let him who has no sword sell his mantle and buy one” (Luke 22:36).
Push too much and people will push back…
Did anyone go to the Islamexpo. It would be interesting to get a more nuanced view of it than big brother corp’s propaganda.
My friend just phoned me from Islington, Upper St to say its full of police and ambulances! Not sure what is going on, possibly a test to see how they would cope in another 7/7 but not a great day to do it. If anyone knows what is going on please do tell.
ok caped. i’ll do my best.
Islamexpo?
I’m just waiting for the representatives of the RoP to organize a ‘Not in my name’ march to recognise 7/7.
They can’t.
They won’t.
nothing , so far, on the major news sites. could be just a drill or bomb scare?
Did anyone protest outside the expo? That would be interesting and justified. I mean, why not have banners saying “stop the suicide bombings”. But I suspect the police would likely arrest people who were advocating against violence.
I’ve just seen the BBC news at 6:00 (a special hour commemorating 7/7)
Yes, it was both disappointing and infuriating.
I couldn’t help thinking that if the BBC were an American network then a) it wouldn’t be called the BBC 🙂 and b) the news would have ended with Vera Lynn singing “London Pride” under a video montage of the post-bombing carnage, followed by typical scenes of normal London life – including the WWII bombers flying down the Mall, dropping poppy petals – finishing with the Union flag flying over Buckingham Palace.
It would have been a massive two-fingered salute to the terrorists. But perhaps that’s just too typical of “vulgar” and “uncultured” Yank ways – just not the done thing in ever-so-much-more-highly-evolved Britain.
PJF wrote: “On a day like today, with refreshed memories of the reality of Islamic terror”.
Even those with poor short-term memories should have little trouble remembering terrorism conducted in the name of the Religion of Peace.
In the opening piece on the blog Laban wrote:
“No one wants to hold an entire community responsible for the sins of an extreme minority”
That would be no-one except the majority of the contributors in thiscomments section who have made sweeping generalisations about Islam.
archduke:
“How exactly have British Muslims contributed to British society?”
Your reply that Muslims had contributed nothing ws trite nonsense. There are Muslims in the UK who are doctors, teachers, nurses, cleaners, environmental health officers, police officers, home care workers, dinner ladies and a whle host of other public sector jobs.
In the private sector there are Muslims who own corner shops (your sterotype that all corner shop owners are Hindu is just plain wrong), company directors, lawyers, estate agents, take away shop owners, indian restaurant owners, property surveyors.
But of course it serves your purposes to make unfounded claims as it helps you justify your hatred of Muslims.
“But of course it serves your purposes to make unfounded claims as it helps you justify your hatred of Muslims.”
Erm… who were the terrorists on July 7th? Who committed the atrocities of September 11th? Bali? Palestine? Kashmir? Madrid? Beslan?
What does Islam say about killing infidels? How peaceful was Mohammed again?
Make that: What does the koran say about killing infidels?
“There are Muslims in the UK who are doctors, teachers, nurses, cleaners, environmental health officers, police officers, home care workers, dinner ladies and a whle host of other public sector jobs.
In the private sector there are Muslims who own corner shops (your sterotype that all corner shop owners are Hindu is just plain wrong), company directors, lawyers, estate agents, take away shop owners, indian restaurant owners, property surveyors.”
I couldn’t agree more but, unfortunately for the Muslim community, its leaders reflect a rather more controversial view of the community’s interests. When I read statements by, say, Dr Assami Tamimi part of the Muslim Association of Britain http://hurryupharry.bloghouse.net/archives/2005/07/10/hypocrite.php or see that London’s mayor has welcomed an apologist for suicide bombings to London http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/stories/2004/07_july/07/newsnight.shtml with no reported criticsm by any other leader of the Muslim community, what am I to think? I think that silence implies consent. When I see – on the anniversary of the 7/7 atrocity perpetrated by Islamic terrorists – a festival exalting Islam I can only think that the leaders of the Muslim community responsible for this event have lost all sense, not only of decency, but of any idea that they are – or even wish to be – a part of the greater British community.
Taken in totality, Islamic Immigration to the UK , and the “benefit” sink ummah colonies they created have been a DISASTER for the British public.
Agree with umbongo above that a lot of muslims make a contribution to our society and would never dream of any such acts as carried out.But for that celebration of islam to be allowed to go ahead on the anniversary just takes the biscuit .Surely the organisers could have postponed the event til a later date and the leaders have to take the blame for that .Not that the islamophile Livingstone would ahve stopped it.
“In the private sector there are Muslims who own corner shops …….company directors, lawyers, estate agents, take away shop owners, indian restaurant owners, property surveyors.”
And if you keep your eyes on the court reports isn’t it surprising how disproportionately many seem to have problems staying on the right side of the law in the process of contributing to that society. Of course that couldn’t be remotely connected with the trouble the police seem to be reporting in the same area http://www.guardian.co.uk/race/story/0,,1794445,00.html
I am a rare commenter on this site but I have to agree with A Lurker that the comments are overly antipathetic towards Muslims as whole.
Not all are frothing at the mouth terrorists, and as has been mentioned before the schools in Pakistan have a significant role to play in the indoctrination of young British Muslims within Britain.
For me the biggest problem is the fact that the liberal establishment doesn’t recognise that there is a problem and swims blithely on in a sea of imaginary political correctness ignoring both the high drug use and alcoholism among young Muslims, leaving them no alternative but to turn to prayer leaders in mosques to rescue them; in the same way that AA (a Christian organisation by the way) deals with the middle aged Anglo-Saxon drunks amongst us.
I would like to apologise for the comments above, as they are veering on blaming an entire people, whilst not taking account of the leaders who are peddling their Jew-hating , woman hating , Islamfascism.
It was meant half in jest, but obviously came out wrong.
Still doesnt make me like Islam as an ideology one bit though, me being a rampant atheist and all that.
Pounce. Want the BBC to cover the story of the Vicar who gave up her calling after her daughter was killed? Story and video here
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bristol/4873248.stm
I’m personally a little annoyed with all the shots the Brits are taking at the US/NYC- I’ve seen “we didn’t overeact” (if that’s a dig at Iraq- well, no – you couldn’t invade them AGAIN)
“we didn’t abandon our city”- neither did New Yorkers- a lot moved out, sure-since 3000 people were killed- not 52 (I don’t count terrorists as victims) 3000 is a small town- 52 is a commuter plane-
Let’s face it – its NOT to be compared with 9/11- not even close
No disrespect to the friends and families of 7/7- but there just aren’t that many of them-
Sigh…
Was the Iraq invasion to blame for radicalising these young muslims? There was 2m of us marched at the anti War demo in 2002, the majority of us white and english and we were all angry, ok not angry enough to kill innocent people, but pretty damned ticked nonetheless. Remember that Bradford is a very segregated city anyway with riots a few years back between asians and whites. They were already angry, the Iraq War just gave the opportunity to the mullahs to spread their poison, as the Government was warned before and after the Iraq invasion.
Archduke, Peregrine, Umbongo – glad to see you’ve grasped the point that the actions of some misguided, brainwashed idiots does not mean that all Muslims are terrorists or support terrorists.
I think the point about the leadership of the Muslim community is a point well made.
So look a liberal leftie and some B-BBC contributers actually agree. Group hug anyone? 😉
Lucy:
A BIG correction for you…
“Remember that Bradford is a very segregated city anyway with riots a few years back between asians and whites.”
The riots were not between Asians and whites.
The riots were Asians (not of Indian heritage BTW) against the Police.
Started by the Anti-Nazi League who provoked Asian youths at a rally for four hours on the morning of the first day.
A lurker:
archduke:
“How exactly have British Muslims contributed to British society?”
Actually it was I who asked that question with respect the comments made by one of the organisers of yesterday’s IslamoFest:
Mr Hibatullah… “We are trying to give people a sense off Islamic history, of identity but, crucially, we are trying to provide means through which British Muslims can show how they have contributed to our society.”
My point is that although there may well be Muslims in the trades and professions you mention, Muslims have not contributed anything more to (our) society than have Jews, Christians, Hindus, Sikhs, Bhuddists, Agnostics or anybody else.
Further to my last comment, if you read the article reporting on said IslamoFest no evidence is presented that in fact Islam has contributed anything, other than a 16th century copy of the Koran and an Islamicized Union flag, which personally I find offensive in itself.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/5158470.stm
The Vatican Confronts Islam
To develop the logic of Lucy’s argument, it would seem that if she were more angry she (along with the 2m wot was at the march) might deliberately kill innocent civilians. A certain fondness for the name “Lucy” inclines me to hope that isn’t the case.
Of course the reality is that anger over the Iraq war did not cause the 7/7 murders. Moral depravity on the part of the al Qaeda killers is what caused them. The common term for such moral depravity, even amongst non-religious types such as myself, is “evil”.
But then my moral compass isn’t set by the rantings of a violent, drug addled wrock star.
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When British Muslims, or indeed any Muslim country, can claim a list of contributions to society such as this I’ll be delighted:
http://newsoftheday.com/
All of this from a country the size of Wales with a population smaller than that of London, and all the while obliged to spend huge resources, both material and human, to defend itself from annihilation.
Over at the Beeb’s HYS:
“Is BBC bosses pay at the right level?”
http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thread.jspa?threadID=2502&edition=1