Orla Guerin’s truth.
“the more we walked, the worse it got… this town used to be home to 7000 people.”
Her report from the town of Bint Jbeil included an unmistakeable hint about prosecuting Israel for war crimes.
It’s a good job there are other sources. Drinking from Home has put her to shame, with the help of Channel Four’s Alex Thompson, who reported from the same town.
From Thompson we get the reality: “the centre of the town destroyed on a really wholesale scale, more so than since the last civilians left here, though it has to be said that on the outskirts, the suburbs – pretty much untouched by the Israeli attack and invasion.”
Hey, the outskirts, the suburbs- isn’t that where most people generally live? Yes indeed, Alex Thompson, it had to be said.
I agree with Ian Dale. The BBC Should Fire Orla Guerin.
(hat tip to Rog in the comments)
And watching BBC TV six o clock news tonight Clive Myrie repeated Orla’s claim that he didn’t think there was a house left standing in Bint Jbeil. Probably because Orla told him so.
Your post is slightly undercut by the provision of a link to the Channel Four webpage where the main photo is described thus:
“A Lebanese man carries his son on shoulders as walks next a destroyed building in the southern Beirut suburbs, August 14 (reuters)”
Ooops.
Or is Beirut different to Bint Jbeil in that civilians don’t actually live in the suburbs?
Chris Hitchens
I suggest you look before leaping into commenting. The Drinking from Home blogsite pictures the outskirts of Bint Jbeil. It is in Alex Thompson’s description “virtually intact.” Just scroll down and see for yourself.
http://drinkingfromhome.blogspot.com/2006/08/orla-guerin-busted.html
As for South Beirut, that’s taken a hit because it was a Hizbollah stronghold. But the rest of Beirut is up and running as usual.
Chris Hitchens,
The southern Beirut suburbs were the Hizballah stronghold – apparently the rest of Beirut is untouched. Some reports talk about an area of 12 city blocks or one square kilometer of Beirut only being affected.
Orla Göering’s report showed an anti-aircraft gun mounted on a vehicle in the part of Bint Jbeil that had been hit by Israel – that would explain why that area was targeted.
Chris Hitchens – if you had actually read the Channel 4 webpage you might have seen this: “Alex Thomson managed to travel from Tyre to the town of Tibnin and then onto the Hizbollah stronghold of Bint Jbeil – the very front line of the conflict – scene of some the worst clashes between Israeli troops and Hizbollah.” That’s where the video report comes from.
Oh, I see the point you’re trying to make. Sorry, long day. In which case – I refer you to Biodegradable’s answer.
And Oscar’s.
I know Orla Guerin – used to work with her. Lovely person. But she just doesn’t like Jews writ large. Individual ones are fine, but as a nation, doing national things like trying to defend itself, what an outrage…
I think that Orla Goering’s bias is so well documented that when she says something remotely close to truth will be the day of the greatest scoop
For anybody building a website devoted to Orla Guerin (somebody should be…), here is the clip:
I am so bored with the BBC – really bored. It is like a cracked record. orla Guerin and her Reuters husband – they are just propagandists. It is so tiresome.
A daily outpouring of Left Wing propaganda gets to the point where you just say – them again. As for Lebanon it is a battlefield – they wanted it that way. After all Israel is incapable of doing any real damage it has only got light fighter aircraft with nothing heavy like B-52s.
It is all so overplayed. None of these countries in the Middle East have really devastating firepower.
Rick,
She’s just been let loose on the 10 o-clock news again.
I’ll try and upload the video later on this evening.
This is not the first time the BBC has used Bint Jbeil to sell us Hizbollah propaganda. Fergal ‘Cry Me A River’ Keane had a guided tour from Hizbollah a wee while ago:
http://southpawdave.blogspot.com/2006/08/hizbollywood-bint-jbeil.html
BTW “4 Poofs and a Piano” are on Radio 5 sining the praises of drugs and rent boys. How very amusing.
Just heard some Lebanese twerp on World Tonight say it was “like Hiroshima” – super – they’ll all die of radiation then.
Is hyperbole integral to the overblown rhetoric of Arabs ? They have such flowery language and extravagant claims – bloated – in the word. I am really bored with these people………they are like children with no rationality whatsoever
Orla strikes again.
Has anyone complained to the BBC about this? This sort of thing is Andrew Gilligan-type stuff.
“Just heard some Lebanese twerp on World Tonight say it was “like Hiroshima” – super – they’ll all die of radiation then.”
he was probably , in fact, more than likely, to be Hezbollah.
“It is all so overplayed. None of these countries in the Middle East have really devastating firepower.
Rick | ”
indeed – the overplaying by the BBC is getting me bored now.
by the standards of history, this israel-hez war was just a skirmish.
Anonymous | 16.08.06 – 12:02 am
Yes. I posted on this blog on an open thread and phoned the beeb to register a complaint about orla goering’s lying.
See gordon-bennett | 14.08.06 – 10:38 pm
Glad to see DFH’s find is being picked up by the big US blogs:
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=22119_Leading_BBC_Reporter_Caught_Lying&only
That should raise awareness of the mendacious output by this “reporter”.
“the overplaying by the BBC is getting me bored now.
by the standards of history, this israel-hez war was just a skirmish.”
Two ways to look at this I think. Certainly by historical and international standards the level of shock horror and general blubbing was excessive for the casualty rate. If the Beeb wants to wander around warzones composing teary eyed odes to human misery they should probably prioritise the Congo. Similarly some of the hyperbole coming from the Isreali “support” was a bit excessive. I recall Mel Phillips writing that if a ceasefire agreed prior to the utter annhilation of Hezbollah this would result in “a second Jewish holocaust”. Well here we are and I really can’t see that happening….
The second way of looking at it is that shit loads of my taxes will now inevitably be ploughed into tidying up the mess due to our “strategic interests” in the region, I’m just that little bit more likely to be blown up on my way to the office and it’ll become even more impossible to prevent conversations with Jewish/Muslim colleagues from escalating into tedious rants.
Weird
On one hand she says it is a great vistory for Hellbolla
On the other hand she says their towns have all been smashed to the ground…..
Surely, in war, if your towns are still standing, you win…..and if your towns are smashed into the ground, you lose…….
Sounds like she knows Hezzbolla got its arse kicked, so feels she has to come do some cheerleading for her Islamic Pimps…….and lets face it, no western man would touch a bird as Ugly as this Turkey…..lol.
You can just imaine her jumping up and down saying “Let me go up there, let me go up there”…she could’nt ait to spit forth her vile Islamic Propaganda……..
And it shows, and the whole world is watching…..
BBC – The long Slow Death……
Hello All,
I always thought Julie Burchill was a typical big mouth hack full of her own self importance, if this effort is anything to go by I will have to start eating my own assumptions. I cannot help but say bravo to this piece.
http://allisonkaplansommer.blogmosis.com/history/032781.html
In this particular war survival for Hizballah is victory. It’s not what the West would call a victory but, in this case, survival is all. It doesn’t matter to Iran/Syria/Hizballah about material losses or the deaths of Hizballah members: as long as Hizballah remains in being it’s OK. As for civilian deaths due to Hizballah planting themselves among the Lebanese population – the more the better: after all Orla and Fergus and Jeremy can be relied on to provide the conveyor belt for Hizballah propaganda, staged photos etc etc.
In your rush to damn Guerin, you neglected to check your facts. The report clearly showed a destroyed urban environment, and suggested that 7,000 people’s homes had been ruined. That a suburb of the town, visible across a river hadn’t been hit as badly is pretty much irrelevent. Bint Jbeil has a population of circa 30,000, so the destruction of the urban centre would probably account for those 7,000 made homeless by the attack on the city.
And please… She didn’t ponder on the provenence of the anti-tank weapons? When did Orla Guerin become expert in identifying the source of bazookas? Spare me this nonsense.
Guerin reports on the impact on this town, on the local sentiment towards Hizbullah, and does so in an impartial manner. She wasn’t there to cover Israel’s reaction, but that of the southern Lebanese. Does anyone dispute that she got the gist of their feelings and communicated them clearly?
This is telling:
Newsnight blog: http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/newsnight/2006/08/which_side_are_you_on.html
Intro states: “A majority of the British public opposed the Iraq war and Tony Blair’s position on the war in Lebanon”
When challenged on the assertion that “A majority of the British public opposed … Tony Blair’s position on the war in Lebanon”
It is justified thus, by the Newsnight editor:
It is never justified for anyone to attack British civilians because of Britain’s actions in Iraq and Afghanistan
83% agreed
YouGov /The Sun 7 July 2006
How would you rate the US and British government’s performance in the (Israel/Lebanon) crisis?
60% very poor
YouGov/Telegraph 27 July 2006
Do you think the war to remove Saddam Hussein was justified?
51% opposed.
ICM/Guardian 23 July 2006
On one poll cited is relevant to the Hezbollah-inspired crisis.
AND it asks about the PERFORMANCE of the government not whether they SUPPORT or OPPOSE our position.
Lies, damn lies and statistics I guess.
Ryean writes:
“Lies, damn lies and statistics I guess.”
Well, yes. But everyone he knows opposes the UK’s foreign policy. And that’s what really counts, after all.
Mind you, whether he’d be quite so keen to see the will of the people enacted if the question was about capital punishment or immigration, is another thing altogether!
al “7,000 people’s homes had been ruined
7,000 made homeless”
Just people? Innocent civilians?
That’s certainly the tone of BBC reports from Lebanon, echoed by al.
Where did the Hezbollah “fighters” live? Where did their families live?
Is it not possible that the homes destroyed are not those of “innocent civilians”? Shouldn’t the BBC at least consider that possibility & reflect it in reports?
al
“Does anyone dispute that she got the gist of their feelings and communicated them clearly?”
Our viewpoint is that she seems able to do this a little too easily.
“In your rush to damn Guerin, you neglected to check your facts.”
No, in Guerin’s rush to condemn Israel she forgot to mention any.
Any valid ones, that is.
will,
when you have some information about the Hizbullah activities of any of those 7,000 people, then maybe you’ll pass that info on to the beeb. In the meantime they haven’t made any judgement as to the occupation of those with destroyed homes. The report made clear the overall support for Hizbullah in the region, so perhaps that undermines the humanity of those made homeless in your eyes?
Given that the highest estimates of Hizbullah numbers indicate a fighting strength of 15,000, it’s pretty unlikely that half of them happened to live in this one town, don’cha think?
Why did not she show us the underground network that was the main feature of this town? Surely with her connections she could’ve asked her friends to be a bit more forthcoming.
“Our viewpoint is that she seems able to do this a little too easily.”
Your gut feeling?
What’s she covered in her report that’s factually incorrect?
“What’s she covered in her report that’s factually incorrect?”
That the town had been wiped out. For starters.
“That the town had been wiped out. For starters.”
She was clear as to the scope of the destruction – “this town used to be home to 7000 people.” That’s clearly talking about the urban area of the town, and not it’s suburbs.
You’re misdefining urban, I’m afraid. I don’t want to nit-pick- it was lying, plain and simple.
But, if you want to nitpick then the town includes the suburbs.
It is strange that in all the massive coverage of South Lebanon, there has been no coverage whatsoever of Hezbollah. A little strange, no? Either there is nothing to see, or the beeboids like Guerin don’t want to see anything that might interrupt their tears.
A great post from the DHYS on cuddly uncle Fidel:-
“What a surprise! Another Have Your Say topic turns into an exercise in left-wing America bashing. Ironically enough, you never see any HYS posts from Cuba for the simple reason that visiting the BBC website is a criminal offense in Castro’s island paradise. Hmm … maybe Castro’s not such a bad guy after all.”
Steve, New York
I’m not the one painting a false scenario onto her words. Bint Jbeil has a population of 30,000. She claimed that 7,000 (not 30,000) had been made homeless by the destruction of the town. The urban area looks to my eyes to have been nearl levelled. If the response to that is that a suburb seems to have avoided the worst of it, so it’s a lie, then you have to ask yourself who’s engaging in nit-picking?
No, you’re misleading people. she claimed the town had been ‘wiped out’-see post.
Look, if someone tells me a town has 7000 people, that’s what I assume to be the case. Why lie about a matter of fact? Unless…
You have to ask yourself, who is the news provider here?
“Either there is nothing to see, or the beeboids like Guerin don’t want to see anything that might interrupt their tears.”
Journalists in southern Lebanon have been consistent in pointing out that they rarely encounter Hizbullah fighters. Hizbullah fighters, for some strange reason, like to keep a low profile in the current climate.
The beeb have given ample coverage to Hizbullah’s PR and leadership positions – just as it has to Israel’s.
I’d consider a town that had it’s urban infrastructure destroyed ‘wiped out’. If all you’re left with is suburbs, then you’ve no town any more.
If say, Stratford was levelled, leaving only it’s suburbs, would you claim it hadn’t been wiped out?
Suburbs are parts of towns. They are lower level urban areas. She may have been trying to cover herself with a figure of 7000 (and I’d be interested to know how she came by the nice round figure), but the intent was to mislead. She painted the Israelis as having levelled “the town”. That’s a lie and I find myself intrigued that you want to defend it.
Alex Thompson was careful to point out the reality, for the not-so-pro-Israel C4 News. The reality is that Guerin’s was both bad journalism, a lie, and a deliberate attempt to deceive.
Re: Ben’s point, at the top. I’ve no doubt she’s personally very nice, but she certainly has an agenda.
Will wrote;
That’s certainly the tone of BBC reports from Lebanon, echoed by al.
Where did the Hezbollah “fighters” live? Where did their families live?
Is it not possible that the homes destroyed are not those of “innocent civilians”? Shouldn’t the BBC at least consider that possibility & reflect it in reports?
Good point and if I may expand in that direction. The BBC goes to great lengths in which to add that the Lebanese body count is mainly civilian. However as the Israeli airforce were conducting 100+ airstrikes a day against Hezbollah rocket launchers then just using the very low estimate of 1 hezbollah death for each 2 strikes soon has the terrorist death count rising. But what I cannot understand is how the BBC proclaims how Hezbollah won based on its ability to fire rockets. The fact that they could still roll out mobile launches after so many had been destroyed says a lot about hezbollahs peaceful agenda. To stock pile so many tells me they knew they would lose hundreds and thus their aim all along was a publicity stunt in which to call off the doves of peace from Lebanon (calling for them to disarm) rather than any altruistic purpose in which to regain a mythical Lebanese land from occupation.
al
But what the BBC fails to do is to provide context to the destruction they report. They do not, as you contend, ask any difficult or serious questions about Hezbollah, and they completely skate over the possibility that the destroyed areas may have been Hezbollah facilities, as well as civilian ones. And what about Syria and Iran? Apart from telling us that Bashar al assad has declared victory for Hezbollah, the BBC has given no serious coverage to the arming and financing (which is now no doubt REarming and REfinancing) of Hezbollah by Syria and Iran. For example, more than once I have seen or heard BBC reports where Israeli ordnance is examined to show that it was made in the USA, but nothing silmilar on the provenance of Hezbollah rockets.
And whilst I think about it, we had typical Beeboid Hugh Sykes on PM last night spending a whole 5 minutes telling us that the tourist industry in Lebanon was ruined. There was much of the “tables are emty as the waiters stand idly by” stuff. What was the point of this apart from stating the bleeding obvious? Of course there are no holidaymakers in Lebanon at present, just as there aren’t any in northern Israel (note he didn’t report from Haifa’s beaches). And finally, given the complete destruction of South Lebanon that the BBC has been ramming down our throats for the last month, I’m rather surprised that there are any “tables are emty as the waiters stand idly by”. Perhaps they are Hezbollah fighters in camouflage, or perhaps in reality the BBC has overplayed the “destruction of Lebanon” card a little too much.
“That’s a lie and I find myself intrigued that you want to defend it.”
I’m intrigued that you consider her figure of 7,000 as ‘covering herself’ when it clarified, not blurred, the extent of destruction to the town.
Bottom line is that the report was a factual one, and trying to claim untouched suburbs as a counterpoint to the destruction of a town is simply playing with words.
You may not like Guerin, but she passes the test of factual reporting.
Al- you’ve given me the argument really.
When you say she clarified the extent of the destruction of the town with the figure of 7000, you imply the town goes beyond 7000- which it no doubt does, including the suburbs as is the usual practise, certainly in Britain.
In other words Guerin said that the town was detroyed, whereas in fact a part of the town was destroyed. Since that is the entire claim of this post, of DFH and of Alex Thompson of C4News, I would call that the last word on the matter.
You agree with me that Orla’s figures and her words don’t match, thereby misleading viewers around the world. I am sure you will join me then in calling Orla Guerin a liar.
Some quotes from Orla Guerin.
‘”I haven’t seen a single building that isn’t damaged in some way. Many have been flattened, many have been singed. This town has really been wiped out.”
Clearly, it hasn’t been “wiped out”. If she moved a short distance away, she would find undamaged buildings.
Incidentally, what is to stop Orla nipping over to a suburb in Haifa and filing the same report? Sections of that town have been smashed to pieces and hundreds of thousands of people have been forced top leave their homes but the town has not been wiped out. She may find the remains of missile or two fired from Bint Jbeil.
“The more we walked the worse it got. 7,000 people used to live here. The international community may well ask how Israel can explain all this in the name of fighting Hezbollah.”
It [the [‘international community’] might like to ask Hezbollah too. And Orla seems to quick to blame Israel – where is the context? Who was ‘living’ there? What happened there, Orla? You don’t know? Well, if you don’t know do not make pompous assumptions.
“In a month of fighting, Israel couldn’t beat Hezbollah – probably not how its ally the United States expected things to turn out. For George Bush this is a bad chapter in the war on terror…”
Thanks for the editorialising, Orla. In one report you have depicted Hezbollah as the victim and the victor, with no context, no facts to speak of, and no balance whatsoever. Instead, you have told us what what you think this means to George Bush.
From Wikipedia:
“Guerin left RTÉ to run as a Labour Party (Ireland) candidate in the 1994 elections to the European parliament.”
From the Labour party (Ireland web site):
“The destruction of the lives of civilians in Israel has to be condemned unequivocally. The response of Israel however, supported by the most powerful country in the world, is OUTRAGEOUS both in terms of the killing and injuring of civilians and the destruction of civilian infrastructure, which is occurring in such fashion as to make impossible the delivery of humanitarian relief by the United Nations and its agencies.”
Given that dear Orla is married to an Egyptian/Palestinian, how can it be considered possible for her to give a balanced account of the Middle East? How stupid do the BBC think we are?
And, just for a laugh, go and see what the youth section of Orla’s old party are up to:-
http://www.labour.ie/youth/news/index/20060712195438.html
http://www.labour.ie/youth/campaigns/index/20040908125109.html