Orla Guerin’s truth.
“the more we walked, the worse it got… this town used to be home to 7000 people.”
Her report from the town of Bint Jbeil included an unmistakeable hint about prosecuting Israel for war crimes.
It’s a good job there are other sources. Drinking from Home has put her to shame, with the help of Channel Four’s Alex Thompson, who reported from the same town.
From Thompson we get the reality: “the centre of the town destroyed on a really wholesale scale, more so than since the last civilians left here, though it has to be said that on the outskirts, the suburbs – pretty much untouched by the Israeli attack and invasion.”
Hey, the outskirts, the suburbs- isn’t that where most people generally live? Yes indeed, Alex Thompson, it had to be said.
I agree with Ian Dale. The BBC Should Fire Orla Guerin.
(hat tip to Rog in the comments)
Oh al, come off it:
“If [IDF targetting] had been better you would expect either lower civilian casualties or higher Hizbullah casualties. Neither you, nor I know how many Hizbullah fighters were killed…”
Spot the logical inconsistency, at all?
That’s enough nonsense for one day – I’m off!
@pounce,
They chould be the same person, but the angles are bad so you can’t tell.
However the second photograph is staged. It’s a silly melodramatic pose.
Note that the photographer, shot it from below eye level (notice the perspective). Normally people are aware enough of their surroundings not to be keen on that.
Also notice how the photo is carefully front lit by the sun. The woman is directly facing the sun (un natural), while the photographer is at about a 30* angle to the solar axis.
If the woman’s head wasn’t turned, she would staring directly into the sun.
dave t –
That presupposes that the inhabitants of the modern state of Israel had some connection with that land prior to it’s foundation. Aside from the religious claim – (which given that animosity to the caliphate here, shouldn’t really be considered a political basis for a claim to nationality) there’s not much to associate the Jewish dispora with Israeli nationality.
My forebearers were Norman. On that basis I can’t simply claim French citzenship and turf some poor Breton sod off his land to make way for me.
The moral justification for the Israeli state in my mind was the need for a safe community for those victims of the holocaust, who shouldn’t have been asked to return to their oppressors and live amongst them, if they chose not to. The moral justification for that community, however, didn’t extend to the ousting of other occupants of that land, and certainly doesn’t extend to grabbing land outside the borders of Israel.
The issue of refugees/historical ethnic cleansing is an area that Israelis can’t justify on moral grounds, and can’t be avoid simply on the grounds of ‘winner takes all’ – there’s no winners in that game.
al, if you cared to peruse the archive here at b-bbc you would see countless examples of institutional anti-Israel bias at the BBC. Typically, they will not challenge the Hezbollah account of events, treating any spokesperson with gloves, while grilling to the bone any Israeli official, and questioning every single statement emanating from Tel Aviv.
More seriously, if you consider their overall coverage of Muslim affairs, they systematically avoid mentioning any instance of Muslim oppressing Christians or Buddhists around the world (or if they mention the event, they don’t mention the motives of the perpetrators), or of hate crimes in this country involving Muslim.
Invariably, they will justify this bias by saying that it would inflame BNP sympathisers and stoke the flames of anti-Muslim feeling in the country.
Now, the serious point that a lot of people here are trying to make and that you seem intent on avoiding with your generic statements is that the BBC admits a correlation between what they could be reporting (and don’t) and the possible effect on white racists.
But exactly by the same argument, they should be aware that their biased pro-Muslim reporting across the board does in fact help ‘radicalise’ young Muslims.
I’ve stopped watching the BBC, and only occasionally watch stuff online. I always turn it off after a few minutes because the bias is just unbelievable.
I come away thinking: gosh, if I was a Muslim and the BBC was my only (or main) source of information, I’d become radicalised myself!
That’s why at this moment in time the BBC are behaving irresponsibly. They have contributed moulding (if not directly moulded) a political discourse where Israel is *always* wrong and the faults on the Muslim side are *always* glossed over.
It takes a hell of an effort to get away from this frame of mind that has been manufactured by the BBC over the years. Every time I discuss ME politics with friends, it takes me ages to correct their factual inaccuracies about the history of the area and when I ask how they got the story so wrong, they always cite the BBC (or the Independent…).
I honestly don’t think it is an exaggeration to say that the BBC are, to a pretty substantial degree, responsible for 7/7 and for the recent foiled plot.
And as I say, they can’t say there isn’t a correlation between news filtering and violence, given that the only justification they give for withdrawing negative news about Muslim as oppressors is that they fear it would inflame racism. They can’t have it both ways. Either biased news inflame hearts and minds or it doesn’t. If it doesn’t, then they should stop buying the ‘our brothers and sisters are oppressed by the West all over the world’. If it does, then they should stop their bias and stop inflaming Muslim opinion by their one-sided reporting.
Do you get what I am saying? Can you stop for a while playing the detached liberal who can’t even see beyond his haughty nose? Try it for once, you might be surprised…
Sorry for the long rant, but I’ve had enough of ‘reasonable’ defences of the BBC.
They have a lot to answer for, and hopefully one day they will.
“Britain is now “UK””
You DO understand the distinction? Britian was never the UK. The beeb can’t change that fact.
al | 16.08.06 – 6:41 pm | #
England & Wales +_ Scotland = Great Britain
Great Britain + Northetn Ireland = United Kingdom
However there is no “UK Army” however for EU purposes there is a “UK”
http://www.padav.demon.co.uk/englishregions.htm
http://tinyurl.com/cf3uk
The UK is divided into 12 Regions (NUTS) – Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland + 12 Regions in what used to be called “England” but no longer exists as a state rather as 12 separate “Regions”
That is why the term “UK” is politically loaded simply because the word “Britain” or “British” disappears because there is no “England”
They speak of “UK Army” because they cannot say “British Army” when there is no “England”
al(jazeera):
“Neither you, nor I know how many Hizbullah fighters were killed”
The IDF figure conservatively puts it at around 500 and methink it’s more reliable than either beebs or aljazzeeras
So with al we eventually get to the inevitable connection of being a BBC supporter & an Israel opposer.
Ain’t it funny how it is always so?
al
Try stepping away from Planet Stupid for a minute.
1. We know that Hezballah use civilian human shields as a mainstay battlefield tactic. The fact we’re having this civilian vs Heballah deaths debate illustrates the moral and ethical gulf between Israel and Hezballah.
2. Even if all 1108 Lebanese deaths are civilian (as opposed to terrorist), given the vast amounts of ordnance dropped on Lebanon, much of it in urban areas, that figure is low.
3. Strategy Page is stating that Hezballah suffered about 600 deaths. I’ll go along with that. If even roughly correct, the civilian casualty rate is remarkably low.
4. Your post at 7.54pm illustrates you know fuck all about how Israel was born. Stop now and avoid further embarrassment.
The issue of refugees/historical ethnic cleansing is an area that Israelis can’t justify on moral grounds…
al | 16.08.06 – 7:54 pm
Israel doesn’t have to justify it, because its a lie. See here:
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=18072
pedant – Bravo!
Al
“Demonstrably the IDF/IAF targeting was not what it should have been”
What should it have been then? In an ideal world, perfect of course. But this was a war, information and technology is not perfect so perhaps a small number of mistakes were made. Compare this to the targeting in any other way in history and the amazing thing is how accurate the targeting was.
But the bigger point is that while Israel did everything in its power to avoid civilian casualties, Hez did everything in its power to cause them, both Lebanese and Israeli. Where is your outrage about the total lack of targeting of the Hez missiles? Well, they was some targeting, they were deliberately aimed at civilians in cities!
Perhaps someone here can tell us how many hez missiles were fired, EVERY ONE aimed at civilians.
J.G.:
Perhaps someone here can tell us how many hez missiles were fired, EVERY ONE aimed at civilians.
J.G. | 16.08.06 – 8:26 pm
AND loaded with ball bearings.
http://hrw.org/english/docs/2006/07/18/lebano13760_txt.htm
Lebanon: Hezbollah Rocket Attacks on Haifa Designed to Kill Civilians
Anti-personnel Ball Bearings Meant to Harm ?Soft? Targets
(New York, July 18, 2006) ? Hezbollah’s attacks in Israel on Sunday and Monday were at best indiscriminate attacks in civilian areas, at worst the deliberate targeting of civilians. Either way, they were serious violations of international humanitarian law and probable war crimes, Human Rights Watch said today.
In addition, the warheads used suggest a desire to maximize harm to civilians. Some of the rockets launched against Haifa over the past two days contained hundreds of metal ball bearings that are of limited use against military targets but cause great harm to civilians and civilian property. The ball bearings lodge in the body and cause serious harm.
Hezbollah has reportedly fired more than 800 rockets into Israel from southern Lebanon over the past five days, killing 12 civilians and wounding many more. The vast majority of these rockets, as in past conflicts, have been Katyushas, which are small, have a range limited to the border area, and cannot be aimed with precision. Hezbollah has also fired some rockets in the current fighting that have landed up to 40 kilometers inside Israel.
?Attacking civilian areas indiscriminately is a serious violation of international humanitarian law and can constitute a war crime,? said Sarah Leah Whitson, director of the Middle East and North Africa division at Human Rights Watch. ?Hezbollah?s use of warheads that have limited military use and cause grievous suffering to the victims only makes the crime worse.?
On Monday, Human Rights Watch researchers inspected a three-story apartment building in Haifa’s Bat Galim neighborhood after it was struck by a rocket around 3:00 p.m., causing extensive damage to the top two floors and wounding six residents, one of them seriously. They collected metal ball bearings that had pierced the walls of the apartment building across the street and car windshields up to one block away.
[image]
read the rest…
Well, they was some targeting, they were deliberately aimed at civilians in cities!
J.G. | 16.08.06 – 8:21 pm
Furthermore, the fact that the warheads on the rockets were packed with ball bearings proves beyond a shoadow of a doubt that hizbollox intended to target civilians.
I have even seen suggestions that the ball bearings are soaked in rat poison before packing.
J.G.
According to Strategy Page, ‘nearly 4000’:
http://www.strategypage.com/qnd/israel/articles/20060816.aspx
That’s nearly 4000 war crimes. Nearly 4000 transgressions of the Geneva Conventions. Nearly 4000 abuses of the laws of war. Nearly 4000 explicit acts of terror.
I hear that Kofi Annan was almost moved to write a sternly worded letter of protest.
Thats it, 4000 war crimes. Repeat, 4000 war crimes.
Why is Orla not screaming for an investigation? Why isn’t the BBC? Where are the UN investigators? Where are the war crimes trials?
4000 war crimes and the BBC is silent.
those ball bearings give the false impression that they would scatter like a shotgun blast – relatively low radius, and low velocity.
not entirely – there are reports that they have the velocity of high powered rifle – and can actually kill someone over 1/2 kilometre away.
and theres about 40,000 per missile.
Pete London:
I hear that Kofi Annan was almost moved to write a sternly worded letter of protest.
In the style of “Team America”
Kofi Anan: Mr. Nasrallah, I was supposed to be allowed to inspect your rockets today, but your guards won’t let me enter certain areas.
Nasrallah: Kofi, Kofi, Kofi! We’ve been frew this a dozen times. I don’t have any wockets wiv bawwbearings in ’em, OK Kofi?
Kofi Anan: Then let me look around, so I can ease the UN’s collective mind. I’m sorry, but the UN must be firm with you. Let me in, or else.
Nasrallah: Or else what?
Kofi Anan: Or else we will be very angry with you… and we will write you a letter, telling you how angry we are.
Nasrallah: OK, Kofis. I’ll show you. Stand to your reft.
Kofi Anan: [Moves to the left]
Nasrallah: A rittle more.
Kofi Anan: [Moves to the left again]
Nasrallah: Good.
[Opens up trap, Kofi falls in]
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4800053.stm
“Leader: France”
a country that nearly voted a virulent anti-semite into office.
“Likely contributors: Italy, Turkey, Malaysia, Indonesia”
italy – hmm… the mere mention of “italian army” doesnt give one an enormous amount of confidence.
turkey – secular muslim , but with a strong islamist party
malaysia – muslim, greeted Iranian president as a “rock star” recently.
indonesia – muslim – implementing sharia law in Aceh. has a big Jihadist problem.
oh dear. this isnt going to work out is it?
A little OT….
Video:
Israel’s Mossad interrogates a Hezbollah terrorist.
Archduke:
A must see for you…Nazi salutes on video (one of three).
Hezbollah: Coming Soon To Your Hometown.
Orla’s loathing of Israel is no secret, even to the clueless BBC management. By allowing her to cover this, they seemed to be openly declaring their bias, or else showing a ridiculous lack of judgement.
Either way, the upshot of their silly stunt is that one of the Beeb’s most ‘respected’ hacks is now being openly and publicly called a liar all over the world. Nobody seems to be mincing their words about her behaviour, because the dishonesty is palpable.
No doubt the BBC will celebrate that as a Glorious Victory, after the fashion of their Hizbollah clients.
How Orla Guerin Ruined My Afternoon; or, BBC Bias Exposed
In the long run, the BBC’s willful blindness to its external clientele, will be its downfall.
A few more 7/7’s and there will be no more market for weapy leftists who grovel at the feet of muslims.
Once a tory government is elected, it will be quite simple to snip the telly tax or just fail to increase it. Slowly the BBC will be choked.
Market Participant writes:
“Once a tory government is elected, it will be quite simple to snip the telly tax or just fail to increase it. Slowly the BBC will be choked.”
Slightly OT:
Sadly, not under the idiotic Cameron and his legion of the undead – Letwin, Willetts et al, who look about as likely to grapple with the socialist hegemony of the BBC as…oh, I dunno… as they are to ..umm.. win an election?
Forget the Tories. The day they elected David Cameron, they threw away the keys to their future. The BBC has to be reformed. Britain needs change. Under Cameron, the former is impossible, because he is a product of the media’s pressure for a ‘pretty Tory’. The latter is impossible because all he offers is ZaNuLabourLite.
reith
Have I missed it – or have you been piling in to defend Orla Guerin’s lies ? To explain why we are all wrong about all the false photography ? About why Feargal Keane is a super war journalist ? About how Jeremy Bowen is misunderstood ? About why Hugh Sykes is the world’s best restaurant critic ? About where the hell is John Simpson most of the time (costing us half a million a year), why can’t he manage more than one report a week ? About how come Kirsty Wark faints in the presence of Ialamofascists ? About John Humphrys’ aggression towards Ialamic spokesmen?
That is – aside from all your posts I must have missed defending the media’s dumb acceptance of event-staging, of ghoulish baby-mauling, of ghoulish child-corpse-placing, of all the damnable staging, of all the “rescue workers” with nil dust on their clothes, of all the “hey !here’s a dustless Mickey Mouse”, of the BBC’s World Affairs Editor John Simpson standing there like a prat next to Green Helmet Man who had been infamous worldwide for many days.
well, bloodless reith
I am proud to have coined the tag Feargal “CryMeARiver” Feargal – to nail his emoting crap.
And I am proud to have used my “urban myth-creator” tag JohninLondon to get the Orla Guerin disgrace posted at LGF – because that is the name I had to register at LGF 2 years ago as a commenter when they were closing down their commenter list.
Charles Johnson at LGF is worth many dozen BBC “journalists”. He covers more stories per day, he has CRACKED more stories than most BBC staff have done in their whole career.
reith – you claim to be a JOURNALIST.
Why should we believe you. What have you ever done – except whinge here ? Have you ever been used on a major story ? Or are you just a BBC stooge ?
reith
spin on this :
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=22119_Leading_BBC_Reporter_Caught_Lying#comments
and this :
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=22138_Orla_Guerin-_You_People_Are_All_the_Same#comments
and try this – you have never commented on photo-staging by ghouls :
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=22123_Green_Helmet_Admits_Staging_Photos_AP_Spins_Furiously#comments
and how about one of the BBC’s welcome guests who never has his evil words shoved right back down his evil throat ?:
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=22122_Islamic_Supremacist_on_Tucker_Carlson#comments
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=22127_Azzam_Tamimi_Uncensored#comments
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=22136_Azzam_Tamimis_Duplicity_Exposed#comments
There is now a Fifth Estate
It is the public, blogging or commenting on the Fourth Estate.
In the BBC’s case, the bloated and biased Fourth Estate.
reith – or Paul Reynolds, for that matter
Why does the BBC keep having this evil man as a guest – without playing back his evil words ?
Why do we have to get his words from a US source ?
Why isn’t the BBC trackijng this evil man 24/7 with camera and microphone ?
When will the BBC start doing some real journalism about the evil in out midst ?
[audio src="http://www.moonbatwars.com/images/Timmini_on_NPR.mp3" /]
1. We know that Hezballah use civilian human shields as a mainstay battlefield tactic. The fact we’re having this civilian vs Heballah deaths debate illustrates the moral and ethical gulf between Israel and Hezballah.
Well that is an obvious tactic as it siting artillery near hospitals or using ambulances to carry munitions. It is so obvious that no to do it would be remarkable stupidity on the part of Hezbollah.
So why the fuss ?
When they do that they are still targets and these locations can be destroyed. Even the Geneva Conventions accept this.
You’re right, Rick. In fact the Geneva Convention goes even further and says that the deliberate placing of heavy weapons (such as rocket launchers) amongst civilian populations is a war crime. Don’t expect al-BBC to ever mention that fact even though they apparently care about the Geneva Convention when it comes to whining about islamofascist terrorists banged up in Gitmo.
Rick –
You can’t be that stupid. Why the fuss? Well you seem pretty cool with the idea. Civilians killed at the hands of Hezballah, loaded in and out of ambulances repeatedly, child corpses on display so the photographers can get a better image – be cool, baby, it would just be stupid not to, eh?
dumbcisco
*If* you are JohninLondon, you changed your handle here in response to being roundly condemned for writing in your own name, John Anderson, to John Band’s (formerly of SBBS) employers with a rather nasty little note threatening a great expose of his blogging to your clients.
Incidentally, I’m sure your clients would be most understanding of your membership of LGF, although I’ve no urge to replicate your little piece of blackmail.
Your spiteful and rather childish little act was noted here and elsewhere and it’s no surprise to see you’ve weaselled your way back here under a different moniker: your credibility was shot.
To Natalie – if dumbcisco is indeed JiL, are you condoning the behaviour of commenters seeking out one another’s employers and pressurising them? If not, please can you do the right thing and ban him. His petty-mindedness is the last thing this blog needs if it is to be a forum for frank exchange of political views.
Mick in the UK:
Checked out the “Hezbollah soon to your hometown” vid. Scary stuff.
I love the comments that people post on these videos. Funniest one was:
y guys r stupid isreal shouldnt even exist hitler should have killed them all neways hezbollah well finish the job (with gods help)..hammers2006 thanx for defending muslims (its ur duty) but thanx well death to america and death to isreal and all muslim haters ..allah w akbar …by the way islam is the fastest growin religion in the world. ya imam ali yaa hussain ya aba fadlel abbas ALLAH WA AKBAR
Gotta love those freedom fighters…
dumbcisco/JohninLondon is clearly off his meds in any case. Sheesh, the frothing!
Anon,
For someone who “naming names” you are remarkably anonymous.
Perhaps first removing the mote from your own eye before making accusations would be a good first effort.
Also this blog only bans people who spam the board, and does not follow the censorship inherent in the left.
[i]al
Try stepping away from Planet Stupid for a minute.
1. We know that Hezballah use civilian human shields as a mainstay battlefield tactic. The fact we’re having this civilian vs Heballah deaths debate illustrates the moral and ethical gulf between Israel and Hezballah.
[/i]
Well, we’re told this by the Israelis, but it’s normal enough for a guerilla/insurgency/paramilitary organisation to operate without uniforms, and given the fact that they are/were fighting in southern Lebanon – with a civilian population – where do draw the line between ‘using civilian human shields’ and simply fighting from an area with civilians in it?
[i]
2. Even if all 1108 Lebanese deaths are civilian (as opposed to terrorist), given the vast amounts of ordnance dropped on Lebanon, much of it in urban areas, that figure is low.
[/i]
I guess we should be grateful for small mercys.
[i]3. Strategy Page is stating that Hezballah suffered about 600 deaths. I’ll go along with that. If even roughly correct, the civilian casualty rate is remarkably low.[/i]
Well believe whatever figure you like. That’s more than the IDF claim however, and I doubt anyone but Hizbullah themselves actually know.
[i]4. Your post at 7.54pm illustrates you know fuck all about how Israel was born. Stop now and avoid further embarrassment.[/i]
Well that’s your opinion, but; A. I really couldn’t give a shit what you think, and; B. I’m well versed in the history of the Zionist movement, the foundation of the state, and it’s history post ’48. Thanks for playing though.
For someone who “naming names” you are remarkably anonymous.
Perhaps first removing the mote from your own eye before making accusations would be a good first effort.
Can’t help noting that you’re pretty anonymous yourself there ‘AntiCitizenOne’.
I recall this whole JohninLondon incident too. The ‘accusation’ is well founded (assuming dumbcisco is the same man).
Gee, AntiCitizone one (was that your christened name, incidentally?), why on earth might I want to post anonymously?
Incidentally, JiL’s behaviour is well documented. Still, I’m sure censorship is just a leftish thing. I’m convinced already that JiL was merely following a leftish tactic. Thanks for the clarity.
If you’re comfortable endorsing someone who sees nothing wrong in blackmailing your employers over what you post, feel free.
Al:
Hezbollah firing missilse from Qana: Human Shields
Terrorists use civilians as human shields
Palestian terrorists using children as human shields
where do draw the line between ‘using civilian human shields’ and simply fighting from an area with civilians in it?
The difference is that have a choice where to fire their rockets from. There’s plenty of open space around.
No matter how you justify the strategic benefits of using civilian areas as a base for attacks, it doesn’t change what it is. A human shield is a human shield.
The use of this tactic characterizes a typical flagrant disregard for human life. Israel on the other hand goes to great lengths to avoid civilian casualties whenever possible and considers it a failure when a civilian is killed.
matt –
No matter how you justify the strategic benefits of using civilian areas as a base for attacks, it doesn’t change what it is. A human shield is a human shield.
Em, your first two videos show Hizbullah fighters either taking cover in a built up area, or launching rockets from a built up area. Neither proves the accusation of ‘human shields’. The third video isn’t even Hizbullah.
“feel free”: anon
I will. If you won’t repeat what John Band said to get himself sacked then why even bother?
Anonymous, here are arab terrorists using children as human shields.
Orla is becoming notorious:
http://www.honestreporting.co.uk/articles/critiques/BBCs_Orla_Exposed.asp
“They came to mock me….”
al –
Well thanks for that. As long as I know where you’re coming from. Left wing creeps often try to weasel their way through a thread without being honest on their views.
Freedom for the men who thinks its right to beat their wives, eh?!
dumbcisco –
Was that you? Were/are you JohninLondon? If so, then GOOD WORK FELLA!!
AntiCitizenOne
He wasn’t sacked – although he could have been. He did shut down his blog though, under duress.
Band was known for his coarse style and irreverent treatment of foreign policy. John Anderson decided to write to Band’s employers claiming he was an advocate of assassinations.
Quite apart from the fact that Anderson omitted to mention whether Band was being serious or not when he wrote about assassination – and it’s far more likely he wasn’t – Anderson’s complaint derived from his dislike of Band’s comments here and at Harry’s Place in the days previously.
The fact that Anderson posted comments regularly at LGF, where calls for genocide of Arabs and assassination of various figures are neither uncommon nor especially shocking to regular readers shows fairly clearly that Anderson didn’t give a damn about what Band had actually written, but was looking to take a minor online spat and use it to, effectively, blackmail him.
That Anderson’s clients would almost certainly drop him entirely were the same smear tactics repeated to him is another matter entirely.
Em, your first two videos show Hizbullah fighters either taking cover in a built up area, or launching rockets from a built up area. Neither proves the accusation of ‘human shields’. The third video isn’t even Hizbullah.
Well that’s open to interpretation. As far as I’m concerned launching rockets from civilian populated built up areas is fairly conclusive evidence of using civilians as shields.
And I did say in the link that it was Palestinian terrorists, not HB. But as far as I’m concerned one Islamo-fascist terrorist organisation is much the same as any other when it comes to fighting dirty, and nothing throughout this conflict has shown me otherwise.
pete –
Freedom for the men who thinks its right to beat their wives, eh?!
Yeah yeah. Pointing out the wide open flaws in your rhetoric makes me a fanboy for your strawman misanthrope. Whatever.
You’re obviously a cookie-cutter idiot who sees commie and islamic peril at every turn. You’ll have to forgive my inability to take you seriously.
matt –
as I’m concerned one Islamo-fascist terrorist organisation is much the same as any othe
It keeps things simple for you eh?