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DEBKAfile Exclusive: The Sword of Islam (al Qaeda) kidnapped and is holding BBC reporter Alan Johnston
The only question now is will the BBC pay the ransom out of the licence fee or will the British government pay out of public funds?
Biodegradable | 14.03.07 – 5:55 pm
The point is you fail to condemn it
Uh?
I thought appalling and I share your revulsion would clearly express my condemnation.
But if that isn’t clear, lets be in no doubt: I condemn it.
Pointing out that there is fault on both sides of a conflict isn’t the same as drawing moral equivalence.
To a reasonable person, it shouldn’t even be controversial.
You will have come across the ‘Breaking the Silence’ group of former IDF soldiers?
a former Israeli soldier named Yehuda Shaul has just begun a tour of the United States to give an inside look at how the Israeli military treats Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza.
Shaul is a co-founder of Breaking the Silence – a group of former Israeli soldiers committed to exposing human rights abuses by the Israeli military.
Last year the group revealed that Israel soldiers had been ordered to open fire on unarmed Palestinians. The group has also gathered photographic evidence that proved Israeli soldiers have abused Palestinian corpses.
I thought appalling and I share your revulsion would clearly express my condemnation.
But if that isn’t clear, lets be in no doubt: I condemn it.
Pointing out that there is fault on both sides of a conflict isn’t the same as drawing moral equivalence.
Your condemnation is the same as the ‘condemnation’ we hear of suicide attacks from “Palestinain” leaders; they condemn all violence from ‘both sides’.
Attempting to respond to the teaching of hatred in PA schools by saying ‘the Jews do it too’ is moral equivalence and it’s false.
I have no problem blaming Israel for its real mistakes and laying blame where it’s appropriate, but that is very different from accepting your premise that both sides are equally at fault.
To a reasonable person, it shouldn’t even be controversial.
I am a reasonable person but as I’ve explained I don’t accept there is equal fault on both sides.
I believe any reasonable person would accept that “Palestinian” violence is aimed at killing as many Jews (of any age) as possible and eventualy driving all Jews out of “Palestine” (from the Jordan to the sea), while Israeli ‘violence’ is a direct result of that Arab aggression and only used in self-defence.
I am aware of ‘Breaking the Silence’. Is there a Palestinian equvalent?
thought not.
Now look at this and tell me honestly that these are people who care about a peaceful future for their children, people who want to live in peace in a ‘two state solution’ – people who deserve a state of their own.
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/pictures/PalestinianChildAbuse/
.
“How Many Jews Did Mama Kill?”
http://www.jihadwatch.org (14 Mar.)
Alan | 14.03.07 – 6:54 pm
John Reith, Jenny Tonge, and Cherie Blair all say that Israel shares the blame for that. Call me unreasonable, but I don’t agree.
I was going to post the BBC article on celebs advising the government on military procurement, but someone beat me to it. Strange, I thought the BBC was in the vanguard of ‘serious’ commentators bemoaning the ‘celebrity culture’.
Still, when they support your views and aims let’s get them on board – the proles are more likely to listen to Annie Lennox than some ex- (or not even ex-) Communists.
“What do you have to do to be called “the Religion of Peace?” Well, killing a few thousand people apparently works wonders”.
Islam on Trial: The Prosecution’s Case against Islam
http://www.gamla.org.il/english/article/2007/march/g7.htm
‘John Reith’: ‘…yeah but no but yeah but..’ quickly followed by ‘..and now the Chewy defence….’
Give it up.
John Reith;
Can you understand how, having read your recent comments, I don’t give a damn whether Alan Johnson lives or dies?
He, and you, and Orla Guerin, and Jeremy Bowen, and Barbara Plett et. al. are all part of the problem and bear a large part of the blame for encouraging children to go to their deaths.
Anonymous:
“What do you have to do to be called “the Religion of Peace?” Well, killing a few thousand people apparently works wonders”.
Current score:
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/index.html#Attacks
John Reith:
I can’t say I’m as surprised as you often seem to be at the hatred many Palestinians feel towards Israelis.
I am also not surprised, as you rarely seem to acknowledge, at the hatred most Palestinians feel towards the West in general; democracy; woman’s liberation; freedom to speak and criticise one’s own government, institution, leaders and religion; the pursuit of happiness; art, music and cinema … in short just about everything that makes life in the West preferable to life in Palestine.
That of course doesn’t stop them from taking advantage of every service Israel and the West offers them.
Biodegradable,
“Most seem to believe that Islam needs to be “secularized” for peace and freedom to come to the Middle East. Frankly, this is just a politically correct way to say Islam is the problem.
Whether you believe Islam has to be “secularized” or eradicated, the simple fact remains that Islam is the problem. Until we are willing to prosecute Islam as a violent religion: our war on terror will never end”.
The jury is out. May all those with a rational mind judge accordingly.
http://www.gamla.org.il/english/article/2007/march/g7.htm
Even when the BBC talks about the Holocaust it introduces an element of doubt with the occasional ‘alleged’ or ‘it is thought’ or ‘some believe’
& as we know these caveats are very necessary in criminal matters.
But no beating about the bush for
Orla in her BBC1 6pm News report.
Tsvangirai WAS beaten by the police
Another protester WAS killed by the police.
Orla manages to spot this from hundreds of miles away in Johannesburg. Remarkable how certain can be the BBC when it so wishes.
For decades, the Arab and Islamic worlds have at best sat silently and at worst given political and religious sanction to a campaign of terrorist violence waged against Israeli civilians. Suicide bombers hitting markets and cafes? Machine gunning civilians on a religious holiday? Dehumanizing people on the basis of religious or ethnic differences?
http://www.mysanantonio.com/opinion/stories/MYSA031407.2O.gurwitz.27346e1.html
“And when Mr Mason got the chance to ask Mr Miliband a question he wondered if the government was ready to follow Australia’s lead and ban, outright all energy inefficient, filament light bulbs.”
“The minister spoke about the need to get EU agreements on things like this – leaving the youngster decidedly underwhelmed.”
“He dodged the question really. I know this is a difficult situation and there are always going to be people who lose out from what you do, through job losses or lifestyle changes”
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6243803.stm
No he didn’t dodge the question – he partly answered it – but if he had told the truth he would have said to Mr. Mason that “we cannot do anything without the permission of the unelected burecrats in Brussels”
The BBC commentator should have made this clear even if Milliband didn’t
“Stretching the Truth” (cartoon)
http://www.coxandforkum.com/ (13 Mar.)
“I’ve just been to get my car out of the carpark and was listening to the 5 Live News. How about this for warped news priorities…
FIRST ITEM
Blue Peter presenters apologise for phone cock up
SECOND ITEM
MPs vote on Britain’s independent nuclear deterrent
Bizarre.”
http://www.iaindale.blogspot.com/
the backlash is starting…
http://www.sadireland.com
nice slogan:
“Freedom Of Choice Should Never Become A Radical Idea In A Democratic Society”
the backlash part 2:
“lets smoke everywhere”
http://sadireland.proboards46.com/index.cgi?board=bans&action=display&thread=1171891454
25th anniversary of the Falklands war is coming up.
Came across a couple of choice quotes on the wikipedia history of the war.
“The destruction of Sheffield had a profound impact on the British public, bringing home the fact that the “Falklands Crisis”, as the BBC News put it, was now an actual ‘shooting war’.”
“In his autobiographical account of the Falklands War[19], Admiral Woodward blames the BBC World Service for these changes to the bombs. The World Service reported the lack of detonations after receiving a briefing on the matter from an MOD official. He describes the BBC as being more concerned with being “fearless seekers after truth” than with the lives of British servicemen”.
Suppose some things never change.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falklands_War
Seen this yet?????????
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/03/14/nbbc114.xml
“The BBC has announced plans to suspend its £150 million online education service, BBC Jam, following claims it is damaging the interests of industry competitors.”
Odd in’it. I geus it’s ok for the BBC to use Tax money to attack Sky and ITV ratings???….and distort the Radio market so that effectively all we have is the BBC or TalkSport?…….
Never…BBC destorts the real world? Using it’s monopoly position to attack and even destroy UK business?….smart shopping Britain…LOLOLOL>…
“Tuesday, March 13, 2007
MEP asks Scotland Yard to investigate BBC relations with EU
The Metropolitan Police have today (13 March) received a bundle of papers from Ashley Mote MEP, Independent, SE England, detailing the tens of millions of euros received by the BBC over recent years.
He has invited Deputy Assistant Commissioner John Yates, Director of Intelligence at Scotland Yard, to review the BBC’s sources and application of funds, excluding the licence fee. The police have been asked to examine the evidence linking the EU as a source of these funds with the BBC’s open support of the EU in its editorial coverage, contrary to its obligations under the Royal Charter.”
http://libertyandlawjournal.blogspot.com/2007_03_01_archive.html#1549519323856625431
Compare and contrast.
BBC Wednesday, 14 March 2007, 20:22 GMT:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6451589.stm
The unity government deal, reached last month, contains a promise to respect previous Israeli-Palestinian agreements, but does not explicitly recognise Israel, as has been demanded by Western donors and the Israelis.
(obligatory anti-USA/anti-Israel bottom line follows)
A US-led ban on financial aid has crippled the Palestinian Authority since Hamas won elections in January last year.
New York Times February 10, 2007
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/10/world/middleeast/10palestinians.html?ei=5088&en=e549da58de850c27&ex=1328763600&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&pagewanted=print
As for recognizing Israel, Nizar Rayyan, a Hamas spokesman, was explicit. “We will never recognize Israel,” he told Reuters in Gaza. “There is nothing called Israel, neither in reality nor in the imagination.”
The Palestinian Authority’s president, Mahmoud Abbas of Fatah, pressed by Washington, wanted a new government to accept previous agreements on the basis of which the Palestinian Authority itself exists. But Hamas, which will still dominate the new government, agreed only to “respect” previous agreements, not to accept them.
Covering for the genocidal terrorists, it’s what we do!
More on the UNESCO (not ‘the UN’ as the BBC would like us to believe) report I commented on earlier with a link to the full report:
The six page report has good background info, acknowledges Israeli transparency and notes that no holy sites are undermined by the work. However, it concludes that the digging should stop. Here’s why:
http://backspin.typepad.com/backspin/2007/03/if_youve_been_w.html
“and distort the Radio market so that effectively all we have is the BBC or TalkSport?…….”
go over to Ireland. yeah, i know RTE has a license fee too, but its also advertising funded. but i swear to god , the radio selection is incredible.
where i was, i counted about 15 FM stations – not to mention the 10 other illegal pirate ones – in a town of about 100,000 people.
i’m in an southern English town now – similar size. and we have just the one local private radio station. one.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6168752.stm
More than a third of the Jewish settlements in the West Bank are built on privately owned Palestinian land, an Israeli campaign group has reported.
Peace Now says nearly 40% of the land the settlements sit on is, according to official data, “effectively stolen” from Palestinian landowners.
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?c=JPArticle&cid=1173823735051&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
A military database released to the left-wing anti-settlement organization Peace Now under court pressure shows that very little private land was seized from Palestinians to build Israel’s largest West Bank settlement, the watchdog group reported on Wednesday.
The new numbers are vastly smaller than numbers Peace Now issued in a November report based on leaked information.
In November, Peace Now claimed that 86 percent of Ma’aleh Adumim was built on private Palestinian land. After successfully petitioning the court to see the database, the group reported Wednesday that data show that only 0.5% of the settlement was built on private land.
Expect the BBC to publish a correction any time now…
some time soon…
I’m sure it won’t be long…
…
Biodegradable,
Good rebuttals of John Reith’s mealy-mouthed attempts to put the state of Israel on a par with the Palestinian terrorist nest.
Reith is typical BBC. As a contrast, a Johannesburg radio station run by liberal-left South Africans has opened an offshoot in Ramallah and claims to want to help bring Israelis and Palestinians together, eventually through the medium of talk radio. Even though its newscasts are heavily slanted towards the Palestinians, it’s still capable of coming up with some refreshing honesty. This from today:
The BBC says it is urgently trying to find its reporter, Alan Johnston. There has been widespread condemnation of the abduction of the BBC reporter. Ultra-radical faction Islamic Jihad has expressed its “profound regret” over the kidnapping which, it said, “tarnishes the reputation of the resistance.”
Though that still falls far short of calling them terrorists, I can’t imagine the BBC ever describing Islamic Jihad in those terms.
The station then lets a Palestinian reporter, Amer Shelebi, have his say:
We appeal to these people who kidnapped the journalist to release him and not to do it again. It’s not in any way helping their cause, if they have a cause, and not helping the Palestinian people.
Nothing, of course, about kidnapping being just plain evil.
I meant to add that I agree with comment s on this thread that the BBC, for some weird reason, is using bizarre terminology re the “missing” Johnston. The BBC is “trying to find him” as if he is a child who may have run away from home.
Bryan,
Do you think there’s any truth in the Debkafile report I linked to suggesting that it’s al-Qaeda that has Johnston?
if that is the case, and from what I’ve read about al-Qaeda actually declaring war on both Fatah and Hamas, then Johnston maybe in for a long wait, or even a beheading.
“..then Johnston maybe in for a long wait, or even a beheading.”
I honestly hope that does not happen – He may spout pro-hamas propoganda, but I would not like to see anyone harmed. There could be two outcomes (if he is realised _ and I do hope he is). 1. He may now understand that even trying to appease these terrorists is futile or 2. He just carries on as usual possibly with a Hamas bodyguard to look after him while he spouts his anti-Isreali clap-trap. I suspect the latter.
Sorry Rob that was me 😉
Yes JR…..why do the great and the good get more of a say on national security and defence than say former NATO commanders,military historians or even your own (and excellent) Mark Urban?
http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6450339.stm
Obviously a disappointing night for you with the result
http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6448173.stm?dynamic_vote=ON#vote_trident_renew_march_2007
Oh I’am sure that you will be keeping this on the boil:
http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6451615.stm
Shoddy sixth form politics from CBBC…..You really think I give a phuq about Vivian Westwood or Bianca Jagger,they (thank the heavens) don’t have to write little notes telling the sub commanders their last orders before we become an irradiated little feifdom.
The utterly soap oprea world that passes a “current affairs” is demeaning to the word “news”.Brian Waldron would of had both the Soviet and US ambasadors on Weekend World to discuss the deployment of SS 20’s or the SALT II treaty,now we are presented with the X Factor.
Thank Christ I have the option to stop paying you unlike the masses who you cheat money out of.
Next JR you will have us believing in soothsayer science……
Biodegradable,
I dunno, somehow I doubt that Debka report, but who knows? I have heard recently that Osama’s motley crew is in Gaza, but I’m with Jon here in that I don’t want Johnston to be harmed, even though it’s almost certain that he will carry on business as usual, like Frank Gardner, if he is released. If the BBC couldn’t learn from Gardner’s experience, there’s no reason why it would learn from that of Johnston.
There’ll just be more talk of a “tiny minority” of Arabs/Muslims bent on violent jihad.
Hmmm….I fear for Johnston.
I have noidea about the situation inside Gaza,but if Al Quieda are there then it makes sence in terms of the overall security situation.Judging by the types of operations in Chechenya and Iraq they are very adapt in taking over networks and with the MB over the boarder in Egypt then things might get dicey in the future…..
I’m beginning to think that Hamas and Fatah are loosing control over there “security apparatus” or groups like the Al Aqsa Martyrs,who are now seeking support from those with an interest in taking direct action against the zionists.
BTW Here is a little toy that you might enjoy:
http://www.globalincidentmap.com/home.php
Bryan and IngSoc,
I’m certainly not wishing any ill on Alan Johnston, I simply don’t care any more.
This is what led me to ask about Al-Qaeda:
http://www.debka.com/headline.php?hid=3922
The way I see it is if somebody who can be influenced by Palestinian leaders has Johnston there’s a good chance he’ll be ransomed and released because (a) it’s a source of income and (b) will favourably influence the infidels and Johnston will continue to effectively work for them (the Pals).
If Al-Qaeda have him they’re not interested in money and would much rather use his grisly death for PR among their own jihadi supporters.
Basically one outcome will possibly gain support and sympathy from ‘us’, while the other will gain support for Jihad. Depending on who’s holding him, or who he’s sold to it’s the hostage taker’s choice.
IngSoc, that map is v. interesting – I didn’t know about the Canadian arrested in Spain!
An observation about the climate “chaos” debate (apologies if that should have been ‘chaos’).
Consensus, and subsequent research focusing on only one paradigm, is a feature of social sciences, which has accepted the research philosophy of Kuhn (which it was not aimed at) that emphasises struggling towards an agreed premise until it breaks down rather than speading a wide net.
However, the hard sciences tend to follow Popper and can cope with premises that may be wrong but accurately describe our immediate world.
This philisophical difference may seem insignificant to most but if we recognise that social scientists rarely view the world through a blue spectrum things start to make more sense.
When asking for research grants it is a nice safe option to follow the current paradigm. The amusing thing is that is exactly what the l*f*y **** **** **** [self censored] accused scientists working for the so-called military industrial complex (you know it by the firms that provide real jobs) as doing.
/Dull rant over/
Peregrine – I quite agree – to me it is self evident that if you are in the pay of the politicians and they tell you to come up with “evidence” that GW is man made then that is exactly what you will get.
But think on this who has benefitted the “scientific community” – throughout the Industrial Revolution to the present day – it is of course business.
Were blast furnaces invented by government, or the steam locamotive, or the motor car?
http://drybonesblog.blogspot.com/2007/03/end-incitement.html
As it was then, so it is now.
As matter of interest does anyone on this thread actually believe that there are any decent law abiding muslims living in the UK – or do you believe they are ALL hell bent on destroying you, your neighbour and the UK?
Re:Lurker,
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
I think the time is ripe for Godwin to be amended with gratuitous accusations of islamophobia.
one thing i cant understand about the trident debate is – how come Australia doesnt need an atom bomb? or Germany? or Spain? or Italy?
what makes us so special that we need to spend 25 billion on trident? why not just pay the Yanks a bit of rent for protecton under their nuclear umbrella?
” A Lurker | 15.03.07 – 1:59 am”
about 99 per cent are entirely law abiding and dont cause me any problems. they live here because of our freedoms – makes a nice change from the totalitarian hellholes that are most Islamic states.
its the one per cent nutcases that we should put up against a wall and execute. the other 99 per cent would thank us for doing that.
More distortions by Matt Frei:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/6448133.stm
Then Ann Coulter, the leggy siren of the Republican right, told a Washington ballroom packed with GOP hacks that “you have to go into rehab if you use the word faggot”.
It was a cheap shot but the audience lapped it up.
Of course, if you go to Youtube and download the video of her jibe you can see that the audience reaction was mixed to say the least. “Rabid” righties like Michelle Malkin and Littlegreenfootballs have condemned Ms. Coulter for it as well.
But I suppose Matt just hears what he wants to hear.
Lots of Fiskable stuff in that article.
A Lurker:
actually believe that there are any decent law abiding muslims living in the UK – or do you believe they are ALL hell bent on destroying you, your neighbour and the UK?
I’m sure there are DLAMs* in the UK. I’m also sure their presence is as irrelevant as the majority of Germans who did not vote for Adolf Hitler.
As Edmund Burke is credited as saying, “All that is necessary for the forces of evil to triumph is for enough good men to do nothing.”
Someone said that 1% of Muslims are willing to actively make violent Jihad, 10% are willing to support them short of participation and the rest are sitting on their hands 🙁
————————————–
*DLAM = decent law abiding Muslim. Pronounce it as an Irishman, “The lion lies down with the lamb”.
Want proof that the moonbats at the bbc don’t know which end is up? Listen to the weather forecasters. All this week now they’ve been putting it about that it’s early spring! Well in the rest of the world the equinox isn’t until March 21st. I remember another famous instance of our loveable British “we’re right, the world’s wrong” thinking. Last year the Labour party held its “spring” conference in the middle of February, and the bbc never uttered a single word of correction.
>> in the rest of the world the equinox isn’t until March 21st
Ah, that’ll be global warming shifting the equinox probably 😉
Archduke:
“how come Australia doesnt need an atom bomb? or Germany? or Spain? or Italy”?
Who says they don’t need one?
The countries you mention above currently don’t as they fall under the US/NATO nuclear umbrella (which you have eluded to) BUT they do have the means (like Japan) to get a crash programme up and running in a very short space of time.
Anybody who reads military or political history will also be aware that events can change rapidly.
What is to say in 20 years time the US will not be our enemy?
Or that China won’t seek an imperialist policy or attempt to reincorperate the renagade state of Tiawan?
Or Russia won’t go belly-up and have a new strong man with global ambitions?
Because military/political science hasn’t developed the crystal ball to see what the future holds I personally think keeping the deterrent at least provides us with an insurance policy and some stability because carrying the big stick is still required when talking to some countries.
In the end of the day even Uncle Kim would think twice before “liberating” South Korea,knowing that Minutemen missiles are pointing at your house.
On the climate change debate, Hugh Fitzgerald observes:
“Unless he is already well-versed in the field, a reader cannot possibly make much sense of what is written, and is most likely to have to contend himself with trying to detect or figure out what appears, by its presentation, to have written by sensible, measured, careful people, and what appears to be something else..”
Fitzgerald presents lots of information relating to Channel 4’s documentary, for and against, at:
http://www.newenglishreview.org/blog.cfm?frm=1952
(see entries at 14,15 March.)
Here is a good article from American Thinker
http://www.americanthinker.com/2007/03/irans_three_hairline_cracks.html
All is not well in the utopia of the Islamic Republic of Iran so it seems.
“I was responsible for the 9/11 operation, from A to Z,” said Khalid Sheikh Mohammed in a partial transcript from a closed-door hearing.
One would think that this confession, in and of itself, would be enough to put the tin lid on the affair. Oh no – not in the parallel universe of the BBC. Not even a stone-cold confession is enough to dispel the dreaded quotation marks:
“Key 9/11 suspect ‘admits guilt'”
To the BBC, he’s still a mere “suspect” – despite having admitted planning the whole damn thing!