Please use this thread for off-topic, but preferably BBC related, comments. Please keep comments on other threads to the topic at hand. N.B. this is not an invitation for general off-topic comments – our aim is to maintain order and clarity on the topic-specific threads. This post will remain at or near the top of the blog. Please scroll down to find new topic-specific posts.
While I’m here, a little plug for my next post coming up in a few minutes. It’s about the BBC’s readiness to entertain a foolish anti-Israeli conspiracy theory about the Entebbe raid. My view is that, given that we have had thirty-plus years of Palestinian terrorism, I would really need rather a lot of evidence to take seriously the claim that what appeared to be Palestinian terrorism was actually a plot concocted in secret alliance with its apparent victims. Unlike the BBC who report this claim seriously ‘cos some guy said it.
I am equally sceptical and for the same reason of the claims made by some commenters below that Alan Johnston must have engineered his own kidnap because he apparently set out to meet his kidnappers. He was trying to get a story. That’s how Daniel Pearl was kidnapped, too. Palestinian/Islamist terrorists kidnapping people is not so rare an event as to require convoluted explanations.
And I’ve banned “the_camp_commandant” for nastiness on this subject unleavened by any trace of legitimate debate.
Not BBC bias.
The HYS on Putin’s sabre rattling is producing comments from the usual “anybody is preferable to the UK/US government” crowd.
I like this comment added to The Times edtorial by a Pole
Russia has no right to any sphere of influence. Nor has US, unless somebody wants to be influenced. The fact is many countries want to be affected by US, and very few by Russia. That’s because, historically, Russia has had only poverty and misgovernment to offer. There are no positive aspects to the Russian domination.
JR
Interestingly though it was Peres who had to give a history lesson to his BBC interlocutor. Clearly it was all new to this Beeboid, and contained basic facts (such as the non-existence of Palestine/Palestinians before 1967) that Bowen and co. NEVER choose to divulge to their audience.
Turkey ‘suicide raid kills three’
Nothing to do with self-exploding poultry:
Three people have been killed in a suicide attack on a military outpost in eastern Turkey, media and police say.
…
The attack comes amid speculation Turkey may launch an incursion into Iraq to tackle Kurdish rebels following recent rebel operations inside Turkey.
If the Turks do enter Iraqi territory it’ll be very interesting to see how the story is spun because it bears more than a little resemblance to last summer’s Israeli campaign against Hezballah in southern Lebanon.
So far in the reporting of the Lebanese army’s campaign against the terrorists in their “Palestinian camps” the words, massacre, disproportionate etc. have been conspicuous by their absence.
No mention of water either. :-/
Biodegradable | 04.06.07 – 12:38 pm
And no mention of the crippling effect on the political process of the rise of Islamist terror, that has made any ability to negotiate more impossible than ever.
Let’s face it we already know what would happen in the West Bank if the Israelis pulled out, because we’ve seen it happen in Gaza – a corrupt terror entity run by militias.
That would silence the BBC reporters because they wouldn’t dare go there – just like Gaza.
Oscar,
I’m ever more convinced that the BBC, like many in the UK, would like nothing better than to see the state of Israel and its Jews disappear from the face of the earth. In that highly unlikely event they wouldn’t need to go there. Gaza and the West Bank, “Palestine”, including what is now Israel, would simply become just another failed Arab state with nobody to blame but themselves.
Nothing to see there, move along…
If you haven’t already, see Melanie Phillips’ latest.
The war against the Jews
.
Re: Bryan | 04.06.07 – 10:48 am | #
——————————————————————————–
St George of London is broadly right, but he got the problem and solution slightly inverted – here’s my take on matters (of course I’ve paraphrased things a bit.)
“Added: Sunday, 3 June, 2007, 13:41 GMT 14:41 UK
The Palestinians have no business existing, it is that simple and whatever is done to encourage them to go is only to be expected. The Palestinians are the terrorists who have killed US and Israeli troops and people in order to steal Israel. Never will Palestine have a right to exist.
Imagine if they were trying to steal an area of land to make Palestine in England, and the UN with no right to do so accepts the attempted theft. Nothing would ever stop the fight back until they left our land alone for all time. Any means would be OK. No time limit.
William Wallace, Lanark, Lanarkshire”
Its a fact that ideas/concepts work both ways — so if its OK to question the right of Israel to exist and call for, support, plan and implement its destruction then it is also OK to apply it to the Palestinians.
As a wise man once said ‘be careful what you wish for’.
Frankly the simpler and safer option is to eliminate the Palestinians — getting rid of Israel could be done but most of the ME, North Africa and Central/Eastern Europe would be a wasteland afterwards.
Take your pick matey’s its getting close to the time for some pragmatic choices I think.
The ‘rooty, tooty, shooty’ phase of the ‘Global Civil War’ (it was never really a war on terror) is close to starting.
.
“There is still more madness to come. This week will see a rally in London by Israel-haters under the banner of ‘Enough’ on a platform entitled ‘The World Says No to Israeli Occupation’. The world does not apparently say ‘No’ to the planned genocide of the Jews by Iran. It apparently does not say ‘No’ to the aim to annihilate Israel and every Jew that is the policy of Hamas. On the contrary, the rally will broadcast a video message from the Palestinian Hamas Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh. This is what Hamas says in its Covenant”:
http://www.melaniephillips.com/diary/?p=1537
From Reith’s link ( 03.06.07 – 6:48 pm):
“Over 270 BBC journalists have signed a petition opposing the decision earlier this month by the UK’s largest trade union of journalists to boycott Israeli goods, saying they are “dismayed” at the passing of the motion.”
Let’s see – 270 out of 2,000 is 13.5%. Not a brilliant turnout. Has Orla Goering signed it? Or Babs “cry baby” Plett? What about Bowen? John Simpson?
getting rid of Israel could be done but most of the ME, North Africa and Central/Eastern Europe would be a wasteland afterwards.
Yes indeed.
They shouldn’t ever overlook The Samson Option.
It’s off-topic but I find this T-shirt most amusing:-
http://www.thoseshirts.com/imaoun.html
Gnasher:
Frankly the simpler and safer option is to eliminate the Palestinians …
The ‘rooty, tooty, shooty’ phase of the ‘Global Civil War’ (it was never really a war on terror) is close to starting.
And I’ve already got the babies and the old folks in the fall-out shelter with a truck-load of spam and beans.
It’s good to find a man not at all abashed by his own enthusiasm for a bloodbath.
Biased BBC: Code Red! Lock & Load!
I’m ever more convinced that the BBC, like many in the UK, would like nothing better than to see the state of Israel and its Jews disappear from the face of the earth. In that highly unlikely event they wouldn’t need to go there. Gaza and the West Bank, “Palestine”, including what is now Israel, would simply become just another failed Arab state with nobody to blame but themselves. Nothing to see there, move along…
Biodegradable | 04.06.07 – 1:15 pm
Yup – agreed – altho’ it would be worse than the average failed Arab state – more I think like Somalia. No more nice green lawns and first world buildings in Ramallah.
Another good nugget from Melanie Phillips – apparently it’s actually in the Koran that Israel is the divinely appointed homeland of the Jews! The relevant verses are provided on the Arabs for Israel website. That’s something those fundamentalists keep VERY quiet about …
The Islamic duty to respect Israel
http://www.melaniephillips.com/diary/?p=1531
I come back from my “rest” to discover hillhunt is posting so often his life has become a strange parody of South Park.
The World of Warcraft episode.
I doubt there is cartman and three friends to waste their life killing boars in order to stop him.
Oscar | 04.06.07 – 12:24 pm
I’m afraid this {time slots} is a very crude way of assessing bias.
John Reith
Time slots aren’t a way of assessing bias at all. But they are a way of assessing the impact of bias. It is self-evident that if a biased (or indeed unbiased) report is heard by millions of people it will have a greater impact than if it’s heard by a few thousand or so. I’d have thought that was obvious even to you. That was the point I was making comparing the impact of a good item on Sunday and a deeply prejudiced one on Today. In fact I believe the BBC have a curious knack of burying their best output.
As I said jr:
‘It has been established on this blog to everyone’s satisfaction (with the exception of the apologists) that there is a cynical manipulation of the HYS posts and that ‘alerting’ a ‘moderator’ is little more than a joke.’
TPO | 04.06.07 – 11:20 am |
But you give me this:
‘Maybe you were on your recce in Alberta, but a while back someone posted here the fruits of an FoI request showing that the BBC outsourced its moderation to the same commercial agency that serves ITV, Channel 4 and a whole load of other corporations.
Since then I’ve taken allegations of ‘biased moderation’ with a pinch of salt.’
John Reith | 04.06.07 – 12:02 pm |
You’re trying to pull the wool over my eyes you old smoothy. We both know that when you outsource you instruct the contracted agency as to exactly what is required of them.
A Ringing Endorsement For Johnston
Out tabloiding the tabloids. 🙂
Heard on the World Service that celebrity substance abuser Paris Hilton (AKA socialite and heiress Paris Hilton) starts her gaol sentence today.
I wonder what news was bumped to make space on the World News Bulletin for this startlingly important development including the sound bight from the MTV awards?
“The (inexplicably) most prestigious newspaper in the world put its bland story(Terrorist Plot! NYT) on page 30. Instead, page one featured yet another story about Guantanamo Bay detainees.
Any junior editor at any county newspaper in the country would have been fired for putting the most reported story in the nation two-and-a-half dozen pages into the well. Aside from burying a major international story that took place in its metro area, the Newspaper of Record took pains to make the Muslim battle plan that could have atomized a portion of its immediate readership appear utterly irrelevant.
Ultimately, said Mark J. Mershon, the assistant director in charge of the FBI’s New York office, the JFK plotters based their actions on “a pattern of hatred toward the United States and the West in general.” One suspects the same could be said of the New York Times”.
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=28594
BT Vision
What you get
Pause, rewind and record up to 80 hours of live TV, watch On Demand movies when you want. Putting you in control
What you need
All you need is a TV, BT Total Broadband and Freeview reception, everything else is free.
Well not quite, as there is still the matter of £135pa for a TV licence.
Any chance of a provider cutting out live transmissions so that the licence can be avoided?
‘Fear in Israel’s ghost city’ – Unexpectedly published by Al Jazeera in their series – Focus 1967: 40 years of occupation. As I’ve noticed quite a bit recently Al Jazaeera often looks pretty moderate compared to the BBCs output. Makes quite a contrast with the the BBCs coverage.
The 40th aniversary of the 1967 war means little to people who live in fear caused by a conflict very much alive and well. Despite a relative lull in recent days, the town and its surrounding area continue to be hit by rockets fired by Palestinian fighters in Gaza, just three kilometres away. Two people have been killed by the missiles in the past two weeks and up to half of Sderot’s 24,000 strong population are believed to have fled.
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/CDD040E1-F6A3-468F-9792-19B6471305BD.htm
As an antidote to that treacherous shit in Saturday’s Telegraph
(it was actually a fine article about the work of our troops in Afghanistan whose only gripe was that the media wasn’t reporting their activities correctly • so what did phrase did the Telegraph use in its standfirst that ‘sells’ the story? ‘British troops morale is at rock-bottom’) check out this American perspective on the British troops in southern Iraq.
http://michaelyon-online.com/wp/death-or-glory.htm
TPO | 04.06.07 – 2:42 pm |
We both know that when you outsource you instruct the contracted agency as to exactly what is required of them.
True.
And perhaps those instructions are FoI discoverable too.
If so – I’d lay a tenner on them looking very like this:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/help/4176520.stm
Am still unsure which one Bryan thinks was broken by the post he cites.
Listening to the news this morning on Radio 4s Today programme it was all resurrection of the Cold War, and nuclear missles being pointed at “Europe” again (conveniently forgetting that a loose geographical definition of Europe has always been from the Atlantic to the Urals, that actually includes Russia.) No mention of the ‘Conventional Forces in Europe Treaty’ or, the dismantling of the Russian base in Cuba. No, for the BBC it was the myth of the return. But what did Putin actually say in his interview, that resulted in the BBC tabloid headlines:
We have brought all our heavy weapons beyond the Urals and we have reduced our military forces by 300,000, and some other steps. But what do we have in return? We see that Eastern Europe is being filled with new equipment, with new military, in Romania and Bulgaria as well as radar in the Czech Republic and missile systems in Poland. So we have a question there: what is happening? What is happening is that there is the unilateral disarmament of Russia. And we would expect that there should be preparedness of our partners in Europe to do the same . . . but instead of that there is a pumping-in of new weapons systems into eastern Europe. What should we be doing in such conditions? Of course, we should be nothing but concerned. We have announced a moratorium on the CFE implementation. . . .
Finally the third point: How it is motivated? There is a need to get protected against the Iranian missiles. But there are no such missiles. Iran does not have missiles with a range of 5,000 to 8,000 kilometres. We are told that the AMD system is installed for protection against something which doesn’t exist. Don’t you think this is sort of funny? And it would have been funny if it hadn’t been so sad.
Transcription of Putin’s interview
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070604.wputintext0604/BNStory/Front
The measure of Russophobia is illustrated by the manner in which the BBC forgets everything it has ever said or written about WMD, of the so called Bush/Blair lies, and yet decides that a similar American postulate and undertaking for an as yet undisclosed threat is accepted as real, but the greater threat communicated is not of an Iranian nuclear missile, but surprise surprise Russia (an Orthodox Christian State)!
Just think about how the BBC ordinarily bats for Iran and the real hypocrisy of this position. To present Russia as a threat in this context is to argue now that the Iranian nuclear threat is CREDIBLE and REAL and we need this and the Russians ought to bloody well understand this!
Logically, the BBC should be sitting on the fence (and they might well do this later), because the strength of its case will now rest upon the perceived threat from Iran. Similarly, to convince the Russians the BBC will have to repeat the American claims
about the necessity of low-intensity nuclear charges.
They are saying that this is needed in order to counter bin Laden’s hiding somewhere in the cliffs and the rocks…. Why create such low-intensity nuclear charges? Why should one be reducing the threshold for the use of nuclear weapons?
Clearly we don’t want another cold war so how can we convince the Russians that we need these small tactical nuclear weapons to go after Bin Laden, lol.
BBC Islamophobia no, we try not to, but Russophobia oh yes please!
Stepping back from it all a cynic would say this is actually very good news for both Bush & Putin, the armament business will be all high-fives! Similarly, Russia will not be bankrupted now, with its oil billions. Oh and the G8 now as a last chance to talk about Africa and Climate change, lol. The BBCs Russophobia has just shot itself in the foot.
Europe’s invisible illegals
Pakistanis are coming to Europe in big numbers; authorities worry they’re bringing terror with them.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19000112/site/newsweek/
Anonymous:
Europe’s invisible illegals
Pakistanis are coming to Europe in big numbers; authorities worry they’re bringing terror with them.
With precious little evidence, if you bother to read the piece.
And perhaps those instructions are FoI discoverable too.
If so – I’d lay a tenner on them looking very like this:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/help/4176520.stm
Am still unsure which one Bryan thinks was broken by the post he cites.
John Reith | 04.06.07 – 3:38 pm |
jr – Its unfortunate that, unlike the loony left fringe that this blog seems to have attracted recently, my time is limited and I don’t have the time to go fishing around the FoI. Wish that I did. In fact in the next couple of days my time here is going to be severely curtailed for the foreseeable future.
However looking at the link that you thoughtfully provided I can see that items (1)(3)(6)(11)(13)(14) & (15) are breached, some on a monotonously regular basis.
Now if you are saying that the BBC has issued clear guidelines to the contracted agency (God forbid that it’s Capita), then it is incumbent on the BBC to ensure that those guidelines are adhered to. Judging by what is cleared as ‘moderated’ posting it would seem that the BBC has abrogated its responsibility in this area.
I will leave Bryan to comment on his particular issue.
I’ll let you know when I have to stop posting – regards TPO
Nicky Campbell was on relatively good form this morning on a brief interview RE the goverment sugetions on Islam course in universities and related matters.
The funny thing is he asks harder questions on this subject than I ever hear broached on radio 4. I’ts clear he’s even read a book or two on the subject.
Not bias for a change except as it shows the incompetence / lack of resarch / possibble bias of others in the same corporation.
Re: Oscar | 04.06.07 – 2:03 pm | #
——————————————————————————–
“Yup – agreed – altho’ it would be worse than the average failed Arab state – more I think like Somalia. No more nice green lawns and first world buildings in Ramallah.”
I’m afraid I disagree, the “New” Palestine would be an instant Nuclear power and in possession of world class military technology and related infrastructure, not to mention the substantial repositories of original research and proto-type technologies.
What do you think they’re going to do with that then ???
And if you think the Israeli’s would trash everything before the repossession, think again, I wouldn’t. If anything I’d sub-contract as mercenaries.
All you assholes who would throw them down the well (yet again) will have to learn to live with this new reality.
Remember Big M’s original vision was that the Umma would be run out of Jerusalem, Mecca was his 2nd choice !!!!
.
.
.
Some people just refuse to think problems/solutions through to their final conclusions.
As I said before ‘careful what you wish for’.
.
re: Pakistanis in UK
http://www.lionheartuk.blogspot.com/
phoebe:
Thanks for the link to lionheart’s website.
A rare achievement: It makes B-BBC look open-mided
Biased BBC: More open-minded than a blogger called lionheart
Remember Big M’s original vision was that the Umma would be run out of Jerusalem, Mecca was his 2nd choice !!!
Some people just refuse to think problems/solutions through to their final conclusions.
As I said before ‘careful what you wish for’.
DennisTheMenace | 04.06.07 – 5:05 pm | #
Err – maybe I’m being thick but I don’t understand what you’re getting at. What’s this about throwing people down wells? Do you think Israelis are just going to ‘evacuate’ and Pals will take over their nuclear arsenal? Do you mind spelling this theory out? Thanks.
Oscar:
Do you think Israelis are just going to ‘evacuate’ and Pals will take over their nuclear arsenal? Do you mind spelling this theory out?
Let me help.
It’s all got up by the Freemasons, in league with the Scientologists and (flavour to taste) CIA, Mossad, DGSE or Black September.
Turns out that our entire lives are illusions and we’re really plugged into a giant computer called The Matrix. There’s an Agent Smith involved. Or… was that Agent Orange?
Anyway Bijan’s got the whole thing covered. Alan Johnston is absolutely the key, whatever the Boibeeds tell us.
Over to him….
It’s all got up by the Freemasons, in league with the Scientologists and (flavour to taste) CIA, Mossad, DGSE or Black September.
hillhunt | 04.06.07 – 5:59 pm
Not quite but almost, and the Freemasons are involved.
Amnesty International was founded by the communists:
http://www.quadrant.org.au/php/article_view.php?article_id=3400
Many a true word is spoken in utter ignorance.
hillhunt:
phoebe:
Thanks for the link to lionheart’s website.
A rare achievement: It makes B-BBC look open-mided
……………………………….
and what kind of blog would it take to make you look open-minded..
ah f**k it…here’s a picture of hillhunt in his favourite shirt.
http://www.babalublog.com/archives/002354.html
Contrast & Compare:
Palestinian conflict resolution
Palestinian Kindergarten Graduation
The Six Day War: Forty Years On
No mention of water here either…
Biodegradababble
Amnesty International was founded by the communists:
Many a true word is spoken in utter ignorance.
Copy that, BioD. Copy that.
Explains why they gave the Soviets such a hard time, doesn’t it?
hillhunt | 04.06.07 – 6:31 pm
Read the article, then comment:
http://www.quadrant.org.au/php/article_view.php?article_id=3400
Why do people constantly respond to Hillhunt’s provocative, sneering comments.
Engage with John Reith but ignore Hillhunt.
From today’s Newsnight newsletter:
SIX DAY WAR
Tomorrow is the 40th anniversary of the start of a war whose reverberations are still being felt in the Middle East. Newsnight looks back at the Six Day War which demonstrated Israel’s superior firepower over its Arab neighbours and changed the map of the region.
At the end of this short sharp shock Israel controlled the Gaza Strip, the West bank, East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights. Tonight Jeremy Bowen reports on the war that shaped the Middle East.
See you tonight.
Kirsty
I expect he’ll be plugging his book.
It’ll be interesting (or not) to compare with the version at the link I posted above:
http://www.honestreporting.com/articles/45884734/critiques/The_Six_Day_War_Forty_Years_On.asp
Talking about AI, here’s their latest report on the “West Bank fence/wall” which shows no difference between the parts that are actually a concrete wall and the parts that are chicken wire fence.
http://www.amnesty.org/resources/Israel_Report0706/
Even the BBC shows less bias in its presentation giving some idea that in fact very little of the barrier is actually “wall”; approximately 1 in every 14 kilometers or less I believe:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/hi/guides/456900/456944/html/nn2page1.stm
Full size map here (PDF):
Click to access 11_10_06_west_bank_barrier2006.pdf
And talkling about walls – I was struck by the BBC report on Today about the ‘peace’ walls in Northern Ireland. Nothing about ‘apartheid’ – nothing about ‘racism’ – just a straight report that started with the famous Robert Frost quote “good fences make good neighbours” – and a reasonable description of the segregation of Catholics and Protestants. Nothing biased about that report as far as I could tell (not being an expert on the subject) – but how very very different from the treatment of Israel’s separation barrier. Seems like it’s OK for the Irish to take measures to defend themselves with a wall – but if the joooos do it – you can’t move for moral indignation.
The BBC’s love affair with all things Apple has long since been noted, but can anyone suggest why the idiots think: ‘ Launch date for iPhone revealed’ is a news story?
“US President George W Bush – whose country is the only industrialised nation apart from Australia not to ratify the protocol – has proposed uniting a group of big emitters who would set non-binding targets by the end of next year.”
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/6717671.stm
Shouldn’t that be “western country”.? So other industrail countries don’t count. What about India:
“Since independence, India has achieved a good measure of self-sufficiency in manufacturing a variety of basic and capital goods. The output of the major industries includes aircraft, ships, cars, locomotives, heavy electrical machinery, construction equipment, power generation and transmission equipment, chemicals, precision instruments, communication equipment and computers.”
http://hcilondon.net/india-overview/economy-industry-trade/index.html
Obviousley these “goods” are made from wicker.
Or Singapore:
“Singapore’s manufacturing sector is flourishing. The Singapore Economic Development Board found the country’s total manufacturing output increased by 22.5 percent from June 2005 to June 2006. Virtually all sectors of manufacturing experienced robust growth, including electronics, transport engineering and chemicals. “The star of the growth was the biomedical manufacturing industry with 60 percent increase in output,” reports the Singapore Economic Development Board. ”
http://www.allbusiness.com/manufacturing/computer-electronic-product-manufacturing/1191985-1.html#
Anyone who still believes this “MMGW” theory is about greenhouse gasses should think again – its about making the west economical bankrupt.
“UN warning over global ice loss
A warming world will affect all corners of the globe, the UN warns
Hundreds of millions of livelihoods will be affected by declining snow and ice cover as a result of global warming, a UN report has warned.”
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/6713139.stm
So which scientists contributed to this report? The only name mentioned by the BBC is Unep chief Achim Steiner.
“His educational background includes a BA from the University of Oxford as well as an MA from the University of London with specialization in development economics, regional planning, and international development and environment policy.”
http://www.unep.org/Documents.Multilingual/Default.asp?DocumentID=43&ArticleID=5252&l=en
Visiting the UNEP web site also mentions the report but not the authors
http://www.unep.org/Documents.Multilingual/Default.asp?DocumentID=512&ArticleID=5599&l=en
No mention of the authors there either. How are we supposed to check how and by who this report was compliled or review the “science” in the report if we are not told who wrote it. If I were cynical I would say that was the point – no-one is responsible – so if its wrong …!!!!
hilarious.
the bbc got goatsed today…
Why do people constantly respond to Hillhunt’s provocative, sneering comments.
because its fun…..
anyone remember where’s waldo
this one’s called where’s hillhunt
http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/article.php?article_id=9415
Hillhunt
Hey I’ve got a great idea. Why don’t we arrange to meet under the clock at Waterloo at a pre-arranged time. Then we could have a full and frank discussion to air our views.
Horse & Hound | 03.06.07 – 9:17 pm |
Still waiting for a response you tosser. Never mind ……. all wind and piss.
hillhunt : Rote Signale