So, I settled down last evening to watch “Question Time” that flagship BBC programme for political debate. It was the usual uneven mix, with three leftists and two right of liberal panelists. We had the ubiquitous Lib-Dem Baroness Shirley Williams, a BBC favourite, who has now attained sainthood and whose every banal utterance is treated with due solemnity. Then there was Mr Bean look-a-like Labour Minister Ed Miliband. To balance we had David Davis from the Conservatives and Nigel Farage from the UKIP. I thought this provided a form of balance between right and left in terms of the political representatives but what is to be made of the sneering Marcus Brigstock, the alleged comedian, who made up the panel of five?
Naturally he was reflexively left wing but he quite clearly made an utter fool of himself when he declared that since he could not understand the Lisbon treaty, he felt the electorate was therefore not in a position to pass judgement on it via a referendum. It’s as if he did not understand the implication of his own words! Why does the BBC insist on stacking panels with this banal “Student Grant” type of left wing comedian? They add nothing to the quality of the debate and most of them just regurgitate whatever it is they have scanned in the opinion columns of the Guardian. Political debate should not be just for politicians, but the BBC’s odd idea that it must provide space for these clowns is equally unacceptable. I continue to think David Dimbleby an excellent chairman but this programme never achieves it full potential because it insists on being unbalanced in its guest list.
Yes. I always thought that the job of a politician was to argue the point and make their case?
Funny that the same “left” attacked the Government on the War in Iraq for ignoring the view of the people!!!
Just typical double standards by the left. Ignore public opinion when it goes against the views of the left, but then quote it when it suits them.
The BBC are guilty of this. The relentless coverage of the anti war brigade in the build up to the Iraq war, yet the BBC igonre the views of those that want a return of the dealth penalty or a vote on the EU!!
The left really are arseholes.
Slightly O/T – but has there been a troll-cull?
Funnily enough I actually agree with Brigstock that in theory there shouldn’t be a referendum, on the basis that decisions should be made by people paid to read and understand the treaty rather than plumbers called Dave (or Mohammad haha) who don’t like Frenchies.
However in practice we were promised a referendum so should have one irrespective of how stupid it would be. At the very least every MP voting should’ve had to answer 20 questions on the detail as I strongly suspect most of them haven’t read it either.
And Marcus Brigstock is an utter twat. I thought Nick Griffin was supposed to be on anyway?
Twice ( at least ) the lovely Shirley told men to “stop shouting” just because they disagreed with her. This, I believe, is a chick thing. The wife does it with my good self, yet I’ve never heard a bloke say this to me when we are having an argument/discussion/healthy exchange of views.
What’s wrong with the dames? Do they have different hearing techniques, like bats and dogs?
Most people don’t read or understand the political parties’ manifestos.Does this mean people are not qualified to vote in a general election either?
Why didn’t anyone on the panel have the wit to make this point against Bridgestock?
Isn’t it absolutely typical that in a week when it was obvious that the Lisbon Treaty would be a major topic, the panel is weighted with a 3:2 majority in favour of it.
Every poll taken has shown the public is against it, so the BBC must try to sway public opinion to the “correct” answer.
LMO: How often do you hear thicko’s saying “I vote Labour, ma dad voted Labour and ma grandad voted Labour…”
The attitude of Bridestock is typical of the left.
I’ve already pointed out that the left want a “thick” uneducated population that they the elite few in the media can manipulate.
The do this through smashing good state schools and by importing people who have no command of the English language but will always be grateful to the people who let them in, gave them a council house and child benefit.
THe point about the referendum was that we were “promised one”
OK I’m very serious in what I want to say here re Rowan Atkinson, he was the only person to stand up and write a letter to the times in London raising the issue of and take a stand against David Blunket when he tried to get a law through that would make it illegal to ‘insult someone elses religion in such a way that it might ‘stir up religious hatred’. This law was to apply to all publications, yet no artist or journalist or anybody else stood up to it except Mr Bean.
It really is insulting to link Miliband to Mr Bean, since it would appear that Mr Bean has got intelligence where as Miliband……
Perhaps Rowan Atkinson/Mr Bean for foreign secretary would be better for the country than the one we have in place.
>Funnily enough I actually agree with >Brigstock that in theory there >shouldn’t be a referendum, on the >basis that decisions should be made by
>people paid to read and understand the
>treaty rather than plumbers called >Dave (or Mohammad haha) who don’t like
>Frenchies.
But cockney – it was written to try to stop us understanding it. And the Zanulab frones mostly don’t understand it either or couldn’t give a monkeys.
But many of us understand very well what this is all about.
To quote Giscard d’Estaing:
“Public opinion will be led to adopt, without knowing it, the proposals
that we dare not present to them directly. All the earlier proposals
will be in the new text, but will be hidden and disguised in some way.”
(Le Monde, 14 June 2007 and Sunday Telegraph, 1 July 2007)
As a member of the audience put it in the Intelligence Squared debate the other night:
If the EU Treaty said “The cat sat on the mat”, the Lisbon Treaty will say:
“The furry feline quadruped approached the item of floor covering and seated itself thereupon, and the cat concept is hereby abandoned.”
Typhoo,
You are right – Rowan Atkinson was one of the very few who showed some common sense. When was HE last on QT?
David Vance: “It’s as if he did not understand the implication of his own words! Why does the BBC insist on stacking panels with this banal “Student Grant” type of left wing comedian? They add nothing to the quality of the debate and most of them just regurgitate whatever it is they have scanned in the opinion columns of the Guardian.”
I agree completely with your points, David, except that in your remark about “Guardian comment pages” I don’t think you went far enough.
I suspect that most of the BBC’s bank of lefty comedians get their opinions not from the “Guardian” that morning’s copy of “Socialist Worker”, for example, the painfully unfunny Mark Steel, who has only quit the SWP in the last few weeks, who has been allowed to push the trotskiite line not only in his witless comedy programmes but also in the historical documentaries the BBC has allowed him to make despite his utter lack of authority on any of the topics he addressed.
Rob,
Good point – and Mark Steele is the personification of this extreme left wing species to which the BBC seems so attracted. I don’t mind anyone holding the sort of views that Steele and Brigstock do – it’s a democracy we live in after all. I DO object to having to pay for them to be afforded a platform from which they can expound their drivel however.
I remember seeing Brigstock at a comedy club a few years ago and he was venomously anti-American, maybe a BBC executive was in the audience that night because sure enough he’s on his way to becoming omnipresent on BBC schedules. Pro-EU, anti-American, a schoolbiy socialist – perfect bee fodder.
Mark Steel is the thinking man’s Jeremy Hardy.
I am not sure that one non-class A drug offence is automatically sackable, though possession of 2gms of a class C drunk is criminal, and most companies think very carefully about the future of an employee who commits such a crime.
What is arguably more criminal (and perhaps more relevant here) is Jonny Dymond’s reporting of EU affairs. He’s a typical example of a BBC reporter who has ‘gone native’ and can’t see the pro-Brussels bias in his own stories because he’s so admiring of the EU.
Systematic analysis of some of his stuff also shows that he swallows EU press releases as if they were on tablets of stone, and at the same time too easily dimisses eurosceptic views.
From the outside, it looks (from his approach to his work) like he’s a typical soft-left BBC type, for whom drug-taking would be an automatic lifestyle choice. And let’s face it, you wouldn’t risk customs searches in places like Lithunia unless it was.
As for the BBC, they should have a clear drugs policy that is transparent and properly enforced.b They do in oher areas of perceived thought crime. They sacked Robert Kilroy Silk, for example, very swiftly when he had the temerity to suggest that Islam might not be a force for the good.
AmI the only one who finds “alternative comedy” basically unfunny?
Give me Benny Hill, Frankie Howard or Tommy Cooper over any of these self inflated leftie arswipes any day.
I thought Brigstock came across as a complete lightweight. He seemed very nervous and even his saracastic quips were lukewarm.
Funny thing about actor/comedian types.
They like to pride themselves on being radical, different, brave dissenters etc but actually love and need the security of the group-think probably more than any profession in the country. I know what they are going to say before they open their mouths.
Last night Shirley Williams claimed Europe (and I assume she meant the EU and its related and predecessor bodies) was responsible for peace and democracy in Europe. WTF!!! I reckon the contributions of Belgium, Greece, Spain, France etc to peace and democracy in Europe over the past 60 years can be written on the back of a postage stamp in 16 pt font. It was them nasty Yanks wot did it.
John, well yeah – but flowerly language is just the continental European way. If you ever correspond in writing with Italians it’s worth remembering that ‘Please could you blah blah..’ gets you nowhere, but ‘I would be delighted if you could see fit in your wisdom blah blah..’ obtains an excellent response.
It’s my opinion that a referendum would be a ridiculous way to decide whether to sign this agreement or not, but….
a) We were promised one so we should have one. End of.
b) Finding a panel 3/2 against having one takes some doing given the popular opinion behind having one.
c) Imbeciles like Brigstock shouldn’t be allowed anywhere near what purports to be an intellectual discussion programme.
Best laugh of the evening was Margaret Hodge getting tripped up by saying things on her blog , indeed for margaret it was dangerous to be a blogger. Yet on BBC2 there she was offering ‘tea and chocolate biscuits’ to make her constitutents feel better about immigration. That made them feel listened to she says…..how daft she looked on two BBC channels. 😉
Labours policy is put the country right with tea and bikkies…..
Gawd labour really is finished.
David Vance
Why does the BBC insist on stacking panels with this banal “Student Grant” type of left wing comedian?
Among non-MP QT guests since Jan 1 2008:
21 feb
Fraser Nelson
13 Feb
Melanie Phillips
1 Feb
Amanda Platell
10 Jan
Louise Bagshawe
‘a schoolbiy socialist’
No I think the description on newsnight was much better.dge was described as a Champagne socialist, which I think most of them are in the Labour party.
The Iraq war was something, whether you disagree with it or not, which a sovereign government has been elected to do. A government who has to get the opinion of the electorate prior to declaring war would have it’s hands tied.
However, for a government elected for a finite length of time to govern this country should never have the freedom to bind this and all future governments to become subordinate to a higher authority. It is outside their electoral mandate.
Great comment about the cat, it would be funny if it wasn’t so dangerous. If we don’t understand it (and I’m convinced the government does not either) then why on earth should we sign up to it?
Thanks to the BBC Brigstocke makes a good living being cynical about politics and religion. It is therefore ironic (but not surprising) that he holds such unthinking faith-like devotion in the EU. Like all EU supporters he is a devotee, a happy clappy congregant in the Church of the European Project. He may not understand the Gospel according to Lisbon, but verily he doth know in his heart it is good. Like an illiterate dirt-scrabbling peasant of old he prefers not to question the wisdom of the high priests who tell him that failure to follow that which is written will mean only chaos. The referendum is a heresy which threatens the divine order, and as such must be cast out into the darkness.
Anon, Fraser Nelson and Amanda Platell have direct close experience of UK politics. Melanie Phillips writes political columns in the media. Personally I think Phillips is full of crap but that’s my opinion.
Bigstock is a COMEDIAN. Why the hell should anyone care what he thinks about politics?
Are you sure Brigstock actually is a comedian? He’s never made me laugh.
Mark Steel is the thinking man’s Jeremy Hardy.
Rueful Red | 07.03.08 – 10:51 am
Mark Steel and Jeremy Hardy are the thinking man’s cue to turn the radio off.
Brigstocke was on Monday’s Radcliffe and Maconie show.
He was there to plug a dvd he has out, made mention of some recent adventures in the arctic with the Cape Farewell project and plug a snowboarding comedy festival he set up in the Alps – but it’s ok! He carbon offsets.
As ever the “guest” on QT inthis case Marcus Brigstock was toe-curling. Why does the Beeb insist on putting total lightweights on the panel?
Why does QT also allow total idiots into the audience as well?
Anomymous 10.59am. Among non-MP QT guests since Jan 1 2008:
21 feb
Fraser Nelson. And with Fraser: Ruth Kelly, Vince Cable, Derek Simpson (Unite union), Alan Duncan – only other right winger
13 Feb
Melanie Philips. And with Melanie: Caroline Flint, Bishop Hulme (supporting Rowan’s comments),Clive James (politically left wing), Baroness Warsi (Conservative).
1 Feb
Amanda Platell. And with Amanda: Shaun Woodward, John Sessions, Bonnie Greer (“”The truth is that I can’t warm to Obama. Maybe I’m just too working-class, too old-school, to trust black people who look that slick outside of show business or the church”) and Ken Clarke
10 Jan (had to go back a bit)
Louise Bagshawe. And with Louise: Jaqcui Smith, Chris Huhne, Kevin Maguire (Mirror/New Statesman), and Liam Fox.
Spot the one where right wingers outnumber those on the left.
I thought Nick Griffin was supposed to be on anyway?
Cockney | 07.03.08 – 9:38 am | #
Newsnight and he was a twat too.
“Am I the only one who finds “alternative comedy” basically unfunny?”
No, mainly because they aren’t funny in the traditional sense. Note how they attract that irritating, smug type of applause from live audiences. About 90% of their ‘humour’ seems to consist of sniping at the usual soft targets.
Annon 11.54am,
“Nick Griffon was a twat” Care to explain why you came up with that simple summing up?
I mean what did he say? If you post accusations like that, then at least back up your assertions with some evidence or direct quotes please, otherwise we have no way of judging your opinion.
Oops, should read Nick Griffin!
Some people have sat down with the EU Constitution and the Lisbon treaty and found no real difference. A lot of people do understand the impact on key principals of representative democracy etc., and because this dike cannot understand that does not mean that people like me who have developed an understanding should not have a vote, what a twat.
Effing & blinding: Democracy in europe ONLY exits because of NATO an orginisation hated by the left wing scum.
Cassandra wrote;
Annon 11.54am, “Nick Griffon was a twat” Care to explain why you came up with that simple summing up?
While not Anon. I also say that Nick Griffin is a twat. The only reason he was on Newsnight is simply to promote the BBC POV that white working class people (WWCP)are all inbred dossers. What makes the whole story even more damning is that, the people who point at the WWCP as scum are usually the people who bettered themselves and moved up a social layer. Oh look the BBC to a f…ing tee.
I once had to pick up a Col from Glasgow airport and on the way to the training camp he banged on about how he had just being on holiday to France , how he loved Champagne and how he had brought back a few cases of Veuve Cliquot. Yup anything to impress the pleb who shouldn’t know anything about ‘Champagne’.
I simply replied that I found Veuve Cliquot crap, that I preferred Gosset as it was lighter, that there was a whole number of champagnes that were far superiour and I wouldn’t touch VC with a barge pole. The fact that I knew about Champagne didn’t start a discussion on the subject. No rather it killed the conversation dead. Oh and that Col. He started off life in a council estate and is now a Brig. Yup amazing how people are so ashamed of where they came from. Myself, I class myself as from the working Class, albeit not the WWC.
But I still think Griffon is a twat. They should have invited on Peter Griffin.
Alan Duncan – only other right winger
Right-winger? I don’t think so. What is it that makes Alan Duncan a ‘right-winger’?
The only person in Hugh’s list who could be described as right-wing is Melanie Phillips.
Was Nick Griffin on Newsnight last night? If so, what happened?
Brigstock Steel and Hardy – a trio of pc unfunny bbc/nulab loving wastes of space…
“LMO: How often do you hear thicko’s saying “I vote Labour, ma dad voted Labour and ma grandad voted Labour…”
Martin | 07.03.08 – 10:11 am”
But you really have never heard a Tory saying that? Thats Reithlike selectivity, I just do not accept it.
I’ve never heard a Tory saying that, no. In fact, I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone boast about voting Conservative, rather than simply stating it or more usually admitting it.
This ‘White Season’ from the Beeb has really depressed me. But anyway, having now spent at least 6 hours (sleepless night) thinking about last nights televisual atrocity from “Newsnight” I now have this to say:
The BBC’s concern for the WWC hopelessly reduces the abolition of Britain to a problem related to race and class and not to the abolition of Britain and its myriad political problems related to the incompetance and illegitamacy of our political class. Among those problems we can include the immigration policy now run without even the most basic utilitarian concerns.
Having done some googling. Turns out he was House Captain of ‘Prideaux House’ but I’ve yet to find out which particular public school Marcus went to. He’s very coy about his education, you see, until he goes to Bristol Uni (which outside Oxbridge is up there with St Andrews and Durham in the posh uni stakes – I know, I went there)
Young Marcus doesn’t mind telling all about his weight problems, however.
http://women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/women/the_way_we_live/article2773166.ece
Hugh – I don’t watch Broadcast TV myself so I didn’t see the 13th of Feb Question Time with Clive James in. I’m a great fan of Clive James -how did he come across? Do you really consider him politically left? I find him quite hard to pigeon hole actually – his essays as of late are of a particular free-market libertarian bent. He is certainly socially liberal but is very pro-American and anti-communist. In general I enjoy his writing and broadcasting because he is an intellgent moderate – he doesn’t slavishly follow political dogma of any flavour.
£100,000 on an eco-makeover for his house. The licence payer has been good to him.
Poor soul is having trouble getting his “photovoltaic panels” fitted, though. Apparently there’s a long waiting list and the government has set a cap on grants for installing them (a quick call to a commissioning editor at the BBC should ease any worries about payments, surely?). In true Pseuds Corner fashion he insists on sourcing his panels “from a Chinese plant, the only one in the world with a really solid eco-record.” He also has special balloons for inflating up the chimney to keep heat from escaping. A bin-bag filled with crumpled newspaper not good enough, evidently. Still, it’s his money, and as he says: “I’ve had a good couple of years with work”. Yes, and if Hardy and Steel are anything to go by, the BBC will make sure he’ll never have to worry on that front again.
Regarding Marcus Brigstock. He is an insufferable twat. I had the misfortune to hear him on “The Now Show” once (which is bad enough in its own right) smuggly dismissing any criticism of the NHS by saying the only people who complain about it are the smug middle classes (who he wouln’t be part off at all) who aren’t ever ill enough to appreciate it. Despite the fact that people who work for the NHS are complaining about how poorly managed and in-efficient it is.
I also heard him on a Radio interview once being asked about his political leanings and he said somthing very close to “I know I talk about socialism but I don’t want socialism; I like owning stuff too much!”
I didn’t see the 13th of Feb Question Time with Clive James in. I’m a great fan of Clive James -how did he come across?
Simon | 07.03.08 – 3:00 pm |
With regard to Rowan Williams and sharia law James said there were three words the archbishop didn’t understand – “thin”, “end” and “wedge”. Summed it up nicely, I thought.
Have you heard the labour lovies on Chain Reaction recently? Programme 2 was David Tennant interviewing Richard Wilson including questions about champagne socialism. Programme 3 was Richard Wilson interviewing Arabella Weir including about her support for Labour and her charity work with Sarah Brown. I am assuming that it will be luvvies for Labour all the way…
DV said “Good point – and Mark Steele is the personification of this extreme left wing species to which the BBC seems so attracted. I don’t mind anyone holding the sort of views that Steele and Brigstock do – it’s a democracy we live in after all. I DO object to having to pay for them to be afforded a platform from which they can expound their drivel however.”
Important point here !!!
The real danger of the bbc is the insideous presentation of quite left wing views as the norm, and the denigration of anything else as right wing. I highlighted an example of this last week, the presentation of a guy from Bristol University , Dr. Harris, to conclude a discussion in a supposedly impartial way. Except that Harris is well known in the countryside as a raving animal rights nutter with no scientific credibility and his ‘conclusion’ was utterly flawed.
Ask anyone with specific knowledge of a subject and they will tell you the same thing, the bbc coverage will invariably have an inbuilt leftist bias. It is highlighting this bias and bringing it to the attention of the MSM and sympathetic MP’s that makes this site so important.
Simon,
I agree, actually, but that’s how he describes himself as far as I know. He is good.
backwoodsman | 07.03.08 – 3:21 pm
“The real danger of the bbc is the insideous presentation of quite left wing views as the norm, and the denigration of anything else as right wing.”
Amen.
“I’ve never heard a Tory saying that, no. In fact, I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone boast about voting Conservative, rather than simply stating it or more usually admitting it.
Hugh | 07.03.08 – 1:12 pm”
Maybe you really havent heard it but trust me I have.
Some even put it in print like this lady
http://www.sarahlnewton.com/
or even this well known conservative has a conservative family background…
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4502656.stm
In particular go to the south east home counties or affluent shires and ou will still find plenty that say it.
Boast about it, maybe not, but say it and act accordingly, yes.