. It is article of faith for the BBC that terrorism is best defeated through dialogue with the terrorists. Through the prism of leftworld, the idea that you might want to defeat terrorism by wiping out terrorists is a non-starter, hence the crusade against the Bush doctrine. So you can understand the delight of the BBC when the man tipped to become the next head of the Metropolitan police, Sir Hugh Orde, argues that we should be talking to Al Queda. Sir Hugh is the Chief Constable of the PSNI here in Northern Ireland and delights in the fact that convicted IRA bombers and bank-robbers now sit on his policing board. I’m guessing that his idea of the future for London might be when those masterminds behind the 7/7 attacks can be brought in from the cold and given a job running London transport. Orde’s views resonate perfectly with the BBC’ s views which is why he gets to make these outrageously craven comments with not one word of criticism from any other source. Perhaps the BBC could have asked the next of kin of those poor people slaughtered by Jihadists on that fateful July day if they share Orde’s enthusiasm for parlaying with deranged killers.
LET’S TALK
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field.size:
I cannot think of any Politician with the stature of a Churchill or a Thatcher that we could rely on to think the dark thoughts and do the dark deeds that will be required to guide the country through the looming problems.
How dark would you like the thoughts and/or deeds to be?
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Hillhunt | 30.05.08 – 5:05 pm
Just how dark do you think things will become should such a scenario happen? Use your imagination for a while, I’m sure something will pop up eventually….or not, as is most likely.
Hillhunt,
I won’t make a point of name calling.(You know what you are anyhow).One thing though.I’m investing all my money in lead and bricks.There will be a great need for these commodities in the next few years.
hillhunt
“Excellent point. The BBC should assume that its audience have no idea what Al Q is, what it stands for, and what it’s been up to.”
You mean, assume they’ve digested the message of The Power of Nightmares, and believe that al-Qaeda is a postmodern virtual myth cooked up by ruthless American Neocons in order to keep us all scared, you mean, as the BBC has told them?
Yes. I agree.
f.s:
Use your imagination for a while
Delighted to, but I usually end up with the same picture of a tree in a meadow.
I was wondering, as you had set the idea running of a political leader we could rely on to think the dark thoughts and do the dark deeds, what the job description might actually be.
So that we can pool ideas. That sort of thing.
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Hillhunt | 30.05.08 – 5:21 pm
Actually I had an idea that your imagination would throw up nothing more than blue sky with the odd bird flapping though it, it turns out to be much richer.
.
“The problem for professional sneerers is that they rather overlook their own startling igorance.”
Physician, heal thyself.
OK, you’re Pro-Am, but the point stands.
F.size:
it turns out to be much richer.
Indeed. I am blessed.
But these dark thoughts? And dark deeds?
What must be done?
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Hillhunt | 30.05.08 – 5:34 pm
HH if your entertaining ideas of trolling just the bits you think you can wind people up on…well best you pick on another post, nothing doing here.
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f.size:
HH if your entertaining ideas of trolling just the bits you think you can wind people up on…well best you pick on another post,
Y-e-e-e-s. You don’t think your clarion call for a leader capable of dark thoughts and performing dark deeds is a substantial point?
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Hillhunt | 30.05.08 – 5:45 pm
That’s funny; I can’t remember making any clarion call, let’s remind ourselves what I did say…
I cannot think of any Politician with the stature of a Churchill or a Thatcher that we could rely on to think the dark thoughts and do the dark deeds that will be required to guide the country through the looming problems.
.
It is news… big news (the guy is up for Head of the Met, no?), and hence warrants serious coverage.
Having read all this I was struck by this just arrived from Ch4:
AND FROM MORE4 NEWS WITH KEME NZEREM
Should the west be negotiating with al-Qaida? That’s what Chief Constable of Northern Ireland Hugh Orde says. But who would you talk to? And about what? Osama bin Laden’s video messages have demanded everything from the suppression of cartoons and troops out of Iraq to the establishment of a Muslim caliphate in Spain.
Seems a fair summary of the facts… and even fairer, rational questions. I may even watch to find out more.
However, on the basis of this: Britain ‘could talk to al-Qaeda’ – The UK should not rule out talking to al-Qaeda in a strategy to end its campaign of violence, according to one of the country’s most senior policemen. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7426874.stm , well, life’s too short. I wasted too much time on such things with arts grads on full grant, with a crush on their lecturer, all with too much time on their hands, at Uni. I wonder where they all ended up?
HH – Given that the examples of Thatcher (modest but adequate taskforce sent to repel military invasion of small British island, plus armed ambushes and shoot to kill policy against IRA killers) and Winston Churchill (dismissed by appeasers as an old-fashioned warmonger for recognising that negotiations with Hitler were futile and immoral) in outlining what he means, your posturing looks even more wooden and artificial than normal.
Given that an armed and extensive network of anti-democratic, murdering, religious fascists has declared war on us, I estimate that fieldsize is lamenting the fact that we have leaders who want to negotiate with them on an equal footing rather than from a position of strength and certain victory.
I’m now taking bets on which sentence will be the next victim of one of your oh-so-clever “excellent point” sarcasms. It’s a wonder anyone here has any confidence left at all, you’ve used the line so often to such devastating effect.
f.size:
Indeed. You want to know where are the leaders we could rely on to think the dark thoughts and do the dark deeds that will be required to guide the country…
Substantial departure from current thinking, n’est-ce pas? What are these dark events which you feel will require strong leaders to accomplish?
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hh, perhaps he means: recognising that we are at war whether we like it or not, and having the courage to prosecute a war successfully, rather than endlessly containing our enemies while the slow trickle of deaths continues.
Just a thought.
But hey – you keep asking what you’re sure is such a key and revealing question. You’ve almost nailed this site completely. I’d say a dozen more queries about dark thoughts and deeds, and we’ll be beaten.
Stop wasting you time HH, you really are making yourself look silly.
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Update on my 5:01 pm post. I commented on the WHYS blog and Mark Sandell came back to me, saying it was not his personal opinion and that he would amend the blog. He did, and it now reads, As recently as February, we were reading stories of the organisation in retreat in Iraq, so it might be a good time, the argument goes.
Credit where it is due.
g tree:
you keep asking what you’re sure is such a key and revealing question
Quite. An appeal for a leader capable of dark deeds is an extraordinary thing in a democracy.
Quoting Mrs T and Churchill is an odd cop-out. If the BBC accused either of them of dark deeds, the columns of B-BBC would overflow with condemnation. Rightly so.
So…what are the dark deeds we need to be done in our name?
field.size:
Stop wasting you time HH, you really are making yourself look silly.
Silly’s nothing compared to dark. How dark must we go?
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Hillhunt | 30.05.08 – 6:13 pm
Have you a point to make HH? I’m sure lurking somewhere is a devastating attack of such brilliance that I will be crushed, however it seems like I have to trigger it by replying to your oh so subtle trap question.
Move along please, the booby and his trap have been sighted.
.
“Delighted to, but I usually end up with the same picture of a tree in a meadow.”
Ah! The “Solitary Tree Syndrome”,a dangerous non-collectivist condition,indicative of of the rejection of society.
F. size:
Have you a point to make HH?
Why, yes.
What dark deeds do you envisage for our putative strong leader?
No trap. We’d all like to know we’re we’re heading, I’m sure.
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hillhunt,
The B-BBC blog has it wrong and your blog which is as popular as a rattler in a luckydip has it right then.
Terrific blogging advice…
Hillhunt | 30.05.08 – 6:23 pm
I think those here with minds that I admire understand my point completely.
An interchange with yours would be fruitless and therefore I will not indulge you, no matter how you try.
Not only that but I must now set out for home, I will leave you to ask your question to the static.
O.K. Hillhunt, enough yapping round our ankles.
What do you suggest we offer A.Q. at the negotiating table?
What do you suggest we offer A.Q. at the negotiating table?
George Galloway. And Islington.
May I point out that Hugh Orde is only saying what has already been said by Powell in his book, great hatred little room, making peace in Northern Ireland, and also by the former Colonel of the British Army who served in NI and Iraq, and is from NI, tim collins? Are these people lefty too, and should they not be reported either.
David Vance didn’t you get scrapped from the BBC’s Nolan show yesterday??? Usurped by Iris Robinson???
I like reading David Vance’s posts, very often they say what needs to be said, but on this one I’m a little sceptical. This was an interview given in the guardian news paper and then reported by the belfast telegraph and all outlets in northern Ireland. What should the bbc have done? Ignored it…….
Lets keep it real shall we?
May I add that I do not agree with Orde et al but they have a right to air their opinions based on their experiences – same as David Vance is given the same chance by BBC NI’s nolan show.
Credit where it is due.
Bryan | 30.05.08 – 6:12 pm
Bravo Bryan! :+:
May I point out that Hugh Orde is only saying what has already been said by Powell in his book,
Huh? So? And this is a recommendation how?
HH – your unconvincing evasion re Thatcher and Churchill is telling. You know full well what FS means, but are determined that if you pretend there lurks something far more sinister behind the phrase “dark deeds” than actions in which a leader was not afraid to send men to kill or be killed in defending democratic society from murderers or dictatorships, then we’ll all think you’re some kind of Perry Mason and go home crying.
In fact, you’re just making yourself look desperate.
“Substantial departure from current thinking, n’est-ce pas?”
Excellent point! Heaven forbid that anyone should have an idea that deviates from current group-think orthodoxy.
Your thought processes are rather bien-pensant, n’est-ce pas?
Sue:
What do you suggest we offer A.Q. at the negotiating table?
Cartoons of the prophet?
Who knows? How often would you negotiate with aggressive strangers by offering them something concrete at the outset?
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What do you suggest we offer A.Q. at the negotiating table?
Sue | 30.05.08 – 6:28 pm
Simple. Give up their weapons and surrender or die.
Bryan | 30.05.08 – 6:12 pm |
Credit where it is due.
Well done, and nice to see someone’s mind opened up, even momentarily, at the BBC. Too bad they didn’t see anything wrong with it at first glance.
Hillhunt | 30.05.08 – 6:44 pm | #
offering them something concrete at the outset?
like a tall building? At the outset? Showing your hand too soon I fear.
Biodegradable | 30.05.08 – 6:38 pm,
David Preiser (USA) | 30.05.08 – 6:53 pm,
Thanks guys. I was just gobsmacked, as they say in the classics, by the idea of the guy who is winning being the one who has to stop and talk his way out of the fight.
Dhimmis like Orde are always respected by the BBC and their nauseating apologists like Hillhunt. There is nothing to debate with AQ. All that remains is to track down AQ and their ilks and kill them. That’s how you deal with terrorism – Sir Hugh prefers to reward such scum and may weill get the Metropolitan job on the back of it. London is indeed calling…
Remember Patton:
“It’s not my job to die for my country, but to get the other son-of-a-bitch to die for his.”
I can just imagine how the talks with Al Qaeda would go. “Become a muslim, accept Shariah, at best enjoy Dhimmitude & pay jizya – or we will cut off your head. Oh and when we die we meet 72 black-eyed houri virgins so we are not afraid unlike you.” For people sexually frustrated young Saudi men I daresay this is very alluring, considering their literal belief in such a heaven.
Perhaps Hillhunt could open his (or her?) mind & read the Koran. Personally I found it the most disturbing book I have ever read. Islam is the only “great religion” which directly enjoins its followers to deceive & kill unbelievers. Our choice is to defend our culture & our values or to submit. There is no middle way.
“Sir Hugh prefers to reward such scum and may well get the Metropolitan job on the back of it. London is indeed calling…”
Which is, of course, the object of the exercise.
Jack I’m not endorsing, I do realise that state broadcasters play the news game,even RTE do it,
http://www.atangledwebb.com/2008/05/playing-news-game.html
but in this instance they are merely reporting on what the Guardian printed, as did the Belfast Telegraph among others? As they all reported on Jonathan Powell and Tim Collins who said more or less the same thing.
As has been pointed out before, to negotiate with Islamic terrorists is to negotiate the terms of our surrender. In other words, there is absolutely nothing to talk about.
This is why Ehud Olmert is really starting to worry me. Israel is in serious need of a right wing government.
“Merely reporting what the Guardian printed”? Now that IS a first for the BBC! Next thing you’ll be telling me is they’re “merely reporting what the Telegraph printed” about that poll showing McBroon enjoying the lowest poll-ratings since records began. What’s that? You mean they somehow forgot?
a crazy person. Completely off his rocker. A dimwit.
Yep, that’s the dumb, ignorant wanker hillhunt to a T.
Bob, who reported on Orde other than the bbc.
Belfast Telegraph.
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/article3750442.ece
utv.
http://u.tv/newsroom/indepth.asp?id=89382&pt=n
Lancashire telegraph
http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/national_news/index.var.224592.0.talk_to_alqaeda_says_top_officer.php
are some others who reported on it, and look at this:
London Calling???
Analysis: Sir Hugh Orde’s view on al-Qaeda may harm his Met career
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article4033555.ece
hmmm….
sky
http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30100-1317590,00.html?f=rss
aol news
http://news.aol.co.uk/talk-to-al-qaida-says-top/article/20080530045009990001?country=uk
Or would you prefer the BBC didn’t report what the other news outlets report?????
Did any other media outlet pick up on the worst rating story????? Broons bad ratings isn’t news anymore imv.
ATW: “Broons bad ratings isn’t news anymore imv.”
And the clown’s latest gimmick – phoning members of the public who have written to him – is?
That ruse managed to make the BBC’s 10 pm news tonight. And the worst rating any Prime Minister has ever received did not.
That’s bias.
A TANGLED WEB,
You’re a strange one, aren’t you? You set up a web site borrowing the name and strap-line from my long established site. Now you post here using the name of my site. Odd. Should I ask for royalties?
Biodegradable:
Remember Patton:
“It’s not my job to die for my country, but to get the other son-of-a-bitch to die for his.”
But Patton didn’t work for the BBC or read the Guardian.
That’s bias.
If what you say is correct GCooper – I agree, thats bias. I missed the news at ten – along with my usual pint.
David Vance.
http://www.twbooks.co.uk/
Spiderman and crime fiction. I’ve some old comics that are worth a few bob, I’ll post them up in time.
Nice reading your posts and keep up the good work, I don’t always agree but agree on a lot. Good luck with what you do here.
Yep, a tangled webb is like one of those cheap replicas on the Thai market. Recent fakes are of pretty decent quality though, which ruins a perfectly good analogy. Shame.
Now scuse me, my Roleks says it’s time to go to the shops and buy me some new Mikes that fit.
Peter Parker might make for a better name, and you should drop the use of my strap-line, in the name of dissent.
Yep, that’s the dumb, ignorant wanker Hillhunt to a T.
I find Hillhunt not only deeply offensive but also profoundly depressing. So lets hope these following comments are as offensive to him as he so often is to others.
He is well and truly got his mind stuck in genuinely believing that all things so called ‘left’ are great wonderful perfect, and all things so called ‘right’ are bad terrible and corrupted.
THERE IS AND NEVER HAS BEEN ANY SUCH THING AS LEFT OR RIGHT IDEOLOGY. THERE IS NOW AND ALWAYS HAS BEEN RIGHT AND WRONG MORAL THINKING.
All he shows me is quite how wonderful the BBC has been at mind controlling his every waking thought.
His diseased mind dictates that anyone that has not undergone his own full level of BBC Fabian type indoctrination is somehow evil or lying.
When he finally grows up, let us pray that one day he will start to understand that ordinary people are not evil, but the world they live in is run by potentially very evil thinking indeed. Elitist ideas, philosophy and theology, that run to the very core of what the BBC is all about.
Murder is WRONG. It makes no moral difference why someone murders, its just plain wrong under any circumstances.
Hillcunt, Galloway, Livingstone, Bush Blair, Brown, Rothschild and the BBC are not against Wars or murder they just wish to control and influence the ultimate outcome of deliberately created and long planned for violent national and international conflicts.
The media help achieve this do this by helping to cause chaos and confusion, so that the ruling elites can reinstate order. By so doing they permanently change society for their own personal benefit and highly RELIGIOUS and very much high MASONIC based belief structure.
The only thing IMO that is up for debate is; what exactly is the future these Ruling elites have in mind for us all? What is it going to be like for my children, if indeed the poor buggers will even be allowed to live long enough to have much of one?
The BBC works in the interests of the British and world establishment. This must be a TRUISM if ever there was one. How could the BBC possibly be doing or allowed to be doing anything else?
Hillcunt is a simple minded brainwashed idiot who represents well the power of the BBC to corrupt the normal human thought processes to the point of him/her/it not now being a normal human being at all. His/her/its degree of natural empathy with his/her/its ordinary fellow citizens, showcases this sadly obvious fact to absolute perfection.