Rumbling on
The headlines today are, well, challenging for the Beeb:
- My grandfather is distraught…now sack these sickos, says the Sun
- Brown turns up heat on Ross, at the Mail
- Brown demands action from BBC over lewd stars, says the Telegraph
- Clamour grows for BBC to act over radio insults, says the Times
And that’s just those that lead with it on their front page.
Much of the ire is, understandably, being directed at Ross and Brand, but for my money Iain Dale has it right here, where he points out that since it was pre-recorded much of the responsibility must lie with producer, editor and station controller. Sky also have a good interview with former DJ Roger Gale, arguing against making a scapegoat of out of a junior staff member. As he puts it, It’s the people at the top that set the trend, not those low down the food chain.
This Guardian piece also has some interesting background that helps explain why this could be be good news for those that want to see reform at the Beeb:
Unfortunately for the BBC’s director general, Mark Thompson, the furore has coincided with the endgame in a debate about the future of public service broadcasting post-2012. Ofcom will deliver its conclusions in January.
Critics said the BBC’s slow response and the confusing reviews now in motion showed the weakness of its regulatory system, which was overhauled after the Hutton inquiry, and its compliance regime, supposed to have been tightened after last year’s fakery rows and phone-in scandals.
Who knows, it could even lead to suggestions that the BBC actually monitor compliance with other charter commitments, such as to impartiality.
UPDATE: Brand and Ross have been suspended – and after three days the Beeb has managed to find Mark Thompson. The number of complaints has now topped 18,000. Even the Guardian’s Michael White suggests the Beeb tends to be a little slow to admit its mistakes.
UPDATE 2: Brand has quit.
UPDATE 3: Sorry, but just one final thought on this: the Beeb are making much of the fact that Radio 1 listeners don’t see what the fuss is about – it’s a generational thing, innit – the logic being that if enough people think it’s funny then it’s okay to ring up someone to inform them that you’ve f***ed their granddaughter. And then broadcast the results against their wishes. I think I understand the principle the Beeb is trying to develop, but I’m a little unsure of how it’s meant to be applied: is it only former cast members of Fawlty Towers we can do it with, or any license fee payer? And is it just granddaughters, or are they allowed to ring me to inform me that one of their staff members has f****ed by daughter – provided, of course, that the youth audience chortle?
and it gets worse.. MUCH MUCH worse
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1081528/Just-vile-Brand-Ross-joked-air-breaking-Andrew-Sachs-home-sexually-abuse-slept.html
In the sequence, which followed their obscene call to the Fawlty Towers actor, the pair are recorded ‘joking’ about performing a sex act on the 78-year-old while he slept.
They claim it would ‘make him feel better’ about what Brand and Ross had said by breaking into his home and pleasuring him while he slept.
I’d be delighted if Trey Parker and Matt Stone phoned me up out of the blue to take the mickey. They’d be funnier than Brand and Wossy, too (although Brand’s ‘sorry’ song was pretty good).
I think the problem with the Daily Mail is it exposes the stupidity and hypocrisy of the Lefite luvvies and the Hard Left without really caring whether we or they approve or not. Their large circulation figures show how many ordinary people are comfortable with a paper that expresses some pertinent but rabid views. I think it’s shit but I only do crosswords anyway
Hugh – for ideological reasons rather than commercial (which drives much of the newscorp agenda). Like this site, it considers the philosophy of the BBC and its method of funding to be beyond the pale.
Surprised you didn’t know that.
Daily Mail editor , from 2007
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2007/jan/23/dailymail.uknews
“Daily Mail editor accuses BBC of indulging in cultural Marxism”
The issue now surely is that this has blown wildly out of all proportion; beyond the significance of the incident
I would tend to agree, just like George Osborne last week. Perhaps THAT is the reason so many are out to kick the BBC on this one. They see it as payback time.
odd thing is – isnt Paul Dacre a personal friend of Gordon Brown?
could Brown himself be pissed off with the BBC?
( cant blame him – remember when he went to Afghanistan and that twerp Nick Robinson asked him about Labour party soap opera bollocks -while Brown is standing right next to the Afghan President…)
Perhaps THAT is the reason so many are out to kick the BBC on this one. They see it as payback time.
Roland Deschain | 29.10.08 – 4:34 pm
i would agree. the Osborne thing was so obviously spin to get Mandy off the hook… its was utterly blatant.
and giving the BBC a good kicking is always enjoyable anyway…
Roland – agreed on the yacht coverage, both Georgie and Mandy sides of it.
http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thread.jspa?sortBy=2&forumID=5560&edition=1&ttl=20081029155217&#paginator
pointed out by a HYS commenter:
“The first two rules for the BBC Messageboards state:
Do not post messages which are racist, sexist, homophobic, sexually explicit or abusive
Do not use swear words or other language likely to offend”
one rule for us…
I’m with Roland on this. It’s like nailing Al Capone for tax evasion rather than multiple murder, but if it throws the State Broadcaster into disarray, bring it on. And it was fantastic to see the BBC acting like a rabbit in the headlights, paralysed as to what to do as the story gained momentum – just like the various politicians the BBC have hounded and harried over the years until they finally give up the ghost. Payback time!
even piers morgan is jumping on the bandwagon.. and he’s a labour supporter..
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1081388/PIERS-MORGAN-Brand-just-sex-obsessed-ex-junkie–Its-Ross-BBC-sack-today.html
morgan makes some good points in the above article:
Then I read the transcript of their answering machine messages to Andrew Sachs, and realised this was, in fact, a pre-planned, carefully choreographed, piece of alleged ‘comedy’.
And, even more astonishingly, that it was enacted on a pre-recorded show, and had therefore been edited before being broadcast.
At which point my bemusement turned to utter incredulity.
Because that meant these ‘clowns’, along with other unnamed but equally culpable BBC producers, presumably played back these sickening calls later, and rather than feel ashamed, collectively concluded: ‘That was hilarious, let’s now allow millions of people hear us degrade and humiliate this old man.’
simon: 3:53 pm
It wasn’t that vulgar – he just said that he’d f****d his granddaughter!! His granddaughter works as a stripper for Satanic sluts – I’m sure she’s heard worse!!
It’s a joke – just a joke – that’s all. If you don’t like it don’t listen to it.
a) So why doesn’t every use of the f-word get 18,000 and counting complaints?
b) ‘She’ didn’t hear it, the messages were left on a 78 year old’s answer machine (I thought you listened to the program)?
c) She may have heard worse, does that mean we all have?
d) Jokes are funny. This was not.
e) The two of them really are sub-prime entertainers. They should be on a sub-prime channel or even better on the dole.
f) I didn’t listen to it. I already don’t listen to a lot of BBC crock. How much do I not have to listen to before I get a rebate?
g) And on the above logic, I don’t like Gordon Brown, should I not listen to him. Should I not vote. Should I not care when some old granny gets mugged becasue it doesn’t affect me?
h) Have you ever wondered what entertainment we might have if just part of that 6 million quid was spent trying to find new talent.
i) I bet you’d be front of the queue complaining if somebody like Bernard Manning had a show in TV/radio.
j) If ‘If you don’t like it don’t listen to it’ is the only answer you have, come back when you’re at least an adolescent.
“His granddaughter works as a stripper for Satanic sluts – I’m sure she’s heard worse!!”
she’s on record as saying that she doesnt give a stuff about what people say about her or to her directly – its that her granddad was involved thats so upsetting to her.
and another thing – what woman in the UK is going fall for the “charms” of Mr Brand now? knowing that he might call up their grandparents…
watch out for Brand leaving for America to forge a “new career”…
oh wait. he cant do that either can he?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1053407/Russell-Brands-retarded-cowboy-jibe-George-Bush-shocks-MTV-audience.html
fantastic. just what the wanker deserves…
Whats the difference between a ‘prank call’ and an ‘obscene call’?
The BBC say the two BBC presenters were suspended because of a prank! Aaaah jolly japes eh? no harm no foul, it was only a joke, ha ha er ha!
A prank is a bit of harmless fun whereas an obscene phonecall is bullying a helpless victim and the object is to cause hurt, pain and distress to the victim.
Of course if the BBC is fined then guess who pays the fine? Ooooh yeah, the taxslave pays the fine just as they pay the over inflated wages of two boorish thugs!
THE BBC: WE GIVE THE THICK PROLES THEIR LOWBROW TRASH SO WE CAN FILL WHATS LEFT OF THEIR TINY BRAINS WITH SOCIALIST PROPAGANDA!
a) because not every use of the f-word gets plastered over the front page of the right-wing tabloids
b) why on earth does it matter that he’s 78? do we all lose our sense of humour and turn into Mary Whitehouse with age? The man’s most famous role was a very funny but very offensive ethnic minority character in a very funny but very offensive comedy show…
c) no, but then you weren’t listening to RB and JR’s show. Its listeners did.
d) No, this was funny. Broadcasting it without Sachs’ approval was wrong, but the whole set-up *is* funny – it’s exactly the same joke as Fawlty Towers’ Germans sketch (still can’t work out whether that’s deliberate, in which case it’s especially funny). Out-of-context quotes don’t do it justice, but – if you find ‘cringeworthily inappropriate comments made by a character who can’t help it because he’s been told not to make them, followed by apologies that only make things worse’ funny, then this narrative works.
e) the public would disagree: even if the Beeb fires them, they’ll both end up with high-paid contracts elsewhere because a lot of people like them.
f) you could always not get a telly, then you wouldn’t have to pay owt.
g) if an old lady is mugged, that harms her and hence is bad
h) inclined to agree with you here – JR and RB should now be on commercial TV anyway – the only reason to keep them on the BBC would be to attract viewers to something worthy and interesting that otherwise wouldn’t get watched, which isn’t happening
i) can’t speak for them, but I certainly wouldn’t. His India TV series shortly before his death (BBC I think) was deeply moving – he was clearly a decent-ish chap unable to understand the world he now lived in
j) done to death here, but there’s clearly *some* point to that POV.
Iain Dale is spot on. There is too much focus on the puppets( Ross/Brand ) and not enough on the obscure puppeteers( ??? ) who are ultimately responsible.
Knobheads like Messrs Ross and Brand there will always be. The challenge is for those in charge to filter them and their content accordingly.
“what woman in the UK is going fall for the “charms” of Mr Brand now?”
Lol at the Victorian
“A very offensive ethnic minority character”? Which planet are you from?
The one where Sachs played Manuel in Fawlty Towers. You?
“A very offensive ethnic minority character”?
Please do tell why.
Err, by portraying Spanish people as stupid, inept and cringing?
john b: What utter rubbish. The BBC is a joke as as someone who is forced to pay your wages I’m entitled to object to the crap pumped out by the BBC.
We’ve only heard ‘some’ of the abuse that these two dickheads pumped out.
If you want to defend your employer, then at least come up with a half decent excuse. Quite simply the BBC are scum.
john b: Which TV station put Fawlty Towers on the air in the first place?
I think he was playing somebody who hadn’t yet learned the English language (it’s what they speak in Torquay).
You must be quite a nasty chap to think “can’t speak English = thick”.
Ross says he’s left the BBC “without rancour”. So Brand not following presumably.
Over on Guido
http://www.order-order.com/
Under the ‘Ross & Brand Suspended’ heading read the comments by Stanislav who sums it up perfectly.
Unfortunately, I reckon the 25-year-old ‘producer’ is going to be the fall guy in all of this. And although he or she probably wears tight jeans, Emo glasses, a kaffiyeh, and listens to Razorlight (or whatever the latest talentless bunch of semi-literate morons and their risible excuse for music ability’s band is called), it’s really not fair.
I’m forced to pay for the worthless bloated bag of shite that is the BBC, and I (and most of the public if the complaints and Sky News’ poll is anything to go by) want to see the pre-op. tranny drug addict and the wanker with the speech impediment – along with the Guardian-reading gobshite producer and whoever else took leave of their tiny Media Studies-trained minds and gave this example of cretinism the green light – sacked. Or, failing that – shot out of a cannon into a vat of week-old rat semen. I’m not fussy.
Let them go, ‘z0mg teh daily mailz!!1!LOL’ but let them do it at the Job Centre whilst perusing adverts for abattoir-cleaning jobs (they’ll need some training to reach the requisite skill-level), not, say, in a studio polluting the EM spectrum with their degeneracy on my fucking dime.
John B said: “Broadcasting it without Sachs’ approval was wrong, but the whole set-up *is* funny – it’s exactly the same joke as Fawlty Towers’ Germans sketch…”
Fawlty Towers was fiction. Leaving messages on Andrew Sach’s answer machine and then broadcasting them on national radio was not.
Brand wasn’t even being original with this – he’s done similar with Rod Stewart except it really didn’t go down well with the man. Stewart called him on it and made Brand look even more of a prat.
To broadcast this seemingly without the explicit permission of Sach’s is beyond a joke. What a bizarre corporation the BBC must be if it’s employees and contractors need to be told that they must be honest and should behave with decency.
It’s a joke – just a joke – that’s all. If you don’t like it don’t listen to it.
simon | 29.10.08 – 3:53 pm |
I don’t like it, I don’t listen to it, and I don’t see why I should have to pay for it – do you, Simon?
Just heard Sachs getting doorstepped, avoiding all the stuff the press were trying to put into his mouth.
“I’m not collecting apologies” “I’ve had two lovely letters from Russell and Jonathon” “It’s not up to me to say what is broadcastable” “Standards may not have slipped, just changed”
Finished with, “Now, I’m just going to try to get inside to see my dogs again”
“Sorry, Mr Sachs”
“No you’re not.”
Brand has resigned. YES!!!! We get a Beeboid the boot.
Shame it wasn’t Ross, but this arsehole will do.
Today is a good news day.
Brand has quit, apparently.
Susan Franklin | 29.10.08 – 5:46 pm |
“Stanislav who sums it up perfectly”.
excellent post by Stan. He’s right too is his postscript – don’t pay the licence
update – russell brand has quit the bbc..
(irish radio)
Points.
Andrew Sachs and his granddaughter are private citizens.
Ross and Brand were making the phone call in the course of their jobs.
The BBC is a public corporation.
This was not a PRANK,this was perpetrated by two talentless individuals exploiting private citizens to earn money.
Martin | 29.10.08 – 6:58 pm
oops sorry martin.. you got to it first.
awesome day.
i will gladly hang brand’s scalp in a frame, on my wall.
the fuckers are getting their comeuppance… and about time too..
That’s a shame. Other way round i could have repeated my “without rancour” joke which no-one laughed at.
Tin hat on, I must say i thought Brand’s R2 show was very good, second only to Elaine Page’s.
This was not a PRANK,this was perpetrated by two talentless individuals exploiting private citizens to earn money.
Garden Trash | 29.10.08 – 7:13 pm
who also support left wing causes while earning millions themselves. all funded by the taxpayer.
and yet hedge fund guys are supposed to be evil.
i swear to god – if i was some celeb earning 50 million in the private sector, i’d just take a 100k stint at the bbc. i wouldnt milk it.. because i would know that working class folks are funding the bbc.
the lack of morality is apparent – especially in the actions of these two. all “left wing” when it suits them.. but very Marie Antoinette in their lifestyle…
fuck em.. i’ve got a lampost.. anyone care to bring some rope.
Err, by portraying Spanish people as stupid, inept and cringing
john b | Homepage | 29.10.08 – 5:21 pm |
Ho Ho a BBC employee/supporter.
Pray tell what do you think about Spanish TV running Faulty Towers, only in their dubbed version Manuel was portrayed as an Italian.
Take your stupid ‘racist inuendo’ allegations and shove then up the nearest BBC felcher’s arse
Tin hat on, I must say i thought Brand’s R2 show was very good, second only to Elaine Page’s.
mikewineliberal | 29.10.08 – 7:16 pm
dont take the piss. it makes your position get deeper into the cesspool “woss” swamp
c4 snowmail… just got it…
Greetings all, Alex T here.
I’ve been out of the country for a few days. So, it seems, has Mark Thompson, the BBC boss. I mention this only insofar as it is possible that he, like me, might have been struck by the peculiarly British affair: Ross and Brand Gate.
All the elements were firmly in place when I finally heard about this late last night (I’ve been way up in the hills miles from all this) – Mail on Sunday … BBC like rabbit caught in headlights despite their enormous size … more tabloid outrage … rent-a-quote MPs further upping outrage … and then the prime minister.
And so to the predictable denouement: BBC bosses wake up late and suspend the duo pending further investigations.
The duo meanwhile begin to apologise. The complaints count now approaches 16,000 or more.
So, two of the biggest names in broadcasting are in deep do-do. But Andrew Sachs, in a dignified statement, says he doesn’t want to call the police.
Notwithstanding the numbers of people complaining (after the matter was brought to their attention by the tabs) some must just be laughing out loud at this.
I refer to the likes of Roy Chubby Brown et al who have been ploughing the furrow of extreme comedy quite outside the realms of broadcasting.
Like ’em or loath ‘em, they are undeniably popular and, for all the noise, a hell of a lot of people will tonight be thinking what on earth are the prime minister, MPs and indeed Channel 4 News doing with this.
Equally • these are big names. The BBC is funded by a peculiar and very public tax so we all have a stake and it has to play by different rules.
“I refer to the likes of Roy Chubby Brown et al who have been ploughing the furrow of extreme comedy quite outside the realms of broadcasting.”
typical dumbass MSM – my answer is
BECAUSE ROY CHUBBY BROWN IS NEVER ON THE MSM!!!
and i dont pay a license fee to fund his lifestyle..
THATS WHY…
jeez.. are these media types really that fucking dumb?
Chubby Brown was in the brilliant League of Gentleman. Had one of the funniest lines in comedy history.
mwl – came across one hell of a joke today…
c4 sent an asian guy to “report” on a bernard manning gig..
manning sees yer man – and comes out with..
“i went to a muslim strip club once.. the blokes were screaming – show us your face”
asian guy in stiches.. went back to c4 and had to admit it.
mwl – by “liberal” who are you? i suppose lib dem?
and if you are diving in and giving counter arguments to the rest of us what is your stance on certain issues – like israel? or abortion? or high or low taxes?
or are you just a labour droid , programmed to rabbit on about the labour way, just like Winston Smith.
you have read 1984 , i hope…
archduke: Yep and who says kicking up a fuss doesn’t work?
well this week has prooved that kicking up a fuss does work.
about bloody time too.