Hilarious conversation with Hazel Blears and John Humphrys about new policy against political correctness. (Inability to mention certain things.) This new policy of abandoning political correctness, (Unfortunately P.C. prevents us from saying out loud what we really mean,) is, for some coincidental reason, designed to prevent radicalisation.
Up till now political correctness has prevented us from making jokes about the Irish, Welsh or Scots. (To name just a few.)
“Of course we mustn’t allow racist jokes. People will say we don’t want any part of that. Because it’s not even funny’ (Well, not always)
“Muslims are not offended by us celebrating Christmas! We celebrate their rituals, after all.”
“Sorry, political correctness prevents us from telling us exactly who we’re afraid will be radicalised. “
Up till now political correctness has prevented us from making jokes about the Irish, Welsh or Scots. (To name just a few.)
“Of course we mustn’t allow racist jokes. People will say we don’t want any part of that. Because it’s not even funny’ (Well, not always)
“Muslims are not offended by us celebrating Christmas! We celebrate their rituals, after all.”
“Sorry, political correctness prevents us from telling us exactly who we’re afraid will be radicalised. “
‘Political Correctness is cultural Marxism’ is something of a meaningless statement I’m afraid, and only really serves the purpose of attempting to tar the PC movement with the dreaded ‘communist’ label. Marxism is all about wealth, and inequality, and a changing social justice. Political correctness is more to do with the issue of tolerance – tolerance of those who are different to the majority. Marxism as an ideology is not particularly tolerant – so therefore I do not feel (according to my own interpretation) that it is fair to describe political correctness as marxist.
“Political correctness is more to do with the issue of tolerance”
To who? PC is not tolerant it is intolerant. And what is your “PC Movement”? Is it the movement which bans words like “manhole” or “blackboard” – is it the same PC movement that is very intolerant of white heterosexual married men?
Is it the same PC movement that would promote people on the colour of their skin or their gender rather than their qualifications.
Is it the same PC movement who object to any criticism of “Global Warming” or “Islamic fanaticism” – the same people who have renamed the latter “anti-Islamic activity” – If so you can keep your movement – it has failed.
Tolerance?
“Even now, for the first time in their lives, people have to be afraid of what they say. This has never been true in the history of our country. Yet today, if you say the “wrong thing,” you suddenly have legal problems, political problems, you might even lose your job or be expelled from college. Certain topics are forbidden. You can’t approach the truth about a lot of different subjects. If you do, you are immediately branded as “racist”, “sexist”, “homophobic”, “insensitive”, or “judgmental.”
http://www.rfcnet.org/archives/weyrich.htm?
Indeed.
Hi Jon,
you raise a good point, there are ‘extremist’ PC people if you will, you worry about ‘black market concert tickets’ or ‘snowmen’ but these people are not representative of the masses, nor of those who support PC policies. These are a tiny minority of extremely misguided people who help write Daily Express headlines for them.
The goal of political correctness is tolerance. 30 years ago society accepted terms like ‘queer’, or ‘coloured’, even though these terms are offensive. The progress of political correctness has been to help remove offensive terms such as these. People are easily offended, and a lot of us offend people without trying to. We have grown up calling homosexuals ‘queer’, it was accepted once. Well, the idea of political correctness is to say; these terms are not acceptable, even if they are used in a joke, or in an innocent way, because they offend people. Society used to look down on homosexuals, for example, and that encouraged the use of negative terms. Whereas today, with the help of political correctness, we are aware of our prejudices which we never really knew we had. Therefore we as a society are more accepting of different lifestyles, and therefore more tolerant.
On your last point Jon, Political correctness has nothing to do with the global warming issue – so I am not sure why you mentioned that. I think you may be trying to make a broad point, but you are muddying diffferent issues here.
Most people still refer to ‘Islamic terrorism’ but yes, governments do try to rename things often. Calling it ‘anti-Islamic activity’ is not a term I’ve ever heard used by the PM or the BBC, so I think you are exaggerating the use of such a term there.
People who are afraid of what they say, and have to carefully watch their speech, usually do so because they are saying something that mainstream society finds inappropriate or offensive.
“It’s also worth remembering that not everything about politically correct behaviour is bad – it is helping to stamp out prejudice, bigotry and racism in our society”.
No it isn’t.It is building up a festering sense of resentment which neither the government nor it’s bitch the BBC will be able to keep a lid on.
Hi Garden Trash, that’s an interesting comment, but I’m unclear as to your point. Why is political correctness about building resentment? And resentment towards whom?
“‘Political Correctness is cultural Marxism’ is something of a meaningless statement I’m afraid, ”
Again wrong,PC is part and parcel of the cultural revolution advocated by Antonio Gramsci,the Frankfurt School and the Frence Marxist Philosophers of the last century.
The aim was to deconstruct the institutions and culture of society.It is working.
Hi Hillhunt.I’m sorry if you comprehension skills are somewhat stunted.Read it again.
No, it’s not Hillhunt in one of his transparent disguises. It’s our old-and-not-much-missed-troll gunnar (“Hi *insert name*”)
Hi guys, I’m a little confused by these last points, you seem to be mistaking me for somebody else. I notice that neither of you addressed any of my points, I just wondered why that was. They are not ‘trollish’ or off topic, they are relevant contributions to the discussion. I still did not understand your last point Garden Trash; who is building resentment towards whom? It was not very clear what you meant.
“Hi guys, I’m a little confused by these last points,”
You were always confused.If you have to ask,then you don’t understand.
I thought it was Gunnar,but it was worth a try at Hillhunt.The childlike,”But why daddy”, is Gunnar’s trademark.
My first encounter with political correctness was while looking at a penguin paperback in the early 1980’s. The book was called ‘Islam’ and the blurb on the back used the word ‘Mohammedans’: the librarian I told me that the blurb writer had got into trouble about using it: penguin had been bombarded with complaints from Muslims: in any new edition the word would be altered.
To any objective observer Mohammed founded Islam and there is as much reason to call it Mohammedanism as to refer to Buddhism, Christianity, Zoroastrianism, Confucianism et al.
To a Muslim Islam is the one true religion and has lasted for all time: the Old Testament prophets were Muslims: Jesus was a Muslim prophet (though a lesser one than Mohammed- he didn’t die on the cross by the way: he was whipped away at the last moment and at the day of judgement he will break the cross and kill the Christians). Muslims believe that the scriptures used by Jews and Christians are either part forgeries or have been tampered with to leave out the Muslim angle.
Put like that how can anyone be so impolite to the true believers as to imply that their religion was founded by Mohammed. Islam, submission to the way that has always existed, however imperfectly before the arrival of god’s final messenger is clearly the only dignified term for such a sublime phenomenon.
Mohammedanism is clearly more inconvenient to type but it was for a reason that it was used as a synonym for Islam and regarded as such up until the 1970’s. Nowadays dictionaries will often describe it as semi-obsolete.
An early jihad victory in the PC struggle for thought control.
Gunter you really are an intensley humourless drone. Like most PC simpletons you always peddle your philosophy like you have a stick up your arse. Your postings are the written equivilent of a knock on the door by the jehovahs witnesses.
I’m with martin on this. Do please go back to the student uni bar and discuss your lightweight politics with the rest of your homosexual friends.
Hi Ratass Shagged,
I’ve noticed that you, along with Garden Trash, have not only ignored my comments, but have failed to respond to my views? If your views were correct then you would have no trouble pointing out where I am wrong.
The fact that you are ignoring the subject matter makes it appear to observers that you cannot win on the issue, and that you cannot respond. Thus you resort to personalising it and avoiding the issue completely.
“..30 years ago society accepted terms like ‘queer’, or ‘coloured’, even though these terms are offensive”
“Queer is an Exclusive gay lifestyle café bar on Canal Street offering a modern, contemporary space at the heart of Manchester gay village. Chilled music played daytime and full on club style in the evenings. ”
http://www.queer-manchester.com/
Or
http://www.queeryouth.org.uk/community/
So these people don’t subscribe to PC then?
And since when has “coloured” been offensive? Wasn’t “Black” offensive once?
“..there are ‘extremist’ PC people if you will, you worry about ‘black market concert tickets’ or ‘snowmen’ but these people are not representative of the masses, nor of those who support PC policies.”
I don’t know where you work – but the PC brigade in Government is extremist – I have seen it at first hand – and I have suffered for it.
“Therefore we as a society are more accepting of different lifestyles, and therefore more tolerant.”
No we are not accepting of different lifestyles – only PC ones (or murderous ones). If you are banned from saying what you believe then society is not tolerant – who judges what is tolerant and what is not? You, Me? So in your PC world free speech is not allowed? In case you offend. In the PC world Geert Wilders is offensive but Abu Hamza al-Masri is not. “Ethnic Minorities” are allowed to be racist but you are not.
“Primary school receptionist ‘facing sack’ after daughter talks about Jesus to classmate”
This is offensive.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/religion/4590870/Primary-school-receptionist-facing-sack-after-daughter-talks-about-Jesus-to-classmate.html
But this is not
“Council education bosses have teamed up with the Muslim Council of Britain to use new resource packs supporting the teaching of Islam in primary schools.”
http://www.stockportexpress.co.uk/news/s/500/500478_borough_kids_first_to_get_muslim_lessons.html
Hi Jon, thank you for replying. Yes there are some homosexuals who enjoy being known as ‘queer’, and there are many black people who like to be known as a ‘nigger’, but that alone does not make it okay for everyone to use them terms. Because some people chose to take insulting terms and ‘reclaim’ them, as a mark of pride and identification, does not justify the rest of society to use these terms in everydaylife.
Hi Jon, the case of the little girl at school is about an over zealous approach to political correctness. Does one incident like that mean that all political correctness is wrong? No, it means one person over stepped the mark.
Gunter | 26.02.09 – 12:44 am |
Why? Does this mean that only some people can use words and others can’t? Its a ridiculous argument – Either the word is offensive or it is not.
I am offended by the BBC, constantly by their foul – mouthed drama, why don’t you ban that?
Islamic terrorists offend me are you going to ban that – or just pretend it doesn’t exist in case the terrorists are offended.
No I’m sorry I cannot buy into your soft PC. It only works one way.
“If your views were correct then you would have no trouble pointing out where I am wrong.”
We do,then you ask for clarification.If you do not understand,perhaps you should go back to the Tele Tubbies website.
Gunter | 26.02.09 – 12:53 am |
No Gunter – you don’t understand – you cannot overstep the mark – because there isn’t one – it has nothing to do with being offended – it is more to do with “self guilt”.
This is not an isolated case – it happens every day all over the country. Its not one over zealous person but a guilt ridden elite who are on some mission to offend the majority.
Gunter: how can I put this succinctly?
Ah yes: I do not care if ‘minorities’ are offended by what the majority says: particularly, if those minorities are self-selecting, for example, ‘travellers’, immigrants, lifestyle homosexuals, adherents of unconventional religious cults and so many others.
If you choose to take part in a freak show, why complain when you’re called a freak?
And, anyway, this isn’t about the freaks, is it, ‘Gunter’? It’s about the tiresomely normal who make their careers out of being hand-wringing proxies on their behalf.
The real freaks really don’t give a damn.
GCooper | 26.02.09 – 1:01 am |
To the PC – he is always right – argument is not allowed. To argue against Political Correctness shows that you are offensive. Free Speech is not a PC phrase.
Hi guys, these are some very valid points you are making, and it is good to have your input like this. It is true that a lot of people do take on the cause for minority groups in a fit of guilt, yes some minorities are ‘self-selecting’, thats a terrific point. Do you accept that Britain is a more tolerant state though as a result of political correctness? I take your points on board, and we should discuss them further, but I am of the belief that political correctness as a whole is benefitting Britain by making society more open and less discrminatory.
“Do you accept that Britain is a more tolerant state though as a result of political correctness?”
No it is not – if people are forced to accept things against their will – then how can that be tolerance – it is the opposite. If I am not allowed to say what I think in case it offends, how is that tolerant. If I do not want “alternative” lifestyles in my face, but dare not argue against them how is that tolerant.
As I have said before in PC only some lifestyles and opinions are tolerated but not all. So how is that tolerant.
Hi Jon, nice to read your comment. Give me an example to demonstrate your point; something you want to say in public that is not ‘acceptable’ as a result of political correctness?
In PC all cultures are equal – are they not? Well in my culture, sex before marriage is wrong, homosexuality is a sin. Are you going to respect my culture? And my right to speak out against those who sin against it?
Yes, if those are your views, then PC behaviour tells us to respect them.
Another isolated case
“STOCKHOLM, July 5, 2004 (LifeSiteNews.com) – Ake Green, the pastor of a Swedish Pentecostal church in Kalmar, Sweden, has been sentenced to one month in prison by a Swedish court, for inciting hatred against homosexuals. Green was prosecuted in January for “hate speech against homosexuals” for a sermon he preached last summer citing Biblical references to homosexuality”
http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2004/jul/04070505.html
This is Biased BBC. Gunter is a troll.
That’s one minority we can certainly do without,
GCooper | 26.02.09 – 1:27 am |
I think your right.
This is Biased BBC- Gunnar is back.
“Hi Jon”.
The main thrust of political correctness is to insist that all cultures are equal, have equal sway in Britain. They should not, in my view. The main culture is the culture of the Brits themselves – the indigenous Brits. The rest are valid as cultures, but they should not rate equally with ours.
For instance – the PC trend is to indoctrinate schoolchildren with all manner of stuff about Islam. My grandchidren’s RE books are full of it. More of their written work is about Islam than about Christianity – and there is nothing about other minority faiths. But the whole treatment of Islam is sanitised. Per contra, there is uproar if anyone seeks to explain Christianity – let alone profess Christianity – to any Muslim children.
It has been PC to argue that immigration is all good, that there should be few restraints.
Likewise it is PC to say that the police are institutionally racist. It is PC to say that a foreigner who was clearly mixing with terrorists should be allowed back into our country. It is PC to rate the homosexual lifestyle as something that young children should be taught about.
All this is offensive to the core indigenous culture. It goes way beyond tolerance, which is commendable. The PC brigade tries to force its views on the majority, and then wonders why the BNP collects sizeable votes.
Jeez, Gunter, where the heck are you from? Mars?
Hi Gunnar (err, Gunther).
Political correctness is purely on the side of proscriptive intolerance. It takes it upon itself to define what is “appropriate” and “inappropriate”, “acceptable” and “inacceptable” language and behaviour, and then imposes its value judgements on us. And it does this PURELY on those of us who live in western liberal democracies. It never rules on whether Arabs, for example, are being “inappropriate” in referring to Jews as “apes and pigs” or any non-mohammedan as a ‘Khuffir’.
Political correctness has decidedly NOT brought about the slightest change in a “more tolerant” direction. It has moved in precisely the opposite direction, bringing about a far more INtolerant society, afraid of debating or even mentioning those topics that to the politically correct thought police have been declared ‘off topic’.
Gunter/Gunner/Colin chase/Hillhunt: Why do I need to respect a bunch of bushy beared savages who have medevil views and want to blow us all up?
Oh that includes twats like you by the way. Shrapel/nails/glass doesn’t avoid leftie loons you know.
Confused about PC ? I was until I read this.
The Rules of Political Correctness
“Many people find Political Correctness confusing. It can be so hard to know what to say, especially when poor oppressed minorities are fighting each other. But you just have to follow a few simple rules and you’ll soon be ready to work in the public sector, dine with the intelligentsia, or even write a column for The Guardian. What’s more, you’ll have a complete belief system that is impervious to rational argument and which guarantees you permanent moral superiority without any effort. You just have to remember the following:
Rule One: Humanity can be neatly divided into a small number of groups, based on race, gender, sexual orientation and class. The world isn’t nearly as complex as people say. ”
Read the 10 rules of PC at
http://www.randomnotes.co.uk/Opinions/Rules.htm
The phrase “politically correct” was invented by an American female professor in a book-review in 1984. She meant it quite seriously — “We have a duty to be politically correct” — by which she meant correct by the standards of leftists and feminists. Anyone who does not accept those standards is therefore “incorrect”. So much for tolerance.
In this country, it is mainly enforced by those people employed at the soft end of the public sector, including the BBC. However, such people’s salaries are not paid for by leftists and feminists. They are paid for out of general taxataion.
The solution to this problem is to privatise or abolish outright the public-sector institutions which promote political correctness, including the BBC. Then they can peddle their wares in the open market, and we will see how far their ideology is “acceptable” to the British people.
Just reading the posts here, I am amazed so many of you are actually debating with “Gunter” ! It is a waste of time.
Grant,
Just a bit of plinking.
At least let Gunter debate it IS part of free speech which we are all for.
I agree with many of the posts here about P.C.
I am 35, have traditional values,I wouldn’t call myself racist, probably like most people, I suppose PC has worked to a certain extent.
At its core it is very serious and is simply about manners.
Yet I have a strong Christian morals, and I really find it offensive in the extreme that my religion is squashed out, and even found offensive by the PC brigade. My morals are disgusting, in that, I am not sure what to think about gays, some of my favourite people are, actors, etc. whom I respsect for their abilities and pleasure they have given, it obviously doesn’t affect them, but I am not sure it is NATURAL, I suppose in the fallen world we live in, it is a consequence of that, I don’t hate them, I don’t think they are sinners that will burn in hell, but I am uncomforable with it, I am sure many people feel the same, yet PC is intolerant in that it treats me as facistic in that sense, intolerant isn’t the word, I would say it despises my type, which is not PC in tself, the stupid twats can’t see that, that to be truly pPC all must be allowed equal, which they are not.
Its whites thinking up the rules, no other religions are offended by other practises, we accept they are free to pursue their own, that’s the travesty that this country is now.
i am not racist, I have a chinese GF, I like muslims I have met, but I am uncomfortable about my culture being totally altered, I loved my country and tradiitons and its now being eliminated, I am sad for that, and to speak against it I am the very devil incarnate.
The thing is, no-where else would allow that, muslim countries would think we are mad changing our culture this way, riding roughshod over the indiginous population, telling them they are evil because they don’t want masses of pockets of foreign communities, yes some are ok, but not this far.
The working classes are still largely racist as are the upper classes, its only the middles largely who have to abide by the poison mantras
sawtooth seems particularly correct, I recall at school, pc was just coming in and the diagnoses of it seems very accurate.
I do sense people are more pissed with labour than ever before, and the recession, or as it would like to be known, temporary credit crunch, should put end to this filthy govt., but who will replace them? the tories seem to have few policies, cameron is keeping silent, perhaps a stroke of genius not to get overly political as people are sick of that, but take it too far and they will be a weak force and not seen fit to be in power either, so the old guard may well creep back in.
whoever would have thought it, PC is peeing people off everywhere, it is selling, no giving our country and traditions away, whilst calling any opposers evil, and ousting them whilst destroying lives and carees, the most intolerant soul destroying solution, obliterate them, and the damage it does is colossal.
would any other country give itself away without a fight? what would the people who died in the wars think? betrayed.
ahh further analysis, they HAVE to target the white middle classes, they are the inherent evils, they have to be challenged, why? the working classes will continue to do largely manual jobs, or be unemployable in our capitalist success driven society, whilst the upper classes, and super rich don’t work either, so they target the white middle classes as they are the public sector workers…mmmostly.
people tolerate it, as its their employers and they pay them so they abide by the rules, no matter how much they dislike them, talk about hypocrites, one rule whilst they are on show, another in private. hmmph
Hi Ian, thanks for your post. You make some well thought out comments. Being opposed to PC does not make one a racist, that is clear. Yes, Christian morals are being squeezed out of modern British society – but one of the main reasons for that is the increasing secularisation of society. In my view this is a good thing. In the 50s and 60s schoolchildren were told they would go to hell if they did not attend church – do people seriously want to return to those days of scaring children into believing in religion?
Just read Geerts speech, fascinating, no wonder he wasn’t allowed here.
From the ashes of Pim Fortayne?
Begs the question, if the loonies do love womens and gay rights, then why fill it with an intolerant religion that will seek to eliminate that?
he’s right, they can call death to jews on the streets and little happens, but a simple man isn’t allowed to give a speech?
we are down a dangerous road indeed.
secularisation is another bad thing, I am afraid, its responsible for a lot of the loony stuff going on too. do you really want to see an end to xmas cards, festive decorations, church bells? that’s what it wants, its another intolerant dogman that’s PC’s evil twin
I think people should celebrate their own religions and traditions, but society should not promote religion, nor force it down our throats. No one is suggesting an end to christmas cards or decorations, no-one has mentioned anything along those lines. The difference today, as opposed to 40 years ago, is that the state was linked tightly to the church – and so church had a huge power over society. To me, the biggest benefit of the PC era has been to see the church’s power over society eroded. This has led to people thinking more about their beliefs, as opposed to being told what to believe, and being told that anything else was simply wrong. Now, there has been one problem of modern secular society in my view; religion provides moral guidlines (all religions) and with the disappearance of religion from British society, those moral guildines have been tossed out too. That’s the downside; a vacuum was created, and nothing came along to replace it. I just wondered if you shared my view on that?
Thanks
Gunter
I went to school in the 1950s. Several schools, all strongly Christian.
NEVER was I told that if I did not go to church I would go to hell.
You are talking claptrap.
This piece discusses whether increasing support for the BNP is a racist thing – or a cultural thing. Some of the comments are interesting.
My sense is that a lot of the votes for the BNP are cultural – the indigenous folk expressing real anger about the way their culture is being trashed.
I think there could be some really heavy votes for the BNP in the European elecions in June. In one sense, this is very depressing. But in another – it is “when the worm turns”.
And the more the BBC portrays BNP voters as trash – the more they will see the BBC as trash.