I suppose it was inevitable that with this being St Patrick’s Day the BBC would provide a forum on Thought for the Day to eulogise the immoral “peace process” and it did not disappoint. We had Tom Butler on to mouth the usual platitudes whilst studiously ignoring the fact that the republican “dissidents” killing in 2009 are no different to those who started killing in 1969 but which the BBC treats as heroes 40 years later.
WHEN IRISH EYES ARE SMILING…
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Pity it was Tom Butler rather than Hubert Butler.
Was that Tom Butler, the bishop who lost his way after drinks at the Irish Embassy, perchance.
If so, then let us grant he may know what he’s talking about. . .
RR | 17.03.09 – 11:19 am
Pity it was Tom Butler rather than Hubert Butler.
Glad to see the great man is not forgotten.:+:
Great man indeed! Roy Foster’s very good on him.
Tom Butler on one TFTD made the astonishing claim that the CofE, being both Catholic and Reformed, really is superior to any other church.
I guess that’s why liberals like the CofE. That and the money.
Attempting to bring about peace is immoral?
“Attempting to bring about peace is immoral?”
No, of course not. I suppose he simply doesn’t realise that, by sharing power with the gunmen, this government has abandoned any prospect of a lasting peace which respects the rights and aspirations of ordinary people.
There’ll just be further armed truces, punctuated by further violent episodes as the crime gangs clash. We were of course warned about this at the time by Kevin Myers, among others.
“the republican “dissidents” killing in 2009 are no different to those who started killing in 1969 but which the BBC treats as heroes 40 years later”
true “morally” a killer is a killer and murder is murder, but in 1969 the killers were part of a community genuinely persecuted by a thoroughly unpleasant and shameful system of discrimination and had the overwhelming support of their community and most of Ireland.
Last week’s killers have every opportunity to better themselves, have minority support in their community (although it seems more than the media will admit) and next to zero in the rest of Ireland.
Cockney,
The killers of 2000 people don’t walk away from the consequences of their brutality as easy as that. No one has the right to slaughter as the IRA did and I reject your point.
“but in 1969 the killers were part of a community genuinely persecuted by a thoroughly unpleasant and shameful system of discrimination”
I dont think this is true.
“had the overwhelming support of their community”
dont think thats true either
First, I agree with Mr. Vance, criminals, especially terrorists should not be able to walk away.
Secondly, last week shows that the IRA still have arms and will use them. A warning do you think, a reminder that they can still kill, so don’t mess around with us. And people still want to talk to the likes of these!
Well I agree with Cockney AND David Vance.
And no, I’m not trying to have my cake and eat it.
There was something unpleasant and discriminatory about Protestant supremacism pre-69 – the rancid sectarianism, the absurd marching bands, the silly fat bigots in their bowlers and orange sashes, the psychotic killers in their pubs along the Shankhill, ever ready to go out and butcher a Catholic taxi driver if one of the supposedly ‘constitutional’ politicians gave the sly signal for mayhem by pronouncing the Union in peril, the baying house-burning mobs and the thuggish B-Specials.
But Vance is right. That’s no excuse for murdering one innocent person or one British soldier.
Well said, Tom!
I agree with David, and I would think with everyone else, there is no justification for anyone to murder anyone. Even if the perpetrators had a valid point the murder of innocents is totally and utterly wrong. Such actions are morally wrong and undermines the cause which these murderers use
cockney.change was well under way in northern ireland in 1969.it got delayed by the re emergence of the ira and all the crap we had to go through.gerrymandering only ended in england in 1960
Best wishes. I plan to marinate some ice cubes in Jameson’s or redbreast. The process will bring me peace.
“change was well under way in northern ireland in 1969”
Rose-tinted spectacles. Don’t try the innocent victim line.
this time of year, i always love to play the game of
“see if the bbc six o clock news even mentions that its patricks day”
i guess they don’t because the calls for a st georges day would be enormous – and the beeb doesnt like nationalism.
although, with O’Bama , their chosen one, i guess they might not be able to avoid it.
esp since he dyed the white house fountain green for today.
Secondly, last week shows that the IRA still have arms and will use them. A warning do you think, a reminder that they can still kill, so don’t mess around with us. And people still want to talk to the likes of these!
Derek W. Buxton | 17.03.09 – 3:47 pm |
actually , there have been reports of the Real IRA rearming with eastern european weapons being smuggled in.
There was a case recently of a Moldovan being shot by a Moldovan gunman in Dublin recently.
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/breaking-news/ireland/moldovan-man-critical-after-west-dublin-shooting-14199426.html
my best guess : real ira are arming from eastern european gangs, based in dublin.
one of the “benefits” of EU immigration.
The killers have to be complete nutters – the Irish economy has tanked because of being tied to the Euro – and will be really in trouble when it all collapses.
Meanwhile, Euro holders can shop in Northern Ireland for good value.
Seems like they’re prepared to murder to jump out of the frying pan into the fire. Madness.
Barack O’Bama Says “Happy St Patricks”
http://www.order-order.com/2009/03/barack-obama-says-happy-st-patricks/
must admit – i really do like Obama’s put downs of Gordon Brown – he does it in such a classy way…
“Tonight will see a ceremony and a reception for almost 400 people. ”
delicious…
still no mention of paddys day on the bbc six o clock news.
( about 4 million people turned up for the parade in NYC )
So we have to ask ourselves, the following question?
Why does our establishments BBC support terrorism and seem to simply love murderous terrorist scum?
There is ONLY one logical answer, and this is it.
Our own establishment sponsored and most likely still does sponsor, The IRA, and the Loyalist paramilitaries.
Which of course has simply massive implications, that can not be under stated or estimated.
I do not propose to have an answer as to what in the hell any of us can do about it, the truth is often highly ‘inconvenient,’ to say the very least.
REMEMBER THIS.
The BBC and all of our main political parties are all as much part of The British establishment as each other. The same is true for ALL of their various agenda’s and policies.
Left, right and middle are all produces of The Establishment, and therefore almost COMPLETELY controlled and/or manipulated by same.
REAL peace is bad for the establishment, and good for us.
Which is why IMO, we will never have lasting peace during anyone’s lifetime.
Which also gos a long way in explaining why we have NEVER even come close to achieving any such thing, in the past.
Please also remember this well known fact of 70 odd years of BBC life.
If The establishment does NOT wish The BBC to do, say, or appear to believe something, the BBC will very promptly stop doing, saying, or believing WHATEVER that something is.
“Our own establishment sponsored and most likely still does sponsor, The IRA, and the Loyalist paramilitaries.”
proven with the loyalists.
and they went pretty high up in the IRA with Stakeknife.
annymous(not chuffer) mate,you need to read up on your history,check out people like terence o`neil,pm of northern ireland in the sixties.
6 o clock news ends. no mention of paddys day.
archduke
Many will ask for evidence as to my assertions. Which is far enough.
There is of course real evidence, some of which is direct, but a vast majority of it is circumstantial.
Evidence from ones own experience over time, combining with a free and just mind, being ALWAYS the most reliable. As good as everything the BBC spouts being absolutely THE most ‘unreliable’ source of understanding currently known to mankind.
As any good lawyer should tell you.
“Who needs REAL evidence, when there is clearly enough circumstantial evidence to rationally convict the world planet?”
St. Patrick’s day. The reality:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7949145.stm
Tom (3:57 pm): “There was something unpleasant and discriminatory about Protestant supremacism pre-69 …”
This sounds like republican revisionism to me.
“the rancid sectarianism” -it was of course less divided than NI is now.
“absurd marching bands, the silly fat bigots in their bowlers and orange sashes”
– Everyone is entitled to their own taste in fashion. I dont think its right to dismiss age old rituals in this way.
SUrely it would be more reasonable to view St Patrick’s day parades as bigotry?
“the psychotic killers in their pubs along the Shankhill”
– pre 69?- i think this is worng chronologically and in any case is nothing to do with the state.
“one of the supposedly ‘constitutional’ politicians gave the sly signal for mayhem by pronouncing the Union in peril”
– is this a rference to Terence O’neil? I find it rather unconvincing if so. And yes people were correct to worry about the Union.
“the baying house-burning mobs and the thuggish B-Specials”
– The B-specials may not have been an ideal means of law enforcement but were a back up force and the views of those with an agenda should not be accepted at face value. It is hardly the case that those organisations which replaced them were loved better.
It is nonsense to suggest that violence in NI was driven by gerrymandering in some areas (something I believe to be widespread in modern America).
Rather it appears it was driven by a desire for a “united Ireland” and the belief that a moderate conciliatory state could be bullied.
Perhaps claims of Protestant supremacism are projections of a desire for Catholic supremacism. Less a desire for equality and more for a stituation where protestants would be at best a marginalised, voiceless minority.
“annymous(not chuffer) mate,you need to read up on your history,check out people like terence o`neil,pm of northern ireland in the sixties.”
I am fully aware of Terence O’Neill and other moderate Unionists who knew that reform was needed. Paisley destroyed them.
Change was not “well under way”. I don’t see how it could have been given the atmosphere at the time.
Wonderful history that Northern Ireland.
Don’t worry, with the EU involved we’ll have this kind of ‘Balkan’ bitterness spread right across the European continent.
“the belief that a moderate conciliatory state could be bullied.”
Moderate! Concilatory!!! You are a comidian. Any more jokes?
Terence O’Neil did try to be conciliatory. There was no need for people to take up arms. Nothing justifies all the murders.
“Irish PM tripped by Obama’s teleprompter ” :
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090318/ap_on_go_pr_wh/obama_speech_mistake;_ylt=Aoci6qlXyDlnE1TD2YD.LSgD5gcF
Did you catch “Who Do You Think You Are?” on David Tennant. The near endless shame he expressed at being related to Irish Protestant councillors, somehow I think less shame would have needed to have been shown by someone whose ancestors were IRA supporters or members. The potted history of “The Troubles” had an interesting angle as well. Could be worthy of your analysis DV.