I’ve covered this issue elsewhere BUT the BBC have chosen to run an item critical of the speech by French President Sarkozy in which he suggested that it would be a good idea to ban the Burqa in France. He sees it as a symbol of oppression and I entirely agree with him. In fact I see it as much more than that – it is a way in which Islam tries to assert its primitive values on our culture, imprisoning women in walking shrouds. Anyway, cue BBC and up pops a human rights lawyer who spends his time fighting cases of Islamophobia in France, to slap down Sarkozy. Naturally no counter-view was allowed. It’s pathetic to see the BBC continually waste our taxes finding new and more exciting ways to excuse the pathology of Islam. Dhimmis to a man.
NO BAN ON THE BURQA
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Unlike the dhimmi BBC, the 'Daily Express' today has articles challenging the infamy of the burqa, including:
'Express':
[Opening extract]-
"IT is a city that has found itself at the heart of the debate about Muslim extremism after providing a home to three suicide bombers who brought devastation to London in the July 7 2005 attacks.
"And in Leeds yesterday the number of women clad head-to-foot in burkhas provoked anger among growing numbers who believe they should be banned.
"Groups of Muslim women dressed in the restrictive robes refused to comment on their personal reasons for wearing the garment which continues to cause controversy.
"And even though they were walking along a busy street among shoppers and workers, most refused to be seen engaging with a non-Muslim man in public.
"Leeds has a fast-growing Muslim population of at least 40,000 – double the number of 10 years ago.
"Locals say that since the 7/7 attacks in July 2005 – three of the gang hailed from Leeds – there has also been a increase in the number of Islamic women choosing to wear the burkha, much to the anger of many of the city’s inhabitants.
"German-born au-pair Chantal Manzal, 23, has been living in Leeds for a year but returns home next month.
"She said yesterday: 'I cannot believe what I have seen in Britain. In Germany the burkha is hardly ever seen but here I see women wearing them whenever I go out.
“'I find them really scary. If you can only see people’s eyes you have no idea what is going on with them. They are definitely wrong and should be banned in all public spaces'."
Yes the BBC males get erections at the thought of Islam. Look at the way Iran deals with homosexuals. Yet not a word from the BBC.
Isn't Sarko fabulous? Can you see Brown suggesting the burqa is banned? He'd sh*t hemself at the thought of suggesting it. "Quick, get the Muslim Council on the line to tell us what to think" Shows how much "fear of Muslim anger" has tainted British public debate.
Our Government is bullied by Muzzie-boys who shill for a misogynistic homophobic death cult. Oh sorry, was that hate-speech or free speech? Tony Blair's legacy to Britain.
Personally, I find offensive anyone who hides their identity whilst in public, whether by burqa or motorcycle helmet.
But that probably makes me a racist.
I'm surprised that no-one has mentioned the 5 Live phone-in this morning.
The Topic – Is Britain the most evil country in the world?
And yes – it provided ample opportunity for the usual assortments of leftists etc…to attack imperial Britain, the slave trade, Capitalism etc… One could be forgiven for thinking that Britain was the only nation on earth ever to have has had an empire or designs on foreign territory.
Why does the BBC indulge in these stupid debates?
I admit I haven't watched a BBC News slash far left opinion show for a while. Purely out of choice, and it isn't compulsory. Yet.
So I was wondering, has the BBC employed a full burka wearing on-screen news reader yet? Say on the nine o'clock news.
And if not, why not? Are they burkaphobic, or something?
Sounds like it.
And let's face it, the BBC doesn't exactly employ good-looking babes, so not seeing their faces may tempt me back.
BBC BIRDS YOU'D LIKE TO SEE IN A FULL BURKA!
Just to start y'all off
Lise Ducet
If France manages to pull this ban off it'll open up an interesting debate on how EU human rights law should be interpreted – 'cause you can bet your life any UK ban would be blown out of the water on this basis.
A debate which will no doubt not be aired on the BBC.
Re: Cockney..
The Human Rights convention seems to operate differently in each EU country….
The German Constitution for example, is explicit – If any law (EU or otherwise) contradicts the basic German law, then in Germany, the German law takes precedence. So for example, in Germany boys are required to do 12 months National Service or Community Work, while for girls there is no such requirement. Clearly this law is sexist & discriminates against boys, but Germany is not considered in to be breach of her international treaty commitments because her partners ‘understand’ the requirements of her constitution.
[I could give numerous other examples of the German GVN acting in ways, which in the UK, would be a clear reach of the Human Rights convention]
Perhaps the French have a similar legal system. Or perhaps more likely, the French judiciary are no so strict in their interpretation of the human rights convention. This is certainly the case with asylum and immigration issues. Ever wondered why the Sangate [SP?] refugees don’t ask for political asylum in France?
So don't expect the French to be hauled over the coals for this…
So basically as per usual – the UK is buggered by a combination of crap politicians, who have meekly accepted EU legal supremacy, while our partners have not, and liberal judges who haven’t got a clue.
Jack Bauer 10:41
BBC " babes in a burqa ", good idea.
How about Kirsty Wark for starters.
Oh, and Anita Anand , if they can find one big enough.
The BBC has obviously decided that Islam and the glaringly obvious benefits of a multicultural society take precedence over one of their other obsessions – glorification of an EU/France/Germany dominated Europe and how the UK miserably fails to see how wonderful it is.
It is good to see the EU slipping down the BBC rankings of 'good things' to obsess about. The bad news is that uncritical admiration for all cultures except the UK/USA Anglo-Saxon one and hysteria about climate change seem destined to stay in the top two spots for the foreseeable future.
The thing about France though is that the French have always thought of France first, then the individual.
Clearly this is at odds with Islam as that believes Islam comes first, and everything else comes second.
However, France at least has the bulwark of cultural history of French things first…hence why the Frogs can talk openly about things like this while the UK cannot.
Also, considering the Frogs have already banned scarfs from schools and all public buildings its not totally inconceivable that the Burka will get the arse too.
Mailman
@anon
France has a civil code, like most European countries, and don't have to adhere to the ECHR
Neither do we in fact, the only difference with our system is that it can be changed much more easily and was so by Blair's human rights act, which enshrined the convention in law,…but you can of course appeal to the EU high court
What would be interesting is how Brits would react to such a law – the french have a much more authoritarian history, the english principle is very much against telling people how to dress…at least officially
"Jack Bauer 10:41
BBC " babes in a burqa ", good idea.
How about Kirsty Wark for starters.
Oh, and Anita Anand , if they can find one big enough."
How about the Islamic Spice Girls in burkas, singing "Wannabe Wahhabi".
To be honest, it's too late for a ban here. It just couldn’t work.. I mean how would you enforce it? It would be pointless levying fines and community service, as the Muslim community would simply refuse to comply. Ditto prison sentences – Muslim women would be queuing up to become martyrs to the cause and as we know, there aren’t that many prison spaces left [thanks, Gordon].
I suppose we could open special internment camps, but could you really see the British public swallowing that. Besides I’m sure they’d fair no better than the immigration internment centres that are routinely damaged by the inmates. Forced repatriation could also be an option for foreign born Muslims who broke the ban, but no doubt once arrested, their families could be relied upon to destroy their papers, passports etc… and I don’t suppose many Muslim countries would co-operate with the British authorities to get duplicates etc… thus making extradition impossible.
In summation, a ban would clog up the courts; lead to even more criminals getting out early – as space is made available for the Muslim martyrs. The ban would also become a propagandising tool for the militants – look they would say, proof that Islam is being persecuted etc… The best that I think we can hope for is to fight and stop further concessions to the Islamists… and forcing the BBC to start telling the truth about Iran and other Islamic states (and militant Islam) is the start of that process.
Having said that – I have just thought of a punishment that might work – any woman found guilty of wearing a Burqa would have a photograph of her taken in a skimpy bikini… If found wearing a Burqa for a second time – said photograph would be published in the press. Or perhaps we could have parades of the guilty through the local high street etc… With more clothing removed for each repeat offence 🙂
Yes I know it’s a sick idea (+ would cause riots etc…); but you must admit, there is a sense of poetic justice about it!
PS Before anybody takes offence – Yes I am joking.
Having said that – I have just thought of a punishment that might work – any woman found guilty of wearing a Burqa would have a photograph of her taken in a skimpy bikini… If found wearing a Burqa for a second time – said photograph would be published in the press. Or perhaps we could have parades of the guilty through the local high street etc… With more clothing removed for each repeat offence 🙂
Yes I know it’s a sick idea (+ would cause riots etc…); but you must admit, there is a sense of poetic justice about it!
PS Before anybody takes offence – Yes I am joking.
To be honest, it's too late for a ban here. It just couldn’t work…
How so?
If smoking, eating, and the innumerable other things that the Health Nazis have succeeded in ramming up the arse of the compliant British public can be implented, why not.
Even so, it would form a valid legal foundation for when the caliphate Islamists and their western tools start pressing for the "right" of your local Tesco checkout girl to serve you in full burka.
Then we can legitimately say well if you don't like it here you can always go to a country where you'd feel more comfortable in your personal tent.
Was this reported on the BBC?
The burqa conceals the identity (including the sex) of the wearer. There have been cases of it being used as a disguise in robberies and one of the failed London suicide bombers used it to conceal his identity for his escape to Italy. There is a commonsense argument for banning it from all public buildings and any premises likely to be subject to robbery.
I've argued elsewhere that there are good reasons for subjecting obtrusive Muslim garb to a Public Order Act like the one of 1936, which banned political uniforms in order to clamp down on the British Union of Fascists(is it still in force?).
Wally
Anonymous @ 2:06 PM
Having said that – I have just thought of a punishment that might work – any woman found guilty of wearing a Burqa would have a photograph of her taken in a skimpy bikini… If found wearing a Burqa for a second time – said photograph would be published in the press. Or perhaps we could have parades of the guilty through the local high street etc… With more clothing removed for each repeat offence 🙂
Surely that would more likely be punishing the general public.
Maybe somebody should open up a chain of shops in every northern high street to sell these.
Of course, then we'd discover that it's really more about the oppression of women in caveman cultures that existed long before Islam. Can't have that, can we?
Problem is Wally, there would be an orchestrated campaign against any ban of the Burqa and not just from the Muslim community. This was not the case when the GVN banned smoking in public buildings etc… so what strategy would you deploy to counter-act and overcome the inevitable campaign of civil disobedience. I suppose you could take the offender to a police station, confiscate the Burqa and force them to wait for relatives and friends to deliver more suitable clothes. But the police would be forced to arrest thousands of women each day, and the protest would go on for months, how much police time is this going to take up? What happens to repeat offenders, as I mentioned before – you can be certain that the campaigners won’t pay any fines or accept community punishments and herein lays the problem. The system could cope with 50, 100 or 1000 Burqa martyrs but Muslim radicalisation has gone well beyond this number. I reckon at least 10,000 Muslim women would be prepared to go to jail (or allow their men to force them into this protest) rather than dispose of their Burqa. And we simply don’t have 10,000 spare prison places… Then there is the issue of public and international opinion. Like it or not (and I’d love to see the Burqa off our streets) a complete ban just won’t wash. However, perhaps we could start by restricting its use i.e. not in schools, banks, courts, airports etc… places where confirming identity/body language etc.. is important.
'Daily Express':
"Ban the Burkha here in Britain"
[Extract]:
"Among those welcoming the call for it to be banned was Douglas Murray, director of the Centre for Social Cohesion.
"Pointing out that using religion as an argument to keep the burkha was 'completely bogus'.
"He said: 'There is nothing in the Koran that justifies the covering of women in what amounts to a black sack.
“'There are parts which speak of modesty but not this complete covering up. This idea that it is a religious requisite is only put forward by the extremists.'
"He added that security had also to be taken into consideration."
[…]
"Turkey, a secular Muslim country, has banned headscarves in schools, universities and public offices.
"Burkhas are outlawed in three Belgian towns, while seven out of Germany’s 16 states have banned headscarves."
"Burkhas are outlawed in three Belgian towns, while seven out of Germany’s 16 states have banned headscarves."
That's not quite correct, George. Public service employees are banned from wearing headscarves but the headscarf in general is not. At least that's as far as I know.
France has an all-important distinction between the Church and the State – basically, it tells the Church to but-out of State matters, specifically education: no religious symbols worn at school, end of story.
If we introduced a ban on "covering the face" in public, only motorcyclists would have a hard time.
Sarko's next proposed act is banning face-covering during public demonstrations – ie cagoules and scarf worn by anti-capitalist demonstrators at G8 – except for legitimate purpose eg exempting theatrical performance, not rioting.
If we banned the burqa I would have arrested not the woman wearing it but her husband and or father – the real perpetrators of this obscene practice.
The woman who triggered the burqa debate in France was, I read, English and a white convert to Islam, who has previous in this country for stirring up Muslim extremists, like the niqab-wearing schoolgirl we paid Cherie Blair to defend. What a joke.
As I have opined before, we should make the extremist men wear blinkers so they are not distracted from thoughts about Allah by the sight of our scantily clad women.
Anon,
They dont need to go to goal. Fine them and keep fining them until they give up.
Could be a great revenue earner for the Government.
Mailman
I did listen to the Radio 5 phone in. Did anyone hear the first caller 'Bob' or something. Actually a Muslim who hates the west who goes by various names, usually Imran from Bradford (Talksport troll who once argued for 3 hours with Mike Mendoza then admitted live on air he'd be a suicide bomber) or Mohammad. I think he trolls the local radio stations in the north as well using differnt names.
The BBC love him. Rent a twat as I call him.
Muslim women are increasingly wearing the burqa in the West. Some do it because they are forced, but many are doing it deliberately as a provocation. Muslim women are not the innocents that many think them to be. They are just as despotic in the enforcement of sharia, as the men are. These women are telling us that they are here, and are here to conquer.
Cryptic BBC 2 'Newsnight' tailpiece squeeezed in at the end was on the BURQA (after long rambling repeat of BBC propaganda about 'climate change again).
Who, in the BBC's opinion, is the person in Britain best qualified to defend the wearing of the burqa?; -no contest – the BBC wheel out their Labour chum, Ken Livingstone, who is given carte blanche by Paxman to tell a French politician how to run France, burqa and all. Livingstone had the chutzpah to tell the French politician that Sarkozy's intention to ban the burqa was based on politics, as though Livingstone's embrace of Islam in East London wasn't! Paxman just sat back, and said nothing at this, of course.
DP 111 11:09 pm
Yes.
'Daily Mail, and Allison Pearson has:
"No, madam, it's you who have offended MY values"
[Extract]:
"On a train to London, a young woman wearing a burkha, with only her heavily made-up eyes peeping out, did not have a valid ticket.
"Challenged by the guard, the young woman gave a litany of excuses. She had left her bag at her boyfriend's, he had bought the ticket, she had no money on her…
My friend Jane, who was in the same carriage, noticed how the guard became nervous as the Muslim girl presented herself as an innocent in a society she didn't understand.
"Instead of issuing a penalty fine, the guard backed off, shrugging his helplessness at the other passengers.
"So imagine my friend's surprise when she got off at the same station as burkha girl and saw this 'penniless innocent' whip out a credit card from under the folds of her dress with which she promptly bought a Tube ticket.
Jane was so incensed she sent me a text message, explaining what she'd witnessed. It ended: 'Attack of Burkha Rage. Grrr.'
"Jane is not a BNP voter. She is a university lecturer who specialises in the developing world." ('Mail' 17 June.)
http://www.emel.com/
A rattling good read and will help you sort out all your life issues….
it needs to be pointed out , before the BBC embarks on an anti-Sarkozy "extreme right winger" ragefest, that this Burkha ban idea has actually got CROSS PARTY support in France.
"While France's Muslim Council said the proposal "stigmatised" Islam, a commission is now expected to be established on the urging of the group of 65 politicians led by André Gerin, a COMMUNIST MP"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/5580732/France-to-consider-banning-the-burqa.html
"The proposal won the support of Fadela Amara, the urban affairs minister and a women's rights campaigner whose parents were Muslims."
The best way to address it from a legal perspective would be to stop people covering the face in public or sensitive areas – you can't wear a helmet in a post office, you wouldn't get very far with a ski mask in a bank, you could be a paedophile in a school…
Socially tho the best way would be turn people's attention onto the muslim men's opinions on scantily clad women, maybe a rape case – saying 'cover up or we can't help ourselves' is bound to create another pro-woman agenda
Tarquin,
All that will do is give wymmin's rights activists another excuse to bash men, full stop. No way will any Leftoid pol or media type dare to limit this to Muslim men. No way. It'll be All Men Are Potential Rapists, etc. Any pro-woman agenda will be across the board, not focused on what Mark Thompson considers to be an oppressed minority.
I'm not against the complete ban of the burqa. In selective cases, I think it would be quite appropriate. For example, I'd like to see (or not see as the case may be) Yasmin Alibhai-Brown decked-out in a black pillar box.
"Burkha 'doesn't belong in 21st century Britain'"
That un-BBC headline appears in 'Daily Express':
[Extract] –
"THE furious split over whether or not Britain should ban the burkha deepened yesterday, with a Euro MP wading into the row.
"Liberal Democrat Chris Davies, MEP in the North-West of England, attacked burkha wearing, saying 'it does not belong in 21st century Britain'.
"The controversial garment covers a woman from head to toe and only leaves the eyes visible.
"It is worn by about 100,000 of the 2.4 million people who follow Islam here."
Manipulating dubious medical statistics is a popular way to enforce bans on things.
It worked with smoking in public places. The BBC love health scare stories. Could it work with burkhas?
Eg, wearing a burkha cuts out vital Vitamin D from the skin, leading to cancer, and the absorbtion of solar rays means anyone in close proximity will be similarly affected…will nobody think of the children…etc
I've got no objection at all to someone opposing Sarkozy's wish to ban the Burka, but like anyone who believes in democracy, I'd like the other side of the argument to be heard. Anyone who hijacks the BBC as a platform for advocacy of their viewpoint should be sacked. The BBC is run by such people. If Cameron was a real Conservative who would be pledging Parliamentary action to roll back this assault on democracy.
Wearing a burqa negates the reason why there are security cameras in the first place – as a measure against terrorism.
It is ironic that the main cause of the terrorist threat from within, Muslims, are the ones to be allowed to circumvent those very security measures.
Look, it's obvious: let them wear the burqa but if they do, make it compulsory to wear a blue and red striped pointed hat on top. Job done!
No Sarkozy rage from the Beeb – yet, but there was a nice little piece in 'From Our Own Correspondent' Here, the Beeboid resident in Paris hit the streets and informs us that she couldn't find a French muslim who wears a burqa, or who knew someone who weras a burqa, or who even knew where to but a burqa. Interwoven into all this is a story about a crocodile supposedly spotted (but didn't really exist) in a pond in Vosges. The suggestion at the end is that the burqa issue, like the crocodile, is a red herring. Listen to it here http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/8120399.stm if you wish