OK folks, just to let you know that yours truly will be appearing on Sunday Morning Live (BBC network 10am). I will be debating with George Galloway amongst others on the subjects of Capital Punishment and “Palestine.” I would welcome any comments or suggestions that you may have.
My views are as follows;
I support the Death Penalty and believe it is the appropriate punishment for those such as child-killers and terrorists. I believe the recent execution of Troy Davis in the States was overdue. I care more about the victims than the killers. A large number of ordinary British people share my view and I believe that our political representatives have failed in their duty to represent that view.
As far as a state for Palestine is concerned, you may as well wish for a State for Narnia. A/They already have a State called Jordan B/ After we have seen what they when they got Gaza, who in their right mind what offer them MORE Israeli territory? C/Theatrics at the UN, that bastion of institutionalised Israel-bashing, are a poor substitute for seeking peace. The truth is that the Palestinians are frauds who cloak their intent to erase Israel in contrived language aimed at getting liberal sentiment on side.
DV, every time the Israelis have been gulled into making concessions for peace the Palestianians have taken it as a sign of weakness that meant terrorism will work.
The Palestinians have proven time after time they dont want peace with Israel, they want to destroy it.
Oh, and if Galloway wants to point out Hamas have been elected in Gaza and Fatah in the West Bank, you may wish to point out that as with the election of Hitler, no further elections have taken place.
All the best on Sunday DV. Personally, my unsolicited advice would be dont bring up BBC bias unless a reason is served up to you on a plate (that said, the appalling BBC bias over the reporting of the execution of Troy Davis would not exactly be irrelevant to how the debate is distorted by the national broadcaster).
DV, you will never win with the position that you care more about the victims than the killers. Your argument will always be dimssed by the cries about innocent men being executed due to a faulty/racist/false witness justice system. The only way to get past that is to set a minimum body count for the death penalty, as no one has ever been wrongly convicted for mass murder. Then you can bring up the notion that allowing mass murderers to live and the inevitable celebrity and media hacks revisting the story every so often causes continuous and permanent harm to the families of the victims. They’ll have no answer for that.
Arguing that Troy Davis should have been executed is a lost cause. The best you can do is ask why the BBC is constantly harping on the death penalty in the US when China and any number of Muslim countries execute thousands every year based on dubious charges. Ask the BBC why they spend time championing a murderer but don’t cause such a fuss every time Iran kills homosexuals. Why don’t they ever have on a Muslim to advocate killing homosexuals the way they bring you in to advocate for the death penalty for murder? Or someone from China to advocate the death penalty for all the reasons they do it? Question the twisted BBC priorities. Put them on the back foot.
As for Galloway, make sure you ask him why it’s okay for Palestine to be Judenfrei, and ask why the BBC has censored this fact. If there’s time, also ask why only Jews – of all religions in the world – must not allowed to control their own holy sites, and aren’t even allowed to pray inside the wall of the location of their only real holy site. Ask Galloway why he supports this religious oppression.
Best of luck in what is surely a trap being set for you.
While you are at it why dont you punch that traitorous c8nt in the face! 🙂
Regards
Mailman
As soon as you start making valid points, Galloway will try to bully you by shouting over you. He will always be allowed to get away with this on the BBC.
I don’t know what the best way to counter this is. One way may be to say “Carry on Mr Galloway”. Wait for him to finish his bluster, and then loudly and sarcastically say “Are you finished now?” Follow it up with “Meanwhile, back in the real world the facts of the situation are….”.
Or if Galloway gets too boorish, you could ask Susannah “Is this the George Galloway Show or am I allowed to make my points too?” If she doesn’t exercise her duty you could come back with “Is this the BBC or Press TV? Both seem to have Iran running them at the moment”.
I should add that from what little I’ve seen of Susannah Reid on SML I dont expect she’ll show much bias. Let’s see if I’ve watched enough!
Well, from what little I’ve seen, I fully expect her to show bias.
Agreed David. She will helping “Gorgeous” George and will allow him to bluster as if he was making sense, but she will be hard on anyone who is putting the reasonable and fair point of view.
Oh, and good luck. We’re all rooting for you.
On ‘Palestine’:
“Please stop this ‘Problem’ and ‘Solution’ nonsense”
(by Hugh Fitzgerald)
http://www.newenglishreview.org/blog_display.cfm/blog_id/38031
Id like to know one simple question about one of your fellow debating “chums”, especially when the leftist Utopia of Palestine is raised….Is George Galloway, a militant leftist atheist or a revert to Allah?….Cue video as a prelude to my curiosity…….
http://www.youtube.com/user/GeorgeGallowsWay#p/u/5/RKHn0mjQTzY
Ask those who are against the death penalty how they feel that thirty-three innocent people are now dead, murdered by thirty-one convicted murderers in the last decade who, went on to kill again after being released early from gaol. Those given mandatory life sentences serve on average just sixteen years, whilst those given
discretionary life servejust nine years on average. Ask these twonks why they will campaign against the death penalty but don’t campaign for life sentences that really mean these murderers will be put away for life.
Is that a UK stat? If so, VERY insightful.
Yes, Home Office figures. Here’s a link to a Telegraph story in 2010. I’m including Andrew Dawson who murdered two neighbours in Derby recently having been released from prison on licence after serving time for murdering a ninety-one year old man.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/7147662/Killers-freed-to-kill-again.html
Good luck with the programme.
Peter
Peter
I should have added that not only has the Government failed to protect its citizens from these murderers, it’s given these killers the opportunity to murder even more innocent citizens. Is there a law which prevents the relatives of the innocent victims sueing the Government for failing to protect their murdered loved ones? Perhaps if the Ministers were sued they would ensure “life means life” sentences.
Sorry to harp on but I feel very strongly that capital punishment be re-introduced.
Peter
Totally agree. We hear the endless bleating of “what if” we execute ONE innocent man. But what about these dozens of murdered innocents by released from captivity killers doing what they do best! I am sure they may be a poll on this on Sunday, hope people will phone in and support my call for the death penalty to be brought back.
I think there is something else going on which I have never seen discussed before. I think that people are shocked either consciously or unconsciously by the juxtaposition in the news of people who have killed and receive shortish jail sentences and the deaths of those brave, disciplined young men who fight in Afghanistan or Iraq. If we were not fighting a war then the juxtaposition would not be there. But now that it is I think it makes people think about the value of human life. They see that the life of this soldier is worth 10 times the life of some murderer yet the murderer lives and the soldier dies. This is not right. It shows that life is something valuable and to take a life you should forfeit your own.
One other point is that DNA evidence is pretty solid. There may need to be a higher standard of evidence in murder cases that end up with a death penalty.
David, As I understand it, the EU Lisbon Treaty allows for the death penalty under certain circumstances ( I think when the EU itself is threatened). So, it can’t be that the death penalty, per se is wrong, but just that ordinary citizens of a country cannot be allowed to have it as a punishment for wrongdoers.
@ DV Yesterday, 23:30:25
Absolutely. The arguments about executing innocent people by mistake and murderers being freed to kill again cancel eachother out: the argument is ‘What punishment does justice for the crime of murder?’ For me, its very simple, as I’ve mentioned elsewhere; those who violate the sanctity of life forfeit the right to life. If society really values human life, it will stop killing pre-born babies for the sake of sexual freedom, and start hanging murderers instead for the sake of justice.
If life does mean life then warders and fellow inmates are at risk from them. If they have no prospect of release then they dont have too much incentive not to kill again in prison.
Those who violate the sanctity of life forfeit the right to life.
A society prepared to sacrifice the life of pre-born babies on the altar of sexual freedom but permit murderers to live is morally bankrupt.
Tell Mr Galloway, that the REAL occupation is the occupation of Palestinians’ minds with hate – this occupation has been going on for decades.
This is the occupation whereby two year old children are indoctrinated to hate Jews and that it’s a good thing to kill them.
This is the true occupation – none else.
It’s an absolute crime and moral perversion to be rearing a society that is taught and imbibed to HATE. No wonder they have so many willing to blow themselves up for Allah by the time they’re a teenager. Palestinian ‘society’ honours these murderers by naming streets after them, putting up posters of them, economically paying off those families who give their son and/or daughter to the jihad
….these are crimes of the worst sort and yet most of the world refuses to recognise this and remain asleep. May the TRUTH win. & on fatah as opposed to hamas?…hmmm”Terroristians” is an appropriate term, fitting Hamas like a glove.
The US, EU and UK all regard Hamas as terrorists. but what about Fatah?
well let’s see:
Mahmoud Abbas wrote a dissertation denying the Holocaust, organised the finances of the Munich Olympics terrorists who killed 11 Israeli athletes and was Yasser Arafat’s right hand man.
I guess one could claim he is reformed, except that he regularly honours Palestinian terrorists as “martyrs,” and names squares and sports stadiums after them, proving his enthusiastic support for the slaughter of Israeli men, women and children.
But what about the “peace” process? ..& unity between, hamas /fatah…just a tactic to weaken Israel and make the country more susceptible to future attacks?
You don t need me to tell you about the fairy story of “palestinian” land
& illegality you know all that,
If Galloway uses the normal muslim trick, of over talking/raising his voice/
tell him straight george let ME speak WHAT ARE YOU AFRAID OF the truth getting out
give him hell dude
The Troy Davis defence is one of moral equivocation. It is one thing to claim innocence and say you didn’t do it, and defer execution due to uncertainty over proof. Entirely different if there is no shade of doubt as to proof – Norwegian mass murderer Anders Breivig, for example.The defence issue there must be insanity. Not heard any claim Troy Davis is insane.
Troy Davis decided it was OK to kill people. What is his problem with that being applied to himself? Follow the money. This is not about justice, this is all about lawyers posturing while filing claims for fees.
Ask them how many executed criminals have gone on to re-offend?
I am in favour of multiple death sentences. We have the technology to kill and then rescusitate people, So we should kill, rescusitate and keep on killing and rescusitating until they are either really really sorry, or until they refuse to be rescusitated again.
Send Galloway away to the Gallows.
If Galloway harps on about the “illegal” blockade, ask him how that can be be when one of the contributors to the much quoted San Remo manual served on the Turkel commission and ruled it legal. Ask him also, what the plan for the Mavi Marmara was as it it was too big to dock in Gaza Port.
If he harps on about 1967 borders, ask him why exactly those borders came about, reminding him they were the reuslt of an Arab attempt to drive Israel and the jews into the sea.
Sunday Morning Live? Now, there’s a programme that adores the ‘religion of peace’ and its advocates! So much so, that it’s a wonder that they don’t shift it to Friday out of dhimmi deference.
Strangely, I don’t seem to have seen any reference by the BBC to the following sectarian violence in Bradford earlier this week, in which a Muslim gang threw bricks at school buses: http://durotrigan.blogspot.com/2011/09/muslim-catholic-conflict-hits-st-bedes.html
Galloway is a Marxist Stalinist. Prior to the awakening of his interest in the Middle East his best friends, and most of his overseas jaunts, were in Eastern Europe. He simply hates the West and any enemy of the Western way of life is naturally a friend of his.
It is next to impossible to get anywhere when debating with the anti capital punishment crowd. They simply assume that all convictions are ‘unsafe’. Ergo no one is ever proven guilty, ergo every conviction is a miscarriage of justice.
Thanks for posting this, we’ll see (a) how much of your message you get to deliver (b) how much they attack you (c) how much they try and twist your message. Good luck DV.
I just can’t agree with the death penalty. It’s not that I don’t think scum deserves to die, it’s that the Police are so corrupt these days they will fit people up to get the press or politicians off their back. Think about Chris Jeffries down in Bristol or the young nurse who has recently been released. These days the Police are far less concerned with the facts than they are of pleasing the people who bung them money or favours. Our Police are a joke, 40 years of lefty liberalism has turned then from the Jack Reagan “We’re the Sweeney we’ve not had any dinner and you’re nicked” real plods to politically driven lefty scum.
Live should mean life though, no parole no lefty twats campaigning for their freedom and prisons for lifers should be hell holes. But I just don’t like the idea of giving the state, especially if the Government is run by the Labour party the right to execute me or anyone else.
Would anyone really trust Ed Testicles or Gordon Brown with the right to execute people they don’t like?
Martin, a minimum body count will eliminate that argument.
But the law worked in both their cases. Neither was tried, let alone found guilty beyond reasonable doubt. and neither would have been subject to the proposed death penalty, due to some element of doubt, and the victims were not children or police. The media wrongly (and I believe unlawfully) hyped these cases pre charge.
And thankfully, the politicians do not try people in these cases, judges do with a defence and prosecution team in front of a Jury.
You claim that you do not trust state to execute, but you do trust them to permanently remove the liberty of a person facing the exact same judicial process…. That does not make sense.
Restore the death penalty and increase the standard of proof required for that ultimate penalty to “guilty beyond ALL doubt”. Cases such as Breivik’s in Norway would easily satisfy all the requirements of the death penalty. He murdered many children and there is NO doubt whatsoever at all about his guilt. He should be executed. If there was another Dunblane, but where the killer was caught by the police, then that sort of case should be subject to the death penalty.
You claim that you do not trust state to execute, but you do trust them to permanently remove the liberty of a person facing the exact same judicial process…. That does not make sense.
At least they’ll still be alive long enough for someone to potentially prove their innocence. That’s the theory, anyway.
One of the posters on my board made this comment which I want to share with you David, as well as to wish you the best of success on Sunday – and ever 🙂
Especially liked his ‘David and Gallowiath’ analogy – I hope history repeats itself – how fitting.
Quote = The Highland Rebel
I see on the main board page that David Vance will be on telly on Sunday facing that cretin George Indefatiguable Galloway.
I’m having difficulty logging on to send a message but if you’re reading this, Dave, then the best of luck.
Galloway is a smooth talker, much like his doppelganger Adolph Hitler, but I’m sure Dave will do us proud.
It might be a David and Gallowiath contest especially if the host lives up to b-bbc standards but one thing Galloway cannot stomach is being told the truth especially when the facts are laid in front of him and not even his wailing and flailing of arms can disguise the fact that he’s been made a fool of again.
Good luck Dave.
Rattle a tin in front of Galoway, with a picture of Kurdish gas victims sellotaped on the front. He made enough out of Saddam, didn’t he?
Here’s George ‘apologist for Islamic extremism’ getting well and truly owned on his own show on Press TV(where else). Notice the constant tactic of deflection, it’s his only resort because his views are so difficult to justify without appearing to excuse the inexcusable. When he can no longer take the heat, after much shouting over his opponent whilst accusing the guest of doing the same, he calls the interview to a close. What out for the deflection when you debate with him!!!
Here he is getting owned by Christopher Hitchens, in the company of Katty Kay on Bill Maher’s Realtime.
…and here – more preaching to the Islamic choir, this time claiming that Hezbollah has never been a terrorist organisation, among other outrageously preposterous appeasments :
Know your enemy – then cane the bastard!
David, there are so many excellent suggestions on this thread that I’m having difficulty thinking of anything to add. But you could neatly link the death penalty and the Palestine issue in this fashion:
“If we were talking about imposing the death penalty in kangaroo courts as they do in the Palestinian territories on those accused of spying for Israel or selling land to Jews, then I’d be against it. But we are talking about reintroducing it in a country where the best traditions of justice and fair trials prevail.”
A word of caution re claiming the Palestinians already have Jordan as their state. It’s difficult to back that one up and way too involved. Rather deal with Israel’s painful compromise in withdrawing fully from Gaza with the aim of peace, only to met with increased terror. If they come back at you with the, “Big deal, Israel is still blockading Gaza,” argument, point out that the Palestinian resumed rocket fire from Gaza on undisputed Israeli territory when the dust from the withdrawal had hardly settled.
What guarantee does Israel have that a future Palestinian state (which will be free of Jews) will not turn on Israel?
Good luck!
TT excellent post, stick to the hard facts, watch “georgeous” squirm
his is unashamed, will play the old “bring a tear to a glass eye” routine.
talking over you /raising his voice etc.
hard facts ok….real victims, the arabs under hamas,(fatah little better)
the H.Charter & Fatahs, Israellis under constant threat, the minds of the arab children,(as i mentioned before), Abbas s past.
– refusal to accept peace/statehood – always “loading” pre-conditions,
because of the factual weakness of the argument, & about land/occupation well you know all that.
I think, get your “equal” time in discourse, george is an old hand, at deflection/time filling, just the facts again & again.
hard facts, nearly all of “Pally” arguments have a “bring a tear to a glass eye” base, driven by a delusion of victim mentality.
Arab states around Israel, & as proven by history, are larger & the aggressor.
No matter their insane genocidal tendancy “pally”arabs are the perfect foil, ie smaller than Israel – & thus most importantly, played to the hilt “the victim” – no wonder no one else will have them, they serve the pefect islamic purpose, don t they
i ve said enough, good luck……..as said on dragnet, “just the facts ma am!” ;-D
If you get the opportunity, could you ask Galloway why the modern left seem to love using dead Jews for their own propaganda purposes, but despise living Jews.
He must be worried that the death penalty will be re-introduced for treason. He’d be first in the queue, followed by Livingstone, then we could get to work on former Labour cabinet members, followed by Anjem Choudary, Abu Izzadeen, Martin Smith etc.
Just ask the indefatigable George if he is pro- or anti-Assad this week. Or does he only support baby Assad when there is a full moon?
lol – if there is a full moon I would not wish to be near Narnia
A childish suggestion, I know, but you could also remind Mr Galloway of his time as a cat on Big Brother. The sight of him in that leotard, sipping milk from a bowl made me feel physically sick.
The BBC is just one big overgrown Guardian reader who has crept to the top of his branch of Social Services, but has never actually done any job that the Guardian did not advertise.
He bedblocks some pompous pointless “Cabinet Directorate” post and spends all his time in strategy meeting, but has never left school(public ,natch), uni( Oxbridge low grade) or public sector employment.
He pontificates on childrens rights, but let his own adopted kids for a younger woman…but, like a Blunkett or a Mandelson, a Prescott or whoever…he only apes his masters. Not a scrap of independence, morality or integrity…which is why he is as exalted in his own bubble as he is!
So when you sit on his lap tomorrow David…remember that his reflex is ALWAYS for the rebel, the underdog, the victim(not the real victims, but the self-referring types like travellers, Muslims etc). It is called “cheap grace”…their wristbands for the Palestinians and the travellers, but no offer of the BBC car park or any effort to square Islam with gays and womens rights.
Spineless, emoting and expedient with principles to burn and bend if a scary gypsy or Muslim comes by…Galloway will be the agitprop victim( where DOES he get his money from I wonder ,boys and girls?…or does Big Brother pay him a salary to promote Whiskas?)
This is a home banker for Galloway Dave…but if you stick a few personal barbs into Gorgeous George and get that voice of his up a notch, then you`ll have won. The whole country will be looking for his “fatiguability” and hope you skewer this useless “Soddam” puppet.
George Galloway and the Death Penalty. A match made in heaven, surely?
http://lunchtimeloather.blogspot.com/
A question I would love someone to ask someone like Galloway is “Do you know that you’re always lying, are you just irredeemably stupid?”
It might be useful to point out to the GG that all Commie countries used the death sentence with gay abandon. As do Israel’s enemies. including hamas’s throwing its rivals of rooftops.
The one country in the ME that doesn’t use the death sentence: Israel.
And if he replies they use it against Palestinians, you calmly respond that those are war casulaties in a war deeply desired by Hamas and the other terrorists. It is they who are killing their people.
I don’t hold with the death penalty. I don’t see how it advances us in the scheme of things.
Obviously the statistics concerning the numbers of re-offending ‘early release murderers’ is an argument against early-release rather than against the death penalty.
I find the concept of death row abhorrent, but ‘life’ should mean ‘life’, for the protection of the public, if nothing else. If there is such a thing as redemption, let it take place behind bars.
Gorgeous George does have a cunning habit of coming over all moderate on Question Time. If he does that on Sunday it could wrong-foot his opponents. Whether he does that or not, it might be better to just look him in the eye and go ‘Miaoow.’
Alternatively, quote anything from Netanyahu’s UN speech.
My thought is that you ask GG if Israel has the right to exist and then why Hamas in its charter denies Israel that right…. but I have a horrible feeling that he would just respond with a rant that means you just don’t get an answer.
hey deb
fatahs hymnsheet is no better, same shade of hate just worded more succinct.
better to ask GG “if MOH FLEW up to heaven from the al aqsa” a pious muslim belief, he s stated it enough times to his “brothers”… 😀
he ll…(of course) try & deflect……to which, you could jibe,
i wanted a straight answer george, but hey PIGS MIGHT FLY! 😀
oh & thanks to dazed & confused,
here he is repeating it again & again 😀
http://www.youtube.com/user/GeorgeGallowsWay#p/u/5/RKHn0mjQTzY
Palestine does not have the right to exist because it was not-is not-and now never will be a country.
In the Bible they are the Philistines…the Romans called them the Palestinians when they got to name that province of the Bible lands.
Israel has every right to exist, and the very fact that the Jews were promised their little bit of the Middle East back around WW1 ending was the guiding principle behing establishing it as a country.
That the Jews nearly got wiped out as a people because they had been denied their rightful inheritance throughout the Third Reich/Grand Mufti era now means that Israel is secure. It is going nowhere-and any attempt to browbeat it into a compromise with its mortal enemies( neighbours, EU and assorted lefties) will surely be resisted.
It has been attacked and vilified for years now, and it continues to be a pilot light to the world…that a sliver of land is not too much to ask…and those who want that denied really just want the Jews drowned in the Med…but will do that by degrees and not as crudely as Uncle Adolf.
I defer to Sue and the other experts who come to this blog…but that is MY version of events. The more I watch the Beeb…the more I dig deep for Israel…and to watch the BBC having to choose between Obama and the Israeli cause was delicious.
Good practice for the tumbleweed connections they will have to make one day between all their pet shibboleths and -phobias etc…and the wonders of Islam!
God Bless Israel…and F*** the BBC and their chums that hate both of them!
Galloway is deeply in love with chief Gaza terrorist Ismael Haniya. In any debate on Gaza he will no doubt have all his justifications and arguments ready. But, as I indicated, they are easily demolished by the simple fact of Hamas’ immediate resumption of rocket fire on undisputed Israel after the complete withdrawal from Gaza and the steady increase in these attacks until by the time of Operation Cast Lead, close to a hundred rockets were being fired into Israel daily, some of them reaching Beer Sheva and Ashkelon, a considerable distance from Gaza.
There is no doubt that Hamas and company saw that disengagement from Gaza as weakness and not an opening for peace negotiations.