‘One lesson well understood in both Stalin’s Russia and Nazi Germany was that propaganda is most effective when it is backed by terror.’
In Britain today there are over two million National Socialists living mainly in large enclaves separate from the rest of British society.
Their lives are guided by the tenets taken from a book that orders them not to make friends with anyone who is not a National Socialist, in fact it instructs them to either kill non-followers or force to submit to slavery those who do not convert to their ideology…the book states that it is their duty to spread the ideology and one day to enforce it upon all.
The book praises the ‘family’ and women but ideally would prefer women to be kept at home as housewives…respected but different from men in authority and ability to run their own lives.
The book imposes severe and draconian punishments upon those who commit the ‘crime’ of adultery amongst others.
At times impatient ‘hotheads’ will strike out at the non National Socialist community and government using extreme violence in order to raise awareness and terrorise the Establishment into appeasing them…the Establishment ‘recognises’ their grievances and hands out money and positions of influence in order to ‘assure’ the minority that ‘they’ are part of the national concern.
The National Socialists use this influence and the undertow of threat to continue to press for even more concessions towards their ideology and thus successfully subvert the established community by forcing them to slowly adopt, bit by bit, their National Socialist values…..such as dietary requirements, clothing and the compulsory learning of their ideology in schools…and all supported by a public service broadcaster which is worried that to be critical of the ideology would only antagonise the National Socialists and lead to anger, fear and violence from that community and possibly between communities.
Therefore in order to ‘keep the peace’ nothing will be said about an ideology that is at heart violent, racist and oppressive….nor the fact that it is spreading at an alarming rate.
The public broadcaster cannot ask the question ‘What will be the consequences to this country if the National Socialist community is allowed to grow and force its ideology upon an ever greater swathe of the country?’
It cannot ask the question because the answer would be terrifying for all who value democracy, liberty, and peace.
Violence can only be concealed by a lie, and the lie can only be maintained by violence.
Would the BBC throw Mein Kampf …
……”the new Koran of faith and war: turgid, verbose, shapeless, but pregnant with its message.”
in the Room 101 bin?
BBC refuses to screen play about Islamic threat to freedom of speech
Mark Thompson, the BBC’s director-general, says it will not screen the controversial ‘Can We Talk About This?’.
‘In the past, Thompson has conceded that there is “a growing nervousness about discussion about Islam”. He claimed that because Muslims were a religious minority in Britain, and also often from ethnic minorities, their faith should be given different coverage to that of more established groups.’
Keep these excellent articles coming Alan mate, they’re top class and get really to the heart of the matter of Left-wing undermining of traditional society and values. The respectable and peaceful centre-Right intellectual movement begins here, right now! Onwards and upwards!
You can count on my pitchfork Merlin!
Don’t forget, you’ll be needing a ‘torch’ covered in pitch as well. I’ll bring my spare. Next stop, the woodsman’s cottage – I hear he subscribes to The Guardian…BURN ‘IM!
switch on to see if the media is all “wacist” on al beeb 1 – SML over wait for it 😀 reporting muslims, (i know … what race?) … in a bad light ROFL … hilariously as 7 more are arrested for bombs/terrorism? …
you literally couldn t make it up
(shakes head!)
will the “unicorn” of islamo-FAUX-bia
ever … start i mean end 😀
laugh! – i thought i d never start
Centre right? Don’t make me laugh. This entire thread is the sort of tripe promulgated by Jean-Marie Le Pen and his bunch of charmers. If it’s what you believe in- don’t delude yourself that you’re anywhere near the centre right. Nick Griffin agrees with every word.
Not really. It’s the sort of thread that hopefully puts “useful idiots” a bit nearer to some knowledge. As noted below nothing that Alan has written is out of order or even out of the ordinary. Induced/voluntary/unwitting inability to realise this does you no credit whatsoever.
Redwhiteandblue, no one is forcing you to read its contents. This is a perfectly sensibly discussion but Left-wingers such as yourself are so intolerant and in denial that you despise any viewpoint different from yours.
Calling me a leftwinger neatly makes my point. I’m a One Nation Tory amused and horrified in equal measure by the attempts of some posters to dress up Nationalist rhetoric as centre-right reasonableness.
Redwhiteandblue, I think you might have misunderstood the nature of Alan’s post mate. No one is trying to ‘dress up’ National Socialism or defend it but rather merely make a parallel between it and the fundamentalist segment of Islam. That’s all. You need to perhaps brush up on your reading between the lines and comprehension skills!
The misunderstanding is entirely yours. Reread what I said; it was hardly complicated.
Well, alas… if you are too vain to accept responsibility for your sweeping and unfounded generalizations and critical miscalculations then there’s little point in trying to hold a grown up discussion with you; perhaps the Guardian Comments Page might be more appropriate for I hear they indulge in obstinacy, intolerance and excessive pride in one’s opinions once in awhile.
So to summarise: in your first comment you confuse ‘Nationalist’ with ‘National Socialist’, thus missing my point entirely. Then in your second you resort to cheap insult, suggesting the Guardian a more suitable forum for views I have already indicated are One Nation Tory. Is there anything else you’d like to get wrong?
A mere typo my liberal conservative friend. Anyway, One Nation Toryism? Isn’t that a failed, rust-bucket and paternalistic Tory movement from the seventies which was obliterated after Macmillan’s and Heath’s premierships? You have a bit of a cheek coming on here and pontificating about (non-existent) extremist right-wing views when your bloody useless shower of politicians are destroying this nation before our very eyes. I for one am not a BNP supporter and find the Nazis vile as do most on this site, but AT LEAST the EDL and Nick Griffin care about the British working classes whereas your liberal conservatism is purely an exercise in PR, greed and self-interest!
In fact you’re both wrong. National Socialism, Socialist Nationalism, the Communist Nationalist Party, Socialism ad infinitum might all purport to be ideologically different but in practice they are all tyrannical forms of social oppression; one might use the social workers model for social control the other the idea of the nation-state. In reality, social equality and economic reality has never been proven via mass social engineering. The Nazi’s hijacked terminology for their evil and odious ends; they were evil, pure and simple. It’s not possible to assign any political model to their horrific work. But again, Stalin and the communists killed a higher proportion of innocents than the Nazi’s ever did – one never hears so much criticism of their atrocities… perhaps because the Left cannot bring themselves to accept that fascism can exist on both sides of the political spectrum??
The bbc has already been contaminated with islam, so in my book it’s already on the side of our enemies.
Behind every suited, pseudo moderate
who pushes the never ending drone, of pseudo victimhood, pseudo “rights”, the “offence” industry etc.
Are several braindead/brainwashed adherrents just looking for a new way to murder for their … “absolute ruler”???.
If its islam it is not moderate … period
individual muslim … “maybe” … with the caveat of past experiences with so called “maybe s”, who take the advice, of the cult leaders, and get back to their book, with disastrous consequences.
what an abhorrent fascist ideology it is
example of “moderate” ideology of peace 😀
Arthur “Two Sheds” Jackson it isn’t !
But amusing non the less.
Are you seriously equating Islam with Nazism?
Yes. Islam is a close fit with Fascism.
Ask Albert Speer, ‘Inside the Third Reich’ in which he states:
“”Hitler had been much impressed by a scrap of history he had learned from a delegation of distinguished Arabs. When the Mohammedans attempted to penetrate beyond France into Central Europe during the eighth century, his visitors had told him, they had been driven back at the Battle of Tours. Had the Arabs won this battle, the world would be Mohammedan today. For theirs was a religion that believed in spreading the faith by the sword and subjugating all nations to that faith. The Germanic peoples would have become heirs to that religion. Such a creed was perfectly suited to the Germanic temperament. Hitler said that the conquering Arabs, because of racial inferiority, would in the long run have been unable to contend with the hasher climate and conditions of the country. They could not have kept down the more vigorous natives, so that ultimately not Arabs but Islamized Germans could have stood at the head of this Mohammedan Empire. Hitler usually concluded this historical speculation by remarking: “You see, it’s been our misfortune to have the wrong religion. Why didn’t we have the religion of the Japanese, who regard sacrifice for the Fatherland as the highest good? The Mohammedan religion too would have been much more compatible to us than Christianity.”
So Hitler admired Shinto and Islam. That isn’t the same as saying Islam admired Hitler. Nor indeed it is the same as saying, as you seem to be suggesting, that Islam and Nazism are on a par. I just want to be quite clear about what it is you are suggesting.
I will leave you to make the necessary comparison with Islam……
Jihad…Struggle
Mein Kampf….My Struggle
Hitler described his ideas as a ‘world view’, almost a religious set of attitudes that demanded commitment and faith rather than invite reasoned analysis and debate.
Ideas that were intended to stimulate political activism…it was more a political religion than an ideology. It emphasised action not ideas, the soul not intellect and was a backlash against the ideas of the Enlightenment.
Fascism embodies a sense of messianic or fanatical mission….an intense and militant sense of identity.
All fascist movements highlight the moral bankruptcy and cultural decadence of modern society.
The Fascist ‘leader principle’, the principle that all authority emanates from the leader personally is the guiding principle of the fascist state.
The role of the leader is to awaken the people to their destiny, to transform an inert mass into a powerful and irresistible force.
The fascists aimed to create a revolution of the psyche, a ‘revolution of the spirit’, aimed at creating a new man…a hero motivated by duty, honour and self sacrifice….prepared to dissolve his personality in that of the social whole.
Fascism places the community above the individual.
The national community, as the Nazis called it, the Volksgemeinschaft, was viewed as an indivisible whole, all rivalries and conflicts being subordinated to a higher, collective purpose….a reflection of its moral and cultural unity…’Strength through Unity’.
‘Believe, Obey, Fight.’
nicked emus, are you being deliberately ignorant?, is it wilful?
one hopes you are being ironic.
despite the overwhelming deluge of
evidence to the contrary?
i wouldn t like to pass you over to
the “useful idiot” slot …….. well?
“In Britain today there are over two million National Socialists living mainly in large enclaves separate from the rest of British society.”
Clearly there are not 2m National Socialists living in this country. I am trying to establish if Alan is saying the 2m Muslims living in this country are Nazis. That is a very serious allegation and I want to be quite clear what exactly he is saying.
This is quite specific and not related to general feelings towards Islam. He is making a very clear parallel and I just want to be quite clear what it is.
Jim Dandy aka whitman aka nicked emus yet again arrogating to himself the right to be Mr Moral Adjudicator.
There are muslims “maybe” moderate? maybe not, the issue is … if they follow the ideology piously definitely not.
Also, really important factor
a larger muslim community =
a larger aggressive association agenda, (driven by said fascist ideology), this has been replicated over and over again, maybe you re ignorant of that fact too.
oh and …
“not related to general feelings towards Islam. ”
there are no, “general feelings” about it, maybe you re confused?, there are facts, and the reality, and the implications,(as proven by evidence)of that reality …
are you ignorant of that too?, i do really wonder emus, as your comment seems somewhat excusery.
Fairly obvious that Muslims are not Nazis.
The parallel is between the Islamic ideology with Fascism.
The Koran is clearly not a book that promotes peaceful co-existence…it gives divine sanction to conquest, colonisation, killling non-Muslims and extremely harsh punishments.
The Koran is taught and used by evey Muslim….and is taught to children throughout the country.
It must be questionable that a book with so many provocative statements in it should be taught to young children. They will be unlikely to be able to separate out ‘good’ from ‘bad’ …assuming they were guided to so discriminate by their teachers.
Just how much of the teachings of the Koran are deeply instilled in young minds distorting their views of non-Muslims and how they interact with the democratic, secular/Christian society around them.
It is possibly one of the most important questions that needs an answer…but first you have to ask the question…and the BBC utterly fail to do so….why?
Mark Thompson admits it is fear of violence that prevents such examination…..’In a wide-ranging interview about faith and broadcasting, Mr Thompson disclosed that producers were faced with the possibilities of “violent threats” instead of normal complaints if they broadcast certain types of satire….. “Without question, ‘I complain in the strongest possible terms’, is different from, ‘I complain in the strongest possible terms and I am loading my AK47 as I write’,” he said. “This definitely raises the stakes.”
You’re selling your argument short. The Koran is only 15% of the total volume of Islamic doctrine. Only 15% of it is about Allah and what he says. The rest is about what a man, Mohammed, said and did. Islam is more about Mohammed than Allah. This remainder, the Hadith and Sira, are much worse in their anti non-Muslim exhortations. Muslims and their apologists always talk about the Koran, because they don’t want non-Muslims reading the rest of Islamic doctrine, which is even more despicable. It’s a damage limitation exercise. Anyone reading these is left in no doubt about Islam’s credentials…as if the Koran isn’t bad enough.
Zemplar your comment above is simply brilliant! And so true. The evidence is incontrovertible… only those with blind faith cannot see.
If it’s “[f]airly obvious that Muslims are not Nazis”, Alan, why make a statement such as this?
“In Britain today there are over two million National Socialists living mainly in large enclaves separate from the rest of British society.”
I agree, literalist (or political) Islam schools of thought share many of the attributes of totalitarian ideologies and it is undeniable that there are many in the Islamic world who would merrily wipe out the Jewish tribe, inter alia. But to ascribe such views onto two million British citizens – even on a theoretical level – smacks of paranoia and is pretty offensive.
I would seriously consider revising that second paragraph.
And to put this debate into the context of BBC bias, yes, the BBC is wary of offending Muslim sensibilities because, as Mark Thompson rather quaintly suggested, Islamic extremists do have a penchant for AK47s.
“that isn’t the same thing as saying Islam admired Hitler.”
This is a really complex one, actually. There was no standard ‘Islamic’ response to Hitler-opinion varied. Some Arabs were pro-British, others pro-Nazi. Of course a lot of this was down to political opportunism and wanting to be on the side that happened to be winning at the time. However, Hitler was not without his admirers in the Arab world. Rashid Ali el Gailani, for example, who was a known Nazi sympathiser who toppled a pro-British regime in Iraq and of course there was the notorious Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, see below
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/muftihit.html
Anwar Sadat was a Nazi spy but I doubt he was an actual Nazi – more of a proponant of ‘your enemy’s enemy is your friend’.
Much like the BBC today.
He had an odd taste in ties:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-LN43YuDk2Ig/TkzWdnkIi2I/AAAAAAAAFkc/ifUr5nez9YA/s1600/sadat-dayan-1.jpg
So, in an islamic country nick, will you become a convert? a dhimmi? or get your throat cut? whats your chosen route? you wont have any other choice my friend!
If you don’t know what a dhimmi is go read some books.
maybe scotty or dez will provide us with a definition of a dhimmi?
answers guys?
C’mon guys, where are ya? dhimmi? definition?
no replies? dez?
c’mon lets hear one from you !
well there you have it….just like inbbc on dhimmitude:
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
They/he/she would be acknowledging the historical subjugation of Jews in Muslim countries if they responded to your request in the way you are obviously seeking. So, no answer is not a surprise.
Nazism –
Eradication of the Jewish people
Eradication of Christianity
World domination through violence and terror.
Islam –
Eradication of the Jewish people
Eradication of Christianity
World domination through violence and terror.
Communism:
Eradication of the Jewish people
Eradication of Christianity
World domination through violence and terror.
As a commentator, I think it was on Guido, once asked:
“What’s the difference between a master race and a master religion?”
To which someone replied:
“They had smarter uniforms and their women were hotter.”
Seem to remember that came from Mel Brooks’ ‘The Producers’.
Nicked Emus wrote:
“Are you seriously equating Islam with Nazism?”
What part of not mixing with non-muslims, killing apostates,Gays and subjugating women don’t you understand.
Wherever you find Islam, you will find intolerance,Hatred and oppression.
Just because you refuse to see Islam for it is, doesn’t give you the right to berate those who do.
Are you seriously unaware of Islam’s historic ties with Nazism and their admiration for Hitler?
Can you tell me in which language and/or in which countries more copies of Mein Kampf are sold?
Go on, google it then come back and voice your surprise!
Hint, here’s a start for you:
http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Images:Islamic_Nazism
Sorry, where have you been for the last twenty years? Haven’t you heard about Muslim extremists flying jets through towers, calling for the destruction of Israel and the Jewish race, blowing up trains, shooting young children, chucking bombs into packed churches, teaching that Jews and infidels are ‘dirty pigs’ in their strict Madrasa schools, holding rallies with placards saying: ‘Death to the infidels’ and ‘Behead those who don’t submit’, the burning of poppies, stoning women to death for refusing to wear the burka, destroying religious buildings and icons because they are not Islamic, calling for gays to burn in hell, calling for the world to submit to Islam or face eternity in hell… The are many facets to Fascism pal; they don’t have to walk round a specific type of uniform. Trust me, if the extremist element of Islam gets a majority in this country you’re going to find out what a sharp side of a kebab knife really feels like!
In a word, yes. The thousand-year Reich, and The Caliphate, out of the same box, suprematism.
What prevents you connecting the dots?
The BBC’s Islamic quotas are doing rather well – in conjunction with its positive discrimination, topic bias and topic avoidance the promotion of the minority is ahead of targets …
I wonder what happened to its “We particularly welcome white working class blokes, because we are currently understaffed in this area” quota?
You could say the same about New Labour !
Welcome to Airstrip Two, direct flights to Islamabad, Mogadishu, Kabul and Teheran, halal inflight cuisine, modest flight attendants.
White British declared Ethnic Minority. Morris dancing banned. George Galloway declared Britains first Imam.
School calendars redesigned to accommodate Ramadam and the Eid. All classrooms rebuilt to face Mecca.
Recent muslim convert David Abu-bin2-Eton Cameron assumes role of Chief Vizier, English Affairs.
Maybe I should start my own crane hire business. I will make alot of money when the caliphate takes over Britain. I could open branches in places like Islington. Karma will be a right bitch to all the metro trendy leftys.
The third world war is counting down to it’s unholy Genesis, you can see it’s formation all around the Islamic world at this present juncture…….It will be fought along the lines of:…The religion of peace and it’s cowardly leftist cheerleaders on one side of the fence, and everyone that doesn’t want to envisage a barbaric, totalitarian, stone age future on the other……
The Western politicians that have facilitated this future through a love of oil and a jaw dropping concession to the Marxist dogma of political correctness, should of course see justice for their crimes……Perhaps they will……The Islamic/National Socialist way, if they are indeed victorious………That doesn’t really bear thinking about……..But it’s possible, because of loathsome organisations such as the self righteous BBC.
NE,
you seem to have to have lost the right comment thread …
an oversight surely 😀
so i ll help you 😀
There are muslims “maybe” moderate? maybe not?
The issue is … if they follow the ideology piously definitely not.
Also, really important factor
a larger muslim community =
a larger aggressive association agenda, (driven by said fascist ideology), this has been replicated over and over again, maybe you re ignorant of that fact too.
oh and …
“not related to general feelings towards Islam. ”
there are no, “general feelings” about it, maybe you re confused?, there are facts, and the reality, and the implications, (as proven by evidence) of that reality …
are you ignorant of that too?, i do really wonder emus, as your comment seemed somewhat excusery.
“they give us a picture of how the Muslims really are and how they really think. If we wanted to know what the Muslim is, what his nature is, we must study his writings, for they show him to us”
ooooh! ((yawn) learn more about islam, that old chestnut …. sorry not playing.
you know you d think old mohamhead was a pretty good muslim
in fact the perfect example for conduct 😀
Qur’an:9:5 “Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.”
Qur’an:8:39 “Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah.”
oh dear
Oh stop trying to be too clever by half and get to the point whitman- if, indeed, you have one that is. That quote don’t mean nuffin’ (as they say in East London). We’re talking about the central point of growing international concerns regards the rise in Islamic fascism, an irrefutable phenomena which you wholeheartedly deny. Please, vex us not with your foul and unfounded Left-wing accusations and ply us not with your false reasoning man!
What a truly bizarre post, even by Alan’s standards.
Based on a three month old article that is alteady overreaching by suggesting that, because the BBC has no plans to air a theatre performance, it’s somehow afraid of Islam.
The BBC also has no plans to broadcast Wicked. Is it afraid of witches?
It has no plans to broadcast
Scott: They’ve admitted themselves that they’re afraid of Islamic fundamentalism, F.F.S…….So what is “truly bizarre” about this current post?
Apart from the paragraphs and paragraphs of nonsense, before Alan finally gets around to making a weak point?
And apart from it being based on an old report, which itself would only be of relevance if the BBC had a history of televising theatre performances and had somehow chosen not to put one on out of fear?
The only people showing fear around here are you, Alan, and the rest of Biased BBC commenters who are afraid of anyone who isn’t exactly like them.
scezz,
“making a weak point” 😀 tsk tsk!
i know having a point is alien to you,
i know it must be difficult for you to fit it in through all the “ad-homs”,
but if you can somehow manage it …. yours on islam/nat socialism?
come now, change the habit of a lifetime, before you re never to darken our doorstep, ever again ……………………. again! 😀
Scott, go and start up a debate on the joys of gay sex on an islamist website, and see how they respond to people who are not exactly like them.
Too difficult for him, that one, means he has to confront a hard fact.
Scotty sweety I’m not afraid of you nor any Muslim come to that. So don’t worry your little mop top with that idea.
I work on the basis of ‘come and have a go if you think you’re hard enough.’
A little childish I know but it has never failed me yet, be it against school yard bullies, left wing thugs, muggers or anyone else you thinks they can subject me to their hell.
Don’t for one minute think that fear is a motivation. For some it may be hate but for me (and I suspect others here) it’s a desire to live my life, my way, in MY COUNTRY.
So be a dear and fuck off with your fear bollocks.
Yes fear, as felt by many just before some 7th century babarian muslim savage sawed his head off with a huge knife, oh and managed to capture it all on video so they can transmit the message to others. That’s real fear mate, just fuck off.
What a truly bizarre post, even by Alan’s standards.
Based on a three month old article that is alteady overreaching by suggesting that, because the BBC has no plans to air a theatre performance, it’s somehow afraid of Islam.
The BBC also has no plans to broadcast Wicked. Is it afraid of witches?
Apologies for the odd double post, something odd was going on with the web form on iOS…
It wasn’t that long ago that you announced to your “adoring” Twitter public, that you had finally quit the Biased BBC website……So what happened there then?……..Nobody cared?……….Wasn’t that around about the time you had a crush on an Islamist? His name was Faisal Shahzad if I remember correctly. I wonder what his response would have been if you’d told face to face…..
No I didn’t. I realise that not telling the truth is a prerequisite for Biased BBCers, though, so do carry on.
The then DG Thompson has already gone on record admitting they fear islam mate.
“Based on a three month old article that is alteady overreaching by suggesting that, because the BBC has no plans to air a theatre performance, it’s somehow afraid of Islam.”
But Scott, Mark Thompson has openly acknowledged that the BBC does treat Islam differently from Christianity chiefly because, broadly speaking, Christians have broader shoulders. He has also openly stated that the fear of a violent backlash is a factor*.
At the time, I thought MT’s candidness was refreshing and his admission was a courageous one. After all, as the Theo van Gogh episode showed, the lives of programme-makers are at stake and senior managers at the BBC have a duty of care.
*Forgive me – I don’t have links to the interviews and I am a bit crap at this HTML thing.
The comparison to make is not between ntional socialism and the Muslims in this county but between national socialism and countries that are already Muslim run and countries where Muslims are a significant but not overwhelming part of the population. Nigeria Sudan or Indonesia. Places where life is not getting easier for non Muslims.
We also can consider the result of increased islamification in the Arab ‘spring’ countries. Non Muslim graves desecrated in Lybia Christian minority under threat in Syria and the new Egyptian President.
How often do we hear on the BBC the ‘positive’ view of Islam be it the ‘Book of the Week’, items on ‘Woman’s Hour’ or a piece on ‘From Our Own Correspondent’? Answer to my own question; frequently.
I for one don`t equate Nazis with Muslims-and nor does anybody else round here as far as I can see.
What I do see are clear parallels with Islam and National Socialism…or International Socialism if you like(otherwise tried out by its brand name -Communism).
“Biodegradable” -above-has left you a link Scott and NE-the likes of Martin Gilbert and Alan D are serious figures-and you`ll have to do a lot better than implying that all Nazis are blond Aryans. That`s if you want to have a serious conversation about the BBCs well documented cringing over all things Islamic
Fascists come in different guises-and even by Gramscian taxonomy, IslamoFascism is a real threat to Jews and the rest of us.
You`ll be fools if you can`t or won`t see that-and , even if you won`t: you won`t be allowed to stop the rest of us from saying so.
I welcome real debate-but the constant quibbling/majoring on minors stuff as you ghost in to put a bat up your own nightshirt is a bit tiring..even when it`s so random and sporadic!
“put a bat up your own nightshirt”
Nice one ChrisH. Graphic
I think there is a parallel going on here with Nazism and Muslims, just not the one that Alan is trying to posit. Take the anti-Semitic propaganda produced by the Nazis and replace Jew with Muslim, Torah with Koran and then compare to some of the views expressed here.
So for example Zemplar’s comments about the Koran are an uncanny echo of the adjusted quote I produced which is from Nazi propaganda.
Yes there is a major and very serious problem with Islamic fundamentalism, but that is not to say that all Muslims are fundamentalists. But you all know this anyway.
That crap that the Jews are the new Nazis and the poor Muslims are the new Jews doesn’t wash mate!
See here if you haven’t already then, come back and apologise:
http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Images:Islamic_Nazism
I don’t expect it to wash on this site and with this group of contributors.
As for your link, yes I visited it. There is no dispute that some countries had favourable relations with Nazi Germany, but so did the Vatican. Vichy French forces fought against Britain.
No one is denying a very real and very serious threat from fundamental Islamic terrorists. But to suggest that because some terrorists cite Islam as their justification means all Muslims are suspect is like saying that because the UVF were Protestant northern irish terrorists, all Protestants in the six counties are suspect. It is an argument without merit.
Islam is not “some country” and it’s not a question of “favourable relations”. In the case of Islamists (note I didn’t say Muslims) they and the Nazis share a hatred of Jews, and indeed any non-believer, and a wish to completely “wipe them from the face of the earth”.
I’m not surprised that you’ve moved from your “Muslims are the new Jews” meme to comparisons with Northern Ireland.
Moving the goal posts when you run out of arguments seems to be your forte.
I’m still waiting for you to apologise for comparing Muslims to Jews, but I won’t hold my breath.
Stop changing the goal posts; the tone of of this whole article was to highlight the many (glaringly obvious) similarities between fundamentalist Islam and forms of fascism, be they Nazism or Stalinist communism. You seem now to be admitting this; no one is suggesting that the friendly Muslim chap next door is working on a sadistic plan to destroy the world BUT with all of the abundant evidence we see of extremist Muslim terror around the globe one could be forgiven for being just a tad apprehensive!
Well, blow me down. There are friendly Muslims? Somebody tell the rest of Biased BBC’s resident bigots, who don’t seem to be able to grasp the concept.
Next you’ll be telling us that some of your best friends are Muslims, or perhaps even Jews…
goodness scezz!
you move around avoiding replying to posters (to your comments) more than nicked emus does.
theres confidence in your own position for you 😀
” friendly Muslims?” oxymoron alert
“I never felt intimidated in any way. We spoke to our neighbours, passed the time of day,” said the steward of the Manningham Labour Club. For a realistic view of that Muslim attempt at mass murder see:
http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/around-yorkshire/local-stories/firebomb-family-who-can-t-forget-1-2378008
for the sanitised BBC version:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-14030286
There may be moderate Muslims but there is no moderate Islam – its violence inciting texts are ever present in the background and induce a world view summed up by the apostate Anwar Shaikh: ‘Hatred of the non-Islamic is the pivot of Muslim existence.’
.
So please inform us who speaks on behalf of the ‘moderate’ Muslims (is it you?).
Also as you are so obviously familiar with the moderate side of Muslim life please explain why even these ‘moderates’ refuse to integrate into wider British society.
Interesting…
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-18750709
I wonder if the BBC will be making any similar announcements about Muslims barring particular members of its religious factions for harbouring supremacist and intolerant views… Don’t hold your breath!
The Church of England’s ruling synod is expected to ban clergy and church workers from belonging to organisations such as the British National Party.
I wonder if organisations such as the PSC and other “pro-Palestinian” groups are included, and one particular “Reverend Sizer”, for example…
http://hurryupharry.org/index.php?s=Sizer&x=6&y=3
Do members of the BNP believe in the Christian message then? Honest question BTW.
Isn’t this just a case of banning people who are unlikely to join in the first place?
Also quite ironic given that the BNP is now ‘open to all’ by popular (well legal) demand.
Archbishop of Canterbury reveals suicide vest beneath his cassock? Exploding underpants Catholics? Protestants found guilty of honour killing? Weslyan Methodists found guilty of raping cousin whose behaviour was un-Weslyan?
Face it, this is a vile homophobic mysogynistic medieval cult. Which bits don’t the MODERATE muslims go along with? Speak up!
‘Corrupt, sinister and dangerous.’
‘Today’ (0816) (http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_9735000/9735875.stm) had a little chat about ‘cults’…..definition…or main characteristic…’Its methodology in recruiting….are there techniques of psychological coercion to recruit, indoctrinate and retain members……such organisations are a serious problem and a human rights issue…removing free thought and free choice.’
Humphrys suggested we should be ‘more nervous of, on our guard about such organisations.’
Scientology was described by a judge as ‘Corrupt, sinister and dangerous.’
Make your own mind up how this applies to which ‘religion’ or ideology.
Nicke Emu has been criticising the Post. His criticism has been based on his assertion that Nazis are in some shape or form ‘bad people’ or dangerous….and therefore cannot be compared to followers of Islam.
Before he goes any further down that road I think he really needs to list why Nazis are ‘bad people’ and Fascism is ‘dangerous’.
If he cannot do that then he has no argument.
Are you for real? Are you seriously suggesting that we need to say why Nazism was bad? Do you entertain the idea that it was in some way good? I would say slaughtering six million Jews was all the evidence you need to suggest that the Nazis were ” in some shape or form ‘bad people’ or dangerous”. What kind of moral slime would even suggest that Nazis were not ‘bad people’?
My starting point in this thread was to ask for clarification as to what exactly it meant. You stated:
I was trying to establish if you were equating being a Muslim with being a member of the Nazi party. I asked you
Your reply was unequivocal:
Apart from the grotesque nature of that allegation (and you were the one to draw the parallel with the Nazis) the only viable Nazi parallel is that of the treatment of the Jews with those who make the grotesque comparisons taking the role of the Nazis.
As I demonstrated, and as someone (Zemplar — egged on by Harold) kindly proved, the language used to castigate Muslims is exactly that used by the Nazis against the Jews.
As for Biodegradable and your faux outrage, there is nothing for me to apologize for; rather it is for you and the others on this thread to apologize for the vile slur in comparing the law-abiding Muslim community in this country with the Nazis.
How do you explain the lack of condemnation, then, from the Muslim community for such atrocious acts like grooming, the terrorists strikes worldwide and the anti-Semitic rants? Apart from a couple of moderate spokespeople giving half-hearted apologies for the BBC camera we never ever here any heartfelt apology but rather the blaming of every other community for these problems; and how can you possibly defend Sharia law and the awful women’s rights in Islamic religion? And how can you defend Madrasa schools and Islamic views on homosexuality? Yes, of course, there are law abiding Muslims who don’t harm anyone but they still follow a book that calls for anyone who doesn’t submit, to be put to the sword; and Jews get it worse than Christians and Pagans.
How do you explain …
Fear?
“…we never ever here any heartfelt apology but rather the blaming of every other community for these problems.”
Harold, when are you going to give a genuine apology for the actions of Harold Shipman? He was White, English and Christian just like you.
Or do you think, perhaps, that your White English Community isn’t to blame?
What’s a dhimmi dez?
Dhimmi guys, DHIMMI! any ideas ? c’mon dont be shy! answers on a postcard please?
Someone who’s not very brighti?
IGMC
bog off! lol
Dez, what are you talking about? That is an incompetent analogy and doesn’t even merit a response. Harold Shipman was a sick maniac acting alone and never cited the Bible as a motivating factor for his hideous acts.
“That is an incompetent analogy and doesn’t even merit a response.”
You expect Muslims to apologise for the actions of fellow Muslims; but as a Christian you are unwilling to apologise for the actions of fellow Christians.
You can squirm all you want. Case closed.
Harold, when are you going to give a genuine apology for the actions of Harold Shipman? He was White, English and Christian just like you.
Interesting: I think there were hundreds of such “apologies” from all media and all walks of life.
You can deflect all you want; case closed.
.. TA RA! and yes … scezz suddenly appears 😀
Spurious moral equivalence – the hiding place of the Left (last tactic before before personal abuse is deployed).
Personally I think your commitment to Internationalism, and possibly your hatred of Britain’s history and culture, is blinding you to the dangers that other cultures might bring to these shores.
” law-abiding Muslim community ” err whose laws exactly?…your barbaric sharia version or the common law/statute law/ torts ?
Dysgwr_Cymraegm, are you honestly saying that every single Muslim is barbaric?
just the ones who follow their religious teachings…..just saying:
and yes !
http://apostates.weebly.com/ayatollah-khomeini-sex-with-children-and-animals.html
So, let me get this straight Dysgwr_Cymraeg, are you honestly suggesting that all Muslims are barbaric? That’s some statement!
yes get it straight, the barbaric practices covered up as sharia law, where a womans testimony is worth only half that of a man, punishing women for getting raped, killing apostates, killing homosexuals, etc etc…yes all barbaric and if you follow that yes you’re a barbarian savage.
just sayin.
Still waiting for an answer on what’s a DHIMMI ?
me sir – me sir
slang – (3) & (4) ????
uh oh 😀
the words, “haters” – “hatred” stand out like a red light, terminology most used by leftists/islamists in connection with deflection away from fact.
i would propose, a “dhimwit” is
A/. a person, indoctrinated/blinkered with the patently incorrect, deceitful “religion of peace” propaganda.
B/. one who is wilfully ignorant, of the multitude of dangerous factual facets of islam, or in fact an enabler of the the same.
come along guys: a simple question. heads out of sand now: define a dhimmi?
Too hard, too factual, doesn’t allow them to answer with a question or a piece of spurious moral equivalence.
I wonder how Lefties get schooled in these tactics as it seems a common characteristic of their breed?
Why are you so desperate to glean a response? You already have a pre-conceived answer… Is your eagerness for (a suitable) response a mechanism to reinforce your weak arguments or to reassure your own intolerance towards those who hold different opinions?
DHIMMI:
(1) Non-Muslims who live within Islamdom and have a regulated and protected status. In the modern period, this term has generally has occasionally been resuscitated, but it is generally obsolete.
(2) A protected and specially taxed status of certain non-Muslim subjects of a state governed in accordance with sharia law, under dhimma, a form of social contract.
(3) (Slang) A term of abuse invented by haters of Islam to attack those non-Muslims who don’t share their paranoia and hatred.
(4) (Slang) A person who makes repeated ill-informed attacks on Islam and Muslims in general, derived from the English word ‘dimwit’.
Hope that helps Dysgwr.
‘law-abiding Muslim community’ – if you mean sharia law. They occupy a disproportionate amount of gaol cells. They provide a greater than expected presence in the ‘struck off’ lists of the legal and medical professions. They’re responsible for the importation of almost 100% of the UK heroin supply. Muslim PC’s were described as ten times more likely to be corrupt than the average police officer according to the Metropolitan police. They ignore the laws against FGM on a comprehensive scale. A woman married to a man of Muslim background is 8 times more likely to be murdered by her husband than any other woman in the UK. The crime of murdering one’s daughter in cold blood for religious reasons has added a new horror to the record of violent crime in the UK. Home Affairs Committees aside, they seem to have made the crime of street grooming underage non-Muslim girls their own. One of the two hot spots for car insurance fraud in the country is Bradford. I read an account of a Muslim meeting in East London where one speaker said: ‘Why can’t the government legalise polygamy so that we don’t have to lie about having to bring over dependent sister-in-laws to the immigration authorities.’ I won’t bore you with subletting council houses, sharia courts not referring criminal acts to the police, hate speech, death threats, money laundering, using charities to fund terrorist organisations or the whole business of plotting and training for terrorist acts.
I could write you an essay about what the ideologies of Nazism and Islam have in common but there really is not enough space here and I get the feeling that you’re happy in your ignorance.
Well put Wally, i’m afraid nothing will deter the likes of Nicked Emus or Dez and others from their views of Islam not constituting any kind of threat to our society. Very much doubt if they have read the Koran, let alone the bible at length. They just get off on winding people up and screaming ‘bigot’ to give themselves some kind of pseudo moral supremacy. Well, i’ll bet MI5 and other overworked members of our secret services are just dreading taking their eyes off the ball for even a moment, as they struggle to keep tabs or stay ahead of who knows how many islamic terrorist cells plotting outrages in this country. A Mumbai type massacre is just around the corner, i’m sure. Just imagine, hooded and heavily armed muslim gangs letting rip in a shopping mall, shooting every white person in sight, kids in push-chairs, old people, teenagers etc….believe me, they will do this, so full of irrational hatred are they. Then let’s see what Dez and Nicked Emus say then, the morons.
They will claim our society radicalised them. Simple as. Total shite of course.
Some ‘excellent’ logic there Dysgwr_Cymraeg.
He’s right, though, it’s never their fault is it?
what’s a dhimmi slim?
What I will say then is what I said at the top of this post. There is a very serious and very real threat from Islamic terrorism.
But the guilt of a few does not make the rest guilty. Let’s take NI as a parallel. The fact that the IRA – and the nationalist terrorists – was able to carry out its attacks was because of the support of large sectors of the local community. Does that mean all Irish Catholics/Protestants are terrorists? No. (By the way do I think all Germans in WW2 were bad, no; do I think all people who joined the SS and took an active part in atrocities were bad, yes? And that goes for the Soviet Union too.)
Back to Islamic terrorism, without a doubt the biggest terror threat comes from Islamic groups. Without a doubt those groups have support. There is a sense of grievance; US foreign policy, the Iraq war, the Palestine question – take your pick.
The issue is how to isolate the terrorist from their support and to prevent radicalisation and identify its causes.
The easy – and intellectually lazy – approach is to say all muslims are terrorists ignoring the evidence, cherry-picking quotes from holy books (a dangerous sport) and going from the particular to the general. That does the work of the radicals for them – help them drive a wedge between the community and the rest of society. Radicals love sites like this.
The harder approach is to understand what causes radicalisation and take the steps to stop it.
The issue is disaffected young men (and it’s almost always young men) with little to lose and a sense of grievance.
The fact that I don’t condem an entire community for the actions of a few does not make me a shill. I realise on this site it does, but this is not a site characterised by its openness to debate.
And of course I have read the Koran and the Bible. I have also lived in the middle east in a Muslim country and traveled many times to Israel.
“And of course I have read the Koran and the Bible. I have also lived in the middle east in a Muslim country and traveled many times to Israel.”
Yeah right, whatever you say mate. Anyway, if you have, indeed, read the Koran you’ll realise that one doesn’t need to cherry pick as there is evidence in abundance for the calling of Holy war by the sword. And you cannot, as you liberals so deludedly believe, reason with fundamentalism – it’s simply impossible.
If we were debating a few zealots who like where I grew up, chastised you for hanging out your washing then your points might hold; but when dealing with a large and growing international supremacist ideology hellbent of wiping out non-believers, your reasoning simply isn’t viable.
I agree you can’t reason with fundamentalism, you have to separate the fundamentalists from everyone else and deal with them – either they renounce violence or you arrest them, or you kill them.
The problem with cherry picking is two fold. Firstly you leave yourself open to the same treatment and the bible is full of some pretty good nonsense; secondly you remove the context.
As it happens I think all these holy books are utter tosh and have no truck with any make-believe friends nor their deluded followers.
Nicked emus
You have gone from saying it is a ‘vile slur’ to equate Islam with Fascism to now saying followers of Islam (and other religions) are ‘deluded with make believe friends’….not only that but people who follow the basic tenets, the ‘fundamentals’, of their faith should be arrested or killed.
The Arch Bishop of Canterbury perhaps had better think twice before suggesting gay marriage is against Christian doctrine….perhaps, emu, you’d better put your address up on here just so that Jehovah’s Witnesses know to avoid knocking on your door!
You’ve had your fun, and we’ve played along, but bored with you now.
If you going to quote me at least have the decency to do it accurately.
I have noticed on this echo-chamber of a site that you don’t like it when people from outside the group-think challenge you.
Usually I don’t bother – you are harmless and why ruin your fun? However when you make grotesque slurs then you deserve to be challenged.
I take no sides in religious debates – they are fights about whose make believe friend is better.
But castigating an entire community over the actions of a few, of comparing that community to the Nazis when it is the people making the comparisons who are most like that vile group, then you deserve to be called up for it.
I know it will make no difference, but at least you know that your odious and contemptible opinions are not universal and those who hold them are not welcome in polite society.
Emu
So far you haven’t been much of a challenge…maybe if you actually engaged in the argument and defined why you think Islam is not like Fascism…something you have studiously avoided doing so far and instead have resorted to merely restating your belief…and so far that is all it is…and indulged in copious amounts of abuse…you may offer more sport.
As for an echo chamber…most commenters here seem right minded, fair, rational, reasoned and intelligent, and posting measured comments.
The fact that your comments, however abusive, remain on the post suggests we are more than happy to answer anyone who wants to criticise a post.
Let me know when you come up with the difference between a Muslim and an Islamist.
So you are saying all Germans who were National Socialists were mass murderers and that all Germans who supported Hitler, regardless of being members of the Nazi Party, are also tarred with the same brush?
Surely the people who advanced the anti-Semitic theories were merely perverting National Socialism…. anti-Semitism was endemic in Germany long before Hitler came along….and after all Mussolini killed no Jews.
But you are saying he is also responsible for the concentration camps because he was a Fascist.
How about if we were to compare islam to Communism…after all many respectable people endorse Communism including Shirley Williams.
How about Bertrand Russell?:
“Mohammedanism and Bolshevism are practical, social, unspiritual, concerned to win the empire of this world.”
So Bertrand Russell says Islam is the same as Communism…Communism which has killed many, many more millions of people than Hitler did.
Are you going to say comparing Islam to Communism is a ‘vile slur’?
When the Koran continually instructs its readers to ‘Believers, make war on the infidels…you shall be called upon to fight a mighty nation, unless they embrace islam….Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and hypocrites’…you can understand that non-Muslims should rightly have some concerns as to what is being taught in Mosques and other Islamic institutions.
To thoughtlessly endorse Islam, an ideology that not only insists that unbelievers be killed but that apostates also be killed….hardly a ringing endorsement for a religion that needs to have that sort of ring fencing is it?…is just the same attitude of those who cheered on Hitler turning a blind eye to his actions.
I’m certain you have some gay friends….explain to them why you shill for a religion that says gay people can be killed…the only question to be asked is how….either thrown off a mountain or stoned to death.
Alan, all that you say is perfected lucid and easily provable within minutes with professor Google (or Prophet Google perhaps). Not sure why Dez is feigning obtuseness.
He enjoys a good wind-up, he’s admitted it before, but his tactics are self-defeating. He cracks eventually – then disappears for a few weeks. Shame, really, so enjoy the sport whilst you can.
Nick your views of history have been rather distorted by Liberal views/education.
Nazi Germany was born out of WW1. The aristocrats of Europe having scrap and using the lives of the plebs to demonstrate their power.
Post war Germany was landed with enormous loss of human life as were all the combatants but also enormous reparation to the allies.
The German people were led/forced into National Socialism. The fact that Hitler and his goons were psycho but also brilliant orators who connected with the ordinary people’s plight was a tragedy but also a fact.
In most communities the Jews controlled and owned a lot of business and property and were only a rung below the aristocracy. The Jews were never seen as part of the community proper. The Jewish community saw themselves as separate for religious reasons. As the surge of National Socialism took hold the Jews became part of the problem because of their control of wealth and business. They were outside the parameters of National Socialism. Their wealth and connections made them a target for National Socialism in the standard Socialist way.
German National Socialism like Stalins motives created a situation where everyone was compelled to adhere to the script or face death. As the monster evolved it became ever more grotesque mainly because of the people driving it. So the people were forced into a climate of submission through the violence.
What Alan is saying is that the evolution of German National Socialism and its enforcement is little different to the enforcement of Islamic law. Within an Islamic environment there is no room for non adherence of Islamic rule. In Nazis Germany there was no room for people who did not adhere to the state rule. There were plenty of Europeans who can attest to that.
We have an open society here which respects the rights of individuals to have free and open relationships, religious beliefs, free speech (quickly being eroded) and right of political opinion. So given this situation why would a group whose rights are protected start engaging in the mass murder of fellow citizens? If this community feels that these murderers are not reflective of their beliefs why are they themselves not taking steps to prevent or apprehend the people they claim are not representative if them? Why does this community allow their men to rape the children of this nation?
Isn’t it really the case that this group like the German National Socialists see their beliefs as the only way and anyone that doesn’t adhere should be eradicated, The rape of women and children demonstrates their superiority and contempt for their hosts.
Funnily enough I was discussing this with my son who did A level History and so has had the authorised version of Germany in the 1930’s stuffed down his throat. He’s got a very one-dimentional view of the Nazis.
It’s always seemed to me that the Nazis were looking to fund their socialist policies and ripping the wealth of the Jews was one route to getting the dosh together for the reforms Hitler wanted. I’ve often wondered whether Hitler’s hatred of the Jews was a ruse or a co-incidence.
There must be studies of the Jewish community in Germany post-WW1? Were they really such an obvious target? Could their combined wealth really fuel Germany’s quick recovery in the 1930’s? Were the Jews a convenient pot of gold or was their wealth a ‘happy accident’ of Hitler’s madness?
More worrying, is history about to repeat itself?
Unlikely that their wealth was enough to make that much difference to the funding of a war. Ehat was important was peoples perception of their wealth and the suggestion that the wealth was obtained at the expense of the ordinay German.
We see simalar trend here when the socialists try to convinvce us that they can solve our economic problems and keep spending to grow the size of the state just by taxing a few rich people a bit more. The socalists or at least the intelligent ones know that is rubbish but it is a message that gets the rank and file behind them.
It is the importance of the message as propoganda over the truth of the message I am making the comparison with, I am not comparing our socialists with German National Socialism.
Perhaps we should have a special thread called:
“define a dhimmi”
for Dez and scotty and whitman.
The significance of the status of ‘dhimmi’ in Islam is a key threat against non-Muslims.
But INBBC would only allow Muslims to dictate its meaning.
‘Political Islam’ has:-
“The Two Kinds of Dhimmis”
http://www.politicalislam.com/blog/the-two-kinds-of-dhimmis/
Me sir. me sir has answered my question at last.
thank you for that comprehensive reply. Totally inaccurate of course, but an answer nevertheless.
The usual suspects avoided it though.
My personal experience with leftists twits and bed-wetting liberals is that they really don’t want to know the truth about Islam. Pointing out that Mohammed had about eleven wives, including one six year old, that he murdered people (yes, murder is the correct word) and that codified a hatred and intolerance of anyone who wasn’t a Muslim is “racist”. I’m “racist” for pointing this out, whilst engaging in endless vilification of the Jewish state of Israel is not racist.
When I point out how the Koran is jam-packed with exhortations to violence, how it teaches people to hate Jews, Christians and Polytheists, the standard response is: “What about the Bible?”. And if this pitiful attempt at equivalence is not enough there’s also the Crusades, the untruthful, PC, Ridley-Scott “Kingdom of Heaven” version of it, of course.
The bottom line is that Islam is a hellish ideology by any decent standards of the 21st Century. Most Muslims are decent people, but that is in spite of not because of Islam.
The longer the democratic world continues to be morally craven in facing up to the hard facts about Islam the worse it is going to be in the long run.
http://crossmuslims.blogspot.co.uk/2010/10/in-name-of-allah-au-nom-dallah.html
only for those with strong stomach.