Islam has long been appeased, and now for different reasons, the Christians are having their turn as Cameron tries to smooth things over with the troublesome Bishops.
Cameron has decided to ‘Do God’….and Miliband, not a Christian, nor religious, also recently jumped on the band wagon with a trip to Israel and a sudden discovery that he is Jewish….making sure he got in the headlines at Easter when otherwise he had nothing to say.
But it is Cameron’s statement that Britain is a ‘Christian country’ that has stirred things up…so much so that 55 of our greatest and brightest have written to the Telegraph to tell him to shut up about religion in politics….
David Cameron fosters division by calling Britain a ‘Christian country’
All the more interesting because the lead signatory is the BBC’s Jim Al-Khalili who sounds Islamic but ‘doesn’t have a religious bone in his body’……..and good to see Prof. Steve Jones in there…considering he is a ‘believer’ in the new religion of climate change perhaps a bit of a cheek….though no surprise that he should seek to silence anybody he disagrees with.
SIR – We respect the Prime Minister’s right to his religious beliefs and the fact that they necessarily affect his own life as a politician. However, we object to his characterisation of Britain as a “Christian country” and the negative consequences for politics and society that this engenders.
Apart from in the narrow constitutional sense that we continue to have an established Church, Britain is not a “Christian country”. Repeated surveys, polls and studies show that most of us as individuals are not Christian in our beliefs or our religious identities.
At a social level, Britain has been shaped for the better by many pre-Christian, non-Christian, and post-Christian forces. We are a plural society with citizens with a range of perspectives, and we are a largely non-religious society.
Constantly to claim otherwise fosters alienation and division in our society. Although it is right to recognise the contribution made by many Christians to social action, it is wrong to try to exceptionalise their contribution when it is equalled by British people of different beliefs. This needlessly fuels enervating sectarian debates that are by and large absent from the lives of most British people, who do not want religions or religious identities to be actively prioritised by their elected government.
Professor Jim Al-Khalili, President of the BHA
Phillip Pullman, author
Dan Snow, historian and broadcaster
Tim Minchin, musician and writer
Dr Simon Singh, science writer
Ken Follett, novelist
Dr Adam Rutherford, broadcaster and science writer
Sir John Sulston FRS, Nobel Prize-winning scientist
Sir David Smith FRS FRSE, eminent botanist
Professor Jonathan Glover, philosopher
Professor Anthony Grayling, philosopher
Nick Ross, broadcaster
CJ De Mooi, actor and professional quizzer
Virginia Ironside, writer
Professor Steven Rose, scientist and writer
Natalie Haynes, comedian and writer
Peter Tatchell, human rights campaigner
Professor Raymond Tallis FMedSci, physician, philosopher and author
Dr Iolo ap Gwynn FRMS, scientist and mountaineer
Stephen Volk, screenwriter and author
Professor Steve Jones, Professor of Genetics, science writer and broadcaster
Sir Terry Pratchett OBE, fantasy fiction author, satirist
Dr Evan Harris, former Liberal Democrat Member of Parliament and Vice President of the BHA
Dr Richard Bartle, Professor of Computer Game Design
Sian Berry, Green campaigner, politician and author
Professor John A Lee, consultant histopathologist and Professor of Pathology
Professor Richard Norman, philosopher
Zoe Margolis, author
Joan Smith, journalist and author
Michael Gore, CVO CBE
Derek McAuley, General Assembly of Unitarian and Free Christian Churches
Lorraine Barratt, former member of the Welsh Assembly
Dr Susan Blackmore, writer and broadcaster
Dr Harry Stopes-Roe, Vice President of the BHA
Sir Geoffrey Bindman QC (Hon), human rights lawyer
Adele Anderson, actor and singer
Dr Helena Cronin, co-director, Centre for Philosophy of Natural and Social Science
Professor Alice Roberts, Professor of Public Engagement in Science, anatomist, author and broadcaster
Professor Chris French, Professor of Psychology, editor of The Skeptic
Sir Tom Blundell, scientist
Maureen Duffy, poet, playwright and novelist
Baroness Whitaker, Labour peer
Lord Avebury, Liberal Democrat peer
Richard Herring, writer and comedian
Martin Rowson, writer and cartoonist
Tony Hawks, comedian, writer, musician and philanthropist
Peter Cave, philosopher and author
Diane Munday, campaigner
Professor Norman MacLean, Emeritus Professor of Genetics, biologist
Sir Harold Kroto FRS, Nobel Prize winner, Professor of Chemistry
Sir Richard Dalton, former diplomat
Sir David Blatherwick, KCMG, OBE, diplomat and writer
Michael Rubenstein, writer and legal expert
Polly Toynbee, columnist and broadcaster
Lord O’Neill, Labour peer
Warren Lakin, entertainment producer and writer
I just caught the end of a Today programme interview (08:32) on this, quick off the mark when they want to be as the letter was only published last night. Jack Straw and a member from the MCB were the talking heads.
Straw told us that of course it was only a small minority (ala the BBC’s Phil Mackie) who held strong beliefs about Islam and wanted to practice them [!?]….he claimed that those who said non-Muslims were ‘infidels’ or didn’t think women were the equal of men were extremists and unacceptable…the MCB guy agreed wholeheartedly.
Problem…such beliefs are at the heart of Islam, and indeed many religions. To have the MCB representative nod along and be allowed to get away with that was ridiculouos…the MCB is at the centre of the ‘Trojan Horse’ plot…..they may not have written that letter but the values expressed in it are the values that the MCB wants to impose upon schools and society.
As shown before the MCB introduced its ‘guidance’ to schools in 2007:
Meeting the needs of Muslim pupils in state schools
Towards Greater Understanding
Essentially pleading that Muslims will only be able to integrate if they don’t actually have to integrate and are allowed to live by their own laws and practices.
It was readily taken up by local authorities….in other words the Islamic principles criticised by Straw and now creating such a furore in Birmingham were openly recommended by the MCB and taken up by the Establishment and recommended as ‘best practice’.
A weak establishment is letting Islamists threaten British freedoms
All Islamist schools of thought are hostile to democracy
It is odd that the BBC brings in the MCB, well known as ‘extremist’ in its views, as representative of the community…….which we heard was so ‘diverse’.
A contradiction there…..if extremists (those who actually follow their religion apparently) are only a ‘small minority’ how is it that the ‘extremist’ MCB represents the whole Muslim community on the BBC?
Surely the ‘extremist’ MCB only represents ‘a small minority’ then... with er… ‘strongly held religious beliefs‘ and not any other Muslim.
As for the Humanist letter writers…Humanism is just an ideology the same as any religion….democracy, freedom of thought, expression and speech, tolerance and human rights……they want to impose those upon all……and yet deny others the right to differ.
In other words it’s OK to impose that for the common good but not Christianity…..depending on what you think the common good is…and they have decided their version of life is the best and should be triumphant.
In other words their claim that ‘We are a plural society with citizens with a range of perspectives, and we are a largely non-religious society.‘ is bunk….they pay lip service to that then impose their ‘one law for all’.
One law for all is their message regardless what others think…does that ‘ foster alienation and division in our society.‘? Muslims constantly claim it does….insisting they can only ‘integrate’, ironically, by not integrating and living by their own rules.
Bit of a muddle from all……the letter writers are in fact expressing the BBC world view….and being equally confused….don’t impose one ideology in order to not alienate the ‘other’ but do impose the ‘others’ religion upon everyone else turning them into ‘virtual Muslims’ by default.
The letter says: ‘Although it is right to recognise the contribution made by many Christians to social action, it is wrong to try to exceptionalise their contribution when it is equalled by British people of different beliefs.’
So your own culture and values are worth no more than any other and therefore anyone coming into the country can live by their own rules?
That is the line taken by Islamists like Tariq Ramadan, a BBC favourite:
“But we have to also ask our fellow citizens [to remove the ghettos] by recognising European society has changed. We have to get rid of this idea that there is this homogenous European culture that Islam threatens.”
In other words there’s no such thing as ‘Western Society and culture’ that needs ‘defending’….
‘Ramadan does not see Muslim identity and European identity as mutually exclusive. He claims that today Muslims are already Europeans and calls indigenous people “just older immigrants,” ‘
This from the man who utters prayers such as this:
“Allah we ask you because you are Allah, strengthen the faith of our brothers and sisters in Palestine, Allah strengthen their faith in Palestine and make them triumphant over the enemy, Your enemy, the enemy of the religion (Islam) with your mercy, oh, Generous one. Allah strengthen their faith in Palestine, in Chechnya, Afghanistan, in Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, in Egypt, Sudan, Kashmir and in every land and on every battlefield. Allah, strike our enemies, Your enemies, the enemies of the religion (Islam). “
This is from the MCB …’In 2008, Mr Alam publicly argued “against advocating that desegregation [in schools] should be actively pursued” and stressed the “obligatory nature” of the hijab for Muslim women and girls.…written by Tahir Alam…one of the people at the centre of the Trojan Horse allegations…..note his statements about the obligatory nature of Islamic practices….
Tahir Alam Muslim Council of Britain
Recommendation VI Para 1.
On desegregation strategies: I would caution against advocating that desegregation should be “actively pursued”. This in the main may not be possible nor desirable by minority communities or by indigenous majorities communities. Segregation in schools in the main results from segregational residential housing rather schooling choices. Such advocacy would therefore be not relevant in too many cases where it is impossible to relocate and or compel tens of thousands of people to move or be bussed to different schools!!!!
Recommendation VI para 4.
Rephrase this as follows:
“In relation to the right to manifest religion in schools or educational institutions; Special instruments……between religious minorities and educational institutions that serve them with the view to better understanding and accommodating their religious needs within schools.”
(The word “secular” should not be used as a category as this is inaccurate and incorrect for education systems in many country)
The word religious “preferences” seems to diminish the obligatory nature of many religious practices such as wearing of head headscarfs, praying the five daily prayers or Modesty -values of covering ones body (dress code), fasting during Ramadan etc.
“Religious symbols” Again wearing headscarf for example is not a symbolic act but a matter of modesty, dignity, religious obligation and duty to God. Reducing it to “religious symbol” is to negate the obligatory nature of its importance to those that decide to wear it.
If only those same 55 people spoke up more about Islam and specifically Islamism.
Presumably we can take it that they are not Christian ? Obviously a bunch of out of touch misfits ?
Britain has just celebrated a holiday (Easter)
Old English = hāligdæg ‘holy day’.
The country’s holidays are :- Easter , Whitsun & Christmas. all public holidays and all Christian.
Liberals up in arms over British PMs ‘Christianity message’
The above takes you to my spot on this and on checking the names of those who signed this crap I finish with this little snippet:
Funny enough, a vast majority of the signatories have very strong connections to the British (And Christianity) hating bBC funny that?
The usual suspects getting uppity when a right of centre person says something they can moan about between their BBC appearances is not news. I do wonder if any of them actually spoke to someone who isn’t Christian to see if they were offended before ranting…
Dan Snow’s name is on that list too.
Who is famous for being, erh, Peter Snow’s son.
What has he achieved to comment on anything? Well you could say he did got to Balliol College, Oxford. You would be correct…but erh so did his daddy. Nepotism? Surely not.
Of course he’s also well known in his own right for presenting many history programmes.
Is the reason you hide behind a pseudonym just so that you can sneer at other people’s achievements without having to publicly admit you have none of your own? Or do you have other reasons too?
Scotty wrote:
Of course he’s also well known in his own right for presenting many history programmes.
And having watched a number of his so called historical programs, I have personally found them not only weak, but historically incorrect. But hey I am talking about the bBC.
Yes agreed as a military researcher I find his battle lite fluff utterly annoying all sweeping views and sweeping statements where as Prof R . Holmes was a brilliant and insightful reviewer of history D.[nepotism ] Snow is just a pretty boy script reader monkey !
I quite like Dan Snow, seems a nice chap, reasonably good at presenting, but I do have a sneaky suspicion that he wouldn’t have the career he has if his father didn’t work for the BBC.
He is married into the richest family in the country.
A new model fauxcialist
‘Snow was educated at St Paul’s School. went on to Balliol College, Oxford,a great-great-grandson of British Prime Minister David Lloyd George.
On 27 November 2010, Snow married criminologist Lady Edwina Grosvenor, the second daughter of the 6th Duke of Westminster ‘
No wonder the BBC love him so much. So much so that.
‘Snow presented his first programme in October 2002 just after graduating from university’
(I long for the day when Victoria Corren is forced to say ‘yes the connection is nepotism’)
Bourgeois liberal patrician class ? self organising leftist conspiracy within the media or just whirlwind in a junk yard?
Just because I’m paranoid doesn’t mean there’s no ‘liberal Inquisition’
Nepotism ?
Coren Mitchell was born in Hammersmith and grew up in Cricklewood next door to Cricklewood Studios. She is the daughter of Dr Anne Coren (née Kasriel) and the humorist and journalist Alan Coren, and the sister of journalist Giles Coren. She attended girls’ independent schools from the ages of 5 to 18,[4] and read English at St John’s College, Oxford,[5] graduating with a first-class degree.
Coren Mitchell writes weekly columns for The Observer and The Guardian newspapers and hosts the BBC Four television quiz show Only Connect.
I have a day dream where the connect board is made up entirely with the names of BBC luminaries, the team arranges the names into 4 groups .’For extra points’ says Coren ‘can you tell me the connection’
In each case,of course, it is nepotism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nepotism
So, what are your achievements Scott? Got any you’d like to share?
How about “not hiding behind a pseudonym”? Or “not being an up-my-own-arse egotist who can’t accept that my own views aren’t the be-all-and-end-all”? Those are two achievements which the majority of Biased BBC’s lunatic commenters can’t claim.
Of course, there are people on here who seem to think that “making up facts to bolster their own prejudice” is an achievement. Or “being so desperate to believe that they are superior that they react badly to anyone and everyone who’s different from them”.
Well done you. Such a winner aren’t you? I’m all goose bumps just thinking of your supremacy.
Did you manage this all by yourself or did you get help? Please let me know as I’m desperate to follow in your glorious footsteps.
You are sooooo dreamy!
A ‘historian’ who once talked about a celebratory service being held under the dome of St Paul’s in 1588.
I`d have thought that gay marriage -having been enforced onto an unwilling nation-was far more divisive than any banalities from the Rev Cam.
But that sack of Poly dollies, kiddies writers and unfunny BBC quiz merchants won`t be citing that as a divisive thing….now had Cameron said we were a Muslim nation, I bet al Khalilis family and mates would heave ensured he`d find that religious series of bones in his body that`s called a spine…obviously we`d never have known of it were it not for Islams cultural gifts to the rest of us.
No wonder the great God Climate change is so worshipped-this array of media junkies with a bit of science on the side would worship a cat if it got them four more years on the telly, or a grant form the IPCC.
Still-comical stuff eh?…and the likes of John Lennox or Alistair McGrath(even Francis Spufford) can only laugh at the quality of anti-Christs we`re faced with.
Beria they ain`t!
No matter though-second billing on the BBCs news earlier…so maybe Savile could give us the run down on the Top of The Pots news crap headlines this first week after the Resurrection.
Hog tied for Islam…self basting chicken lickers all of `em.
Work out your own salvation…bin the Beeb!
I`d have thought that gay marriage -having been enforced onto an unwilling nation-was far more divisive than any banalities from the Rev Cam.
Have you been forced into a same-sex marriage? How does allowing same-sex couples to marry affect you in any way? Other than “it gives me something else to ineffectually wail about”, of course…
As much as I disagree with Scotty, I have to agree with him here. Gay people are just human beings like everybody else. While I have no issue with them, I do with those very vocal (screaming queen) pressure groups who continue to play the victim card by being even more outrageous in their quest to be seen as…different.
There has since the beginning of time always been homosexuals ( I hate the term gay ) there always will be homosexuals, leave them alone, treat them as equals, each to there own. Life’s too short for any aggro’.
There are nasty’s in all sexuality’s. Nature is a bit of a twat when it comes to the reproductive process.
Wrong end of the turkey baster as ever Capitaine!
Gay marriage is, was and will be a divisive issue.
But that`s OK according to you…the rest of us will simply have to acquiesce and get with the programme.
It` s divisive issue…got that?…but its the kind of division you`re happy to see for “progress sake”.
That these fifty get second billing on the news bulletins for this anti-Chrisitain popshot for “being divisive” is your problem.
The clue is in the word “marriage”…which Jesus himself knew of and mentions.
Your Beeblite piracy of the word seems to make you a divisive figure…not me.
I don`t give a stuff!
I don`t give a stuff!
If that were really the case, you wouldn’t have brought it up in the first place.
Obtuse or what.
Gay Marriage-a healing force for good, if any objects-burn them or deny them a job or a platform.
This is not divisive…
Christianity-a socially destructive force, no roots in the Middle east or this country, no legal, royal or cultural significance at all…the cause of bigotry.
This apparently is a divisive force-and can`t be agreed upon, unlike the need to turn the word “marriage” into a husk that means what the Guardian lexicon says it does.
Which is compulsory and mandatory, unilaterally turned into whatever we say it is.
No I don`t give a stuff Scott-it`s expected from you and your like…I prefer to stick with what Jesus said, how HE understood it.
But if that`s too certain or scary-start with Orwell who has your ilk stuffed at every turn.
I`d give you the scriptures about the Resurrection being an offence, the Gospel being divisive and even Jesus part in saying that He was sent specifically to be the cause of divisions…but hey, it`s not Easter any more, so we`ll discuss next year shall we?
Maybe your Guardian Thesaurus or old Radio Times might help until then…for now, I don`t need to worry-but you probably do, given the urgency and ignorance abounding.
Over and out.
I prefer to stick with what Jesus said
And he said nothing about homosexuality. But you still keep bringing it up time after time, and then insist you’re not bothered by it.
Here’s a thought. Try not being offended by same-sex couples’ love for, and commitment to, one another. You may just find that you enjoy not being an uptight, bitter old man.
You thick or what?(forgive the lack of grammar).
Did I say he said anything about homosexuality?…no!
Did I say that he used the word marriage-and what he meant in saying it is very much what the world thought of it too-until a few years ago…and unchanged here in the UK until a few months ago.
I am not the slightest bit offended at your grievance mongering my child…but do stick to the facts-and the main thrust of what I`m saying.
Gay marriage…divisive.
Christianity…not divisive, save when Jesus wants it so.
Yet in your head…polar opposite!
And wilfully so…you tend to go in for the personal ad hominem stuff when you`ve no argument.
Still- a fly by snot flicked at the window is as good as it gets from you…and we accept your right to do so.
My objection is a semantic one. Our language changes slowly. It always has. Suddenly by state diktat ” marriage” now means something else. The previous definition of marriage having been understood as between a man and a woman holding for centuries.
If the state can abruptly alter meaning what other important concepts will a future state feel able to change?
Freedom? Peace? The sanctity of life?
It is this way tyrrany starts. The state decrees the truth as it sees fit.
Many of us objected to the gay marriage on these grounds and on no other. So less of the accusations of so called bigotry and more thought please.
Capitaine Scotty!
Yours seems an extreme individual response.
That I myself am not affected does not mean that I simply have to confine myself to that.
We are a cohesive community are we not?…unity is strength and in diversity too, I think you`ll find in your Guardian playbook.
I feel their pain…those you seem not to care about.
As long as one Christian B&B owner, one nursery worker is “oppressed”-then I make no apology for passionate advocacy for the cause.
Try and think of others apart from yourself Scott…I know that I do!
Beam me up!
“Capitaine ” Ha Ha – only just got it, Chrish.
That’t the danger of avatars!
That list is basically a who’s who of lefties, liberals and Labour luvvies. Pathetic! And what’s it got to do with the likes of Terry Prattshit?
Let it be his last word on the subject-and is he still compost mentis to pronounce on such issues?
I myself find his “Dignitas View” rather divisive…but maybe somebody is using his name to add to the list.
Abusive thought crime there at discworld sarge!
Going down the list of signatories, there is not one of them who has a proper (ie. wealth producing and therefore beneficial to the prosperity of our country) job. I’m sure that for every one of these professional squealers, there are many who would say otherwise, if only they had access to the media on the same basis as these people.
Wankers.
All that list demonstrates is the vanity and intolerance of the “liberal” left. The costless heroics of people awarding themselves medals for attacking the intolerance of the man who brought about legislation enabling homosexuals to marry.
Ah the bBC has seen the light, its masters have given them permission to endorse the PMs stance:
David Cameron Christianity claim backed by religious groups
Religious groups have backed Prime Minister David Cameron’s assertion Britain is “a Christian country”……The Muslim Council of Britain said the UK was a largely Christian country…..Muslim Council of Britain secretary general Farooq Murad said nobody could deny the UK remained a largely Christian country with “deep historical and structural links” to Christianity.
As this is the bBC they come out with this:
Human rights campaigner Peter Tatchell told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme it was “not factually accurate” to call Britain a Christian country. He said a YouGov poll found 65% of people questioned described themselves as “not religious”, while 29% said they were. He said those people would have come from a range of faiths – not just Christianity
And to think so many of the gay variety just can’t wait to get married (You know marriage that holy union that comes from….religion)
Oh look there’s that ‘H’ word again.
That is a list of those who think they have the right to pontificate to us scum.
Extraordinary this sense of entitlement the liberal elite now has. I see it as a desperate attempt to justify their dereliction of duty to the country since the 1960s.
They are of little account. Ignore them and their like. The world is changing and they are going to be left behind.
Whatever you do make sure you send a message to the elite at the EU election. No more.
Handy list come the revolution/civil war!
Warren Lakin……….wasn’t he Mr Linda Smith?
Do you mean
Marxist agitprop merchantNational Treasure and former prez of the British Humanist Association Linda Smith ? Then yep.In fact, this seems to be about all he’s achieved if you google his name tbh, which makes him another one of the stellar additions to these lists to go with the likes of public shagging fan Stan Collymore on that “Let’s have a republic” one a little while ago. Such fearsome opposition for us reactionary fools ! However can we prevail ?
Whoops. Last sentence should be: “How ever can we prevail ?”