The BBC reported this but didn’t seem to think it significant and the issues, suh as freedom of speech or indeed the issues raised by Weston himself, worthy of exploration…how different the benevolent coverage for the Muslim suicide bomber, or someone encarcerated in Guantanamo Bay, or a ‘community leader’ claiming Muslims are alienated and victimised, radicalised by British foreign policy.
Wonder what the reaction would have been if Paul Weston had quoted Churchill’s statements from his ‘History of The English Speaking People’s’:
On dealing with quislings and appeasers….
‘It is the primary right of men to die and kill for the land they live in, and to punish with exceptional severity all members of their own race who have warmed their hands at the invader’s hearth.’
Or on the foolishness of those who adopt the customs and beliefs of the invaders:
‘Step by step they were led to practices which disposed to vice – the lounge, the bath, the elegant banquet. All this in their ignorance they called civilisation, when it was but part of their servitude.’
From that we take a leap to Halal meat, its unannounced introduction into non-Muslim’s diets and the BBC’s reporting of the issues.
The BBC stuck pretty rigidly to the technical issues surrounding Halal slaughter and concluded that there was little difference between the way animals slaughtered for Halal meat and non-Halal meat are treated…if stunned.
This of course dodges the question of religion and the fact that Muslims will object loudly and aggressively if given non-Halal meat but non-Muslims, because they don’t complain so aggressively, are fed Halal meat without any regard for their beliefs or concerns.
As far as slaughtering is concerned there is no reason why animals for Halal slaughter shouldn’t be stunned as long as they are not killed by that ‘stunning’.
According to this study animals not stunned feel the pain of having their throat cut, as you might expect:
Animals feel the pain of religious slaughter
Blood must drain completely from an animal to comply with religious requirements but some claim this doesn’t happen in stunned animals. However a study shows that there should be no objections to stunning as blood drains just as fast from a stunned, and unconscious, animal as from an unstunned one, and as long as the animal is only stunned and not dead this is permissible:
Halal-standard slaughtering doesn’t need animals awake
On the technical side the BBC is correct but the issues are deeper than purely ones of animal welfare and are symbolic of the way that Muslim culture, practices and belief have been forced upon the rest of the population by either commercial enterprises looking to cut corners and make a profit (selling Halal to all but not able to sell non-Halal to all) or Establishment organisations looking to appease Muslims whilst dismissing the concerns of the non-Muslims…often as the BBC’s ex-DG Mark Thompson said they don’t pack an AK47 at the end of the day:
“Without question, ‘I complain in the strongest possible terms’, is different from, ‘I complain in the strongest possible terms and I am loading my AK47 as I write’,” he said. “This definitely raises the stakes.”
Imagine the uproar if it was deemed that only non-Halal meat was to be served or sold in the UK….but no one was told….Instead we have the opposite, the ‘Trojan Sheep’ fed to us by commercial enterprises all too willing to ride roughshod over sensibilties in the search for a quick buck (as they do also with cheap immigrant labour) and an Establishment all to ready to appease an aggressive minority many of whom make veiled threats if they don’t get their way…‘the youth will be angry and we can’t guarantee to control them.’
Essentially people are being forced to adopt Muslim culture either because it is easier and cheaper to make everyone conform to the minority rather than make separate arrangements for that minority…or, heaven forbid, make the minority conform to the norm.
Going to be a bit of a nightmare when the Sikhs, Hindus, Jews, Buddhists, Pagans, Jedi Warriors all want equal billing and their own brand of belief catered for…literally or otherwise.
The BBC has long been famous for its grovelling approach to Islam….whether Room 101’s approach, or Nicky Campbell’s craven prostration and self-abasement when talking of Islam and of his great respect for it, or Thompson’s admission that Islam gets special treatment due to the unique nature of any likely complaints.
With that in mind this article from the New Statesman might make interesting reading:
The challenge of Islam
The author, David Selbourne, was asked by John Kerry to write a briefing paper on the Islamist threat. He explains here what he told the US secretary of state and why he feels progressives have allowed themselves to be silenced by frightened self-censorship and the stifling of debate.
A beheading in Woolwich, a suicide bomb in Beijing, a blown-up marathon in Boston, a shooting in the head of a young Pakistani girl seeking education, a destroyed shopping mall in Nairobi – and so it continues, in the name of Islam, from south London to Timbuktu. It is time to take stock, especially on the left, since these things are part of the world’s daily round.
There is an objective historical need, and duty, to record radical Islam’s many-sided and determined advance upon the “infidel” world. Most still do not know what manner of force – the millions of peaceful Muslims notwithstanding – has struck it. And, with its own arms and ethics, it will continue to do so, perhaps till kingdom come.
The left continues covertly to celebrate US foreign policy blunders and defeats, while the naive see jihadists as a minority of “fanatics”. It is not so simple. To add to the confusion, President Obama’s stances, however well intentioned, have made their own contribution to the Islamic renaissance. Or as he expressed it in a speech in Cairo in June 2009, America and Islam “share common principles . . . of justice and progress, tolerance” – tolerance? – “and the dignity of all human beings”.
The non-Muslim world is too unaware of what is afoot, hobbled by its wishful thinking and lack of knowledge, and whistling in the dark. In a position paper I wrote for him [John Kerry], I set out a list of the failures that the west, and especially the US, has on its hands. Among them are the failure to recognise the ambition of radical Islam; the failure to condemn the silence of most Muslims at the crimes committed in their names; the failure to respond adequately to the persecution of Christians in many Muslim lands; the failure to grasp the nature of the non-military skills that are being deployed against the non-Muslim world – skills of manoeuvre, skills in deceiving the gullible, skills in making temporary truces in order to gain time (as in Iran); and, perhaps above all, the failure to realise the scale and speed of Islam’s advance.
“If things continue like this,” I told friend Kerry, “the history of our age may one day be written under a caliphate’s supervision.” I added brashly: “Get your aides to read the Quran. Keep political correctors at bay,” and “stop looking for the emergence of Jeffersonian democracies in Muslim lands”. “It has gotten me thinking,” he replied; and after further exchanges, “I agree with a great deal of what you’ve said.”
Islamists make no bones about their aspiration for “mastership of the world”, as Mohamed Badie, the Muslim Brotherhood leader, put it in December 2011. Muslim (and not merely Islamist) disdain for “the west” is also growing; in July 2012, the speaker of the Iranian parliament described it as a “dark spot in the present era”.
Such confidence, or arrogance, is easily understood. For these are times in which conversions to Islam in western countries are accelerating.
To the aid of Islam has also come the betrayal by much of today’s left of its notionally humane principles, as Christians are assaulted and murdered (shades of what was done to the Jews in the 1930s) and their churches desecrated and destroyed from Egypt to the Central African Republic, from Iran to Indonesia, and from Pakistan to Nigeria. Islam can kill its own apostates, too; in many Muslim countries denies reciprocity to other faiths in rights of worship; and seeks to prevent reasoned discussion about its beliefs by attempted resort to blasphemy laws.
So where is the old left’s centuries-long espousal of free speech and free thought? Where is the spirit of Tom Paine? The answer is simple. It has been curbed by frightened self-censorship and by the stifling of debate, in a betrayal of the principles for which “progressives” were once prepared to go to the stake.
And just as some Jews are too quick to call anti-Zionists “anti-Semites”, so some leftists are too quick to tar critics of Islam as “Islamophobes”.
To add to such falsehoods come the illusionists of every stripe, with their unknowing, simplistic or false descriptions of Islam as a “religion of peace”. Even today’s Pope – as the Christian faithful were being harried, persecuted or put to the sword in Nigeria, Syria, Iraq and beyond – told the world in November 2013 that “authentic Islam and the proper reading of the Quran are opposed to every form of violence”. But read the text yourself, and you will see that jihadists can find plenty justification for the acts they commit, even if most Muslims are pacific.
The present renaissance of Islam, additionally provoked, as ever, by western aggressions against its lands, is an old story of swift movement and conquest, as in the 7th century. Is something like it stirring again? Perhaps; you decide. In 50 years’ time the world will know for sure.
Karl Marx was wiser than the Pope. In March 1854, he wrote that for “Islamism” – the word was already in use – “the Infidel is the enemy” and that the Quran “treats all foreigners as foes”.
The BBC, and many others, some all too well connected to the Saudi Royal family or Qataris, are in denial about what the Koran says…or all too willing to adopt the practices for themselves and others…that ‘servitude’ Churchill spoke of.
Even today as Boko Haram marauds around Nigeria slaughtering hundreds in the name of Islam the BBC insists that it is poverty and inequality that drives them…never mind the name, the beliefs or that half of Nigeria has been Islamised and Christians made to submit or be chased from the north of the country.
What will it take to make the likes of the BBC admit that the Koran inspires this radicalism, that the Koran urges conquest and colonisation, that the Koran entraps its adherents and is designed so that the Religon will always expand, grow and eventually dominate any society it infiltrates?
Until the BBC et al does admit that, and they recognise the problem for what it is and what it means for the future, there will never be any resolution.
It goes to show how far left RSPCA have gone. Back in the day they would have been all over this. This should have been bigger than fox hunting but no.
The RSPCA have not only messed up their own brand, but are at the forefront of a sea change in public attitudes to charity work in general.
I don’t know if they are getting desperate or it’s ‘the season’ or the coming elections have seen fresh data on the voter register, but I have recently had several calls ‘just to see how I’m doing’ from a bunch of charities.
I used to be easily seduced into a donation.
Now I ask what political activity the charity they are soliciting for engage upon, and if so how much goes to funding this.
I also ask the extent of paid senior staff and what the salary and pension bills are as a proportion of donation to actual support to beneficiaries in need.
So far none has had a clue, making terminating the call politely an easy out.
I feel a bit sorry for them as I think most are unpaid volunteers, and on a few occasions the exchange has left them discomfited.
Luckily, most charitable donation is a matter of free choice, but like the BBC licence fee I do understand government does find ways to secure such contributions from the public even if the expenditure is not what they feel is well spent.
NSPCC are another charity which has moved so far to the left and political correctness, that it is now completely unable to focus or perform the activities which it was originally supposed to do.
So a white person is warned that even touching their child is technically an assault, whilst an Asian child with Dyspraxia coming back to school on Friday covered in bruises from the Madrassa, because ‘he can’t worship Allah properly’, is simply ignored because they don’t want to get involved with cruelty in the Muslim community.
Similarly at Barnardos where PC loony Martin Narey ex Civil Service ‘diversity champion’ (Read head of secret police) denied categorically that there was any issue with Muslim grooming gangs and the children in his care.
Following the prosecution of several of these gangs and the revelation that they targeted kids in care, the left wing blinkers and socialist rose tinted glasses were so successfully welded to his mind that he was completely incapable to allowing reality to intervene, and he retired claiming still that there wasn’t an issue.
I never give to big charity, only local ones, and that way I know the money will be spent on what it’s supposed to be spent on.
Yes, the Veggie Brigade have been very quiet of late on this subject. Perhaps they fear creating a spark that will engulf them in flames, so surrounded in methane that they are.
But I don’t really think this is a subject that engages many people. Most meat eaters, I believe, are happy not to know how their meat is produced. Halal is not going to move them any further than kosher so if Sainsbury’s are selling them halal pork chops they won’t care as long as the price doesn’t go up.
As to Subway offering halal meats, well what would you do with your Tower Hamlets’ branch? Let it go bust? They are not complying with Sharia but bowing to commercial realities. Now, the reason why those realities exist may worry some but for most if they can get their bacon sandwich on a Friday why would they care?
Never underestimate the power of apathy. 🙁
Brilliant last sentence. The tail is wagging the dog and nobody notices.
Sadly, you are right. The subject came up in our office and the response was “Doesn’t bother me. I had a chicken pizza at Pizza Express and it didn’t taste any different.”
People prefer not to think where these pieces of food come from and if someone is crying “racist” it’s an extra reason not to care. Easier to worry about something safer like battery hens or foie gras.
I’m veggie and I don’t think you can blame the ‘veggie brigade’ ,which is actually quite small, on ritual slaughter. I think you can blame the groups which are usually vocal about food labelling e.g . the BBC who want to connive at concealing from people how their meat has been killed.
Halal pork chops 🙂 🙂 🙂
It’s the BBC tilting the playing field again. The way they set out the terms of the debate assumes that it’s outrageously outrageous to expect Muslims to eat non-Halal food, but also perfectly reasonable to expect non-Muslims to eat Halal. The bias is baked into the central premise.
…But the most noticeable thing about it all is yet again we have a supposed ‘news organisation’ that doesn’t want to report stuff. What we’re talking about is the right of people to know what they’re eating and make informed choices, but the BBC is like an anti-matter version of the Hollywood journalist, jumping up and down shouting ‘the people don’t have a right to know’. They support press freedom, providing they’re free not to actually publish anything useful.
The animals rights protesters, so visible in response to abuses of laboratory animals, are silent on the cruelty entailed in slaughter by exsanguination. And where are the Greens? Is Caroline Lucas about to get arrested protesting outside of an halal abattoir? The BBC tells us about the prayers said over the animal during slaughter. Do people think that each chicken, each lamb, on the assembly line has its own prayer? They use a loudspeaker, blasting out the heathen sounds which probably add to the animals misery as it bleeds to death, choking in its own blood. Or maybe, if stunned, it is unaware of the prayers on its behalf.
Our government should be aware of the reports from the Farm Animal Welfare Council which condemn these practices from a welfare perspective. They ought to – the taxpayer funded them, and they were produced by veterinary scientists and those with knowledge and experience in the processing of animals for food. I have yet to see the BBC reach out to these reports, although an ocasional shrinking violet from the veterinary community has spoken out.
Halal has very little to do with religion. It is the usual thing that corrupts us all. CASH.
As an accountant in an abattoir I remember well when it started and that was 35 years ago. To sell meat to the RoP the Imam has to say the ritual words before the throat is cut and the animal bled to death. The Imam then goes to the office to collect his fee. In CASH.
The slaughtermen thought the whole thing was disgusting and cruel to the beasts but the owners forced this practice on the company because they wanted the business. The CASH.
The meat was not however destined for local shops but for a very big supermarket. They wanted Halal meat to service a growing demand from folks of the RoP and they just could not turn down the CASH.
The government meat inspectors in the abattoir and the rest of us employees were also told to accept this barbaric practice or lose our jobs and with families to feed and mortgages to pay what can you do? Take the CASH.
I forgot to mention. The government is apparently keeping out of this debate. I wonder why?
Certainly Dave has appeared chillaxed to the point of comatose.
Which is odd, as usually he’s in like Flint on matters of choice and meddling with how retailers tell us what is good for us. Or not.
Equally his erratic BFF’s at the BBC, who at the first hint of an errant glucose molecule or incorrectly recycled PEP bottle go ballistic on the need for state intervention, but are suddenly seeing this as a simple matter between suppliers and blissfully ignorant demand. Moving on…
Maybe the BBC is a wee bit less keen on the notion of majority consumer opt-in choices on what we’re fed getting higher on the public radar and consciousness as The Future of the BBC’s uniquely compelled funding in perpetuity and accountability-free blanket FoI exemptions is quietly locked down off piste?
Yes, our pathetic dhimmi Prime Minister was quite happy to tell W H Smith’s not to put Chocolate Oranges by the checkouts, but goes weak at the knees at the thought of offending the Muslim lobby. And then they wonder why people have no pride in our country. What’s left of our poor country to have any pride in?
Because They Are Chicken
I have raised this issue with Waitrose in one of their stores near to me, in relation to lamb, on more than one occasion. It was clear from the outset that they wished to keep it quiet that all New Zealand lamb is halal. I could see the intention to lie and obfuscate in the eyes and mannerisms of the staff. All New Zealand lamb is halal.
It is astonishing the extent to which people will bend the knee to corporate dishonesty in their daily work. The Directors are the originators of this deceit and require their staff to lie to customers, and this of course is the organisation that claims the moral high ground in retailing – John Lewis. They are the greater hypocrites for that.
If anyone buys halal food they are submitting to the muslim religion. It’s an acceptance that islam is supreme and is in control of your beliefs.
And if you wish to take a stance, look at the English Democrats party who oppose halal.
If what you are saying is true then Beef and Lamb New Zealand are lying through their teeth.
From the link:
“Is the Halal method of slaughtering animals in full compliance with animal welfare requirements in New Zealand?
In New Zealand, all commercial slaughter of livestock, including religious slaughter, must be undertaken in a humane manner in accordance with New Zealand’s animal welfare laws. These laws require animals to be ‘stunned’ immediately prior to slaughter. Stunning ensures an immediate loss of consciousness to prevent animals from feeling any pain during the slaughter process.”
The animals ARE stunned before slaughter. I was in NZ when they started supplying lamb to Iran (1979). It was agreed that Iranian slaughter men should do the killing but that the animals would be stunned first.
Not quite the issue though is it? All the animals are stunned before slaughter. Some of them have a ‘prayer’ muttered over them.
From the same link
Although a significant proportion of sheep and beef is slaughtered according to halal requirements
Nowhere does it say all relevant meat is halal.
Marks and Spencers are telling their staff to inform their customers that all New Zealand lamb ‘has been blessed’.
Would it be blessed by a rabbi? That would be interesting.
So who is telling the truth then? The people who represent NZ farmers or M&S?
Could it be that M&S have found it more profitable to say that someone has muttered some Arabic over a lamb chop than not?
All animals are stunned including those which get the Halal treatment. I’m not one for protecting the RoP by any stretch of the imagination.
The sort of thing which Islam Not BBC (INBBC) is likely to condone, and not expose?:-
“UK Muslim leader: Muslims should humiliate Christians so they’ll convert to Islam”
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/05/uk-muslim-leader-muslims-should-humiliate-christians-so-theyll-convert-to-islam#comments
“British meat being sold is now Halal through torture of animals, infused with prayers to Allah, before packaged and sold to non-Muslims”
https://themuslimissue.wordpress.com/2014/05/08/british-meat-in-stores-are-now-halal-from-torture-of-animals-infused-with-prayers-to-allah-before-packaged-and-sold-to-non-muslims/
“My compulsory halal pizza is hard to swallow”
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/05/my-compulsory-halal-pizza-is-hard-to-swallow
David Selbourne starts from the wrong place when he asks ‘ where is the old left’s centuries-long espousal of free speech and free thought’. It never existed! The left only ever want the freedom to spout their lies. Everyone else has to shut up or else.
Most Muslims seem more than happy to go to McDonalds and eat products like the ‘fillet of Fish’ with fries. They avoid the foods which are not Halal and fit around with most people.
Yet again however we have the Fascists pandering to the more extreme elements because they shout loudly and make threatening noises.
Some of these will not even eat halal food from an outlet which has prepared non halal food in the past, never mind preparing both.
Subway will not be Halal compliant until they clear out all the kitchen equipment and replace it with new, after all the gastronorm the halal meat is stored in might once have stored pork products, and no matter how many times it’s washed, it is never considered clean enough!
Worse than that the pressure these nutters place on Muslims who might like to experience a little ‘Western’ living, means that they cannot. The fascists support this too.
It looks to me that outlets like subway will have shot themselves in the foot, with many people no longer using it, and most Muslims avoiding it as well!
Halal is not enough for many Muslims even if they say it’s what they want!
‘Never considered clean enough’ – quite ironic really.
‘Never considered clean enough’ – quite ironic really.
Matt cartoon,
‘Telegraph'(£)-
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/matt/
‘Telegraph’ editorial (£):-
“Supermarkets must identify halal meat.
An assumption is being made that since the majority of the population has no specified religious dietary requirements, it does not matter how meat is prepared.” http://www.telegraph.co.uk/foodanddrink/foodanddrinknews/10816579/Supermarkets-must-identify-halal-meat.html
“Now halal sneaks into our schools: Parents angered by move by councils to ban pork sausages and bacon and replace them with ritually-slaughtered meat.
“Hundreds of schools have banned pork – such as sausages and bacon.
“Families of other faiths and none have been angered and upset by move.
“Most cases halal meat served in schools comes from pre-stunned animals.”
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2623860/Now-halal-sneaks-schools-Parents-angered-councils-ban-pork-sausages-bacon-replace-ritually-slaughtered-meat.html#ixzz31DaRiKoB
My local supermarket in France has a cabinet which is marked halal. I accidentally dropped a packet of pork sausages in it. However, I am relieved to know that Islamic scholars point out that anyone who consumes products from this cabinet will not go straight to hell. This could be a problem with labeling. People might put food back on the wrong shelves…know what I mean?
It is quite simple to me: The physical welfare rights (method of slaughter) of animals should be regarded as more important than the mental (religious) welfare rights of people.
Halal and kosher slaughter is immoral and should be made illegal for everyone.
Neil, I agree. But Article 9 of the European convention on human rights places religious freedom over animal welfare.
Nigel, get us out.
Correct, Halal and Kosher methods of slaughter should be outlawed in this country, and if the wretched muslims want it, then they can pay for it to be done elsewhere in the world.
Kosher slaughter is not immoral and Jews have always claimed it causes less distress to the animal than other means. Scientific confirmation of this not clear either way although there is enough to make the blanket statement that puts religious rights over animal rights hard to sustain.
Similarly, there are studies that pre-slaughter stunning is actually much less humane. As said the scientific jury is out.
Surely the question of whether non Muslims should be forced to eat Halal meat (there is no Jewish equivalent of this situation) is a separate issue from whether the method is more or less humane?
see here is the thing about this halal meat,i feel the same disgust and upset for religious and cultural reasons at eating halal meat without not knowing i am eating this meat the same way as muslims feel upset and disgusted when they find that they have eaten meat that had pork in it without them knowing it,that sounds fair innit,but not to be the bbc and radio 5 live ,there politacaly correct islamophile presenters have tried to suggest that those who object to halal meat must have some islamaphobic agenda which is a load of you know what, but the bottem line is england is a christian country goverened by christian laws simple as that,this drip drip islamic sharia law by the backdoor into are institutions whether they be schools or food outlets is a most worrying development in recents years,those non muslims like me and you who choose not to eat halal meat should be treated with the same sensitivity the same way as muslims are who object to eating pork.thats that.
It`s not only meat that is getting the unwanted “Islamic Benediction” either.
Just heard a bit of More or Less on Radio 4-the topic was “maths and Brazil”!
Yet what does Tim Harford start with?…yes folks , that Islam Brazil connection.
Turns out some Brazilian writer mentions 1001 Arabian Nights in one of his books( well, the numerical equivalent)…and the Muslim vizier and his soon -to -be 16 year old bride( a granny grabber obviously!) turn out to know that 16×16=256…and 257 is a prime number!
Well, I`ll be…and we get the Islam-Brazil connection.
Can these dhimmi keep the propagation of Islam out of just ONE programme of theirs…or is this the way it`s going to be from now on.
The BBC needs to be made haramic!
to think i have been buying and eating halal meat without knowing it makes me feel physically sick
Interesting peice from ‘islamaphobic’ Mail
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2623879/We-Muslims-appalled-sale-halal-meat-stealth.html
Now if the BBC gave some time to rational Muslim voices rather than constantly sucking up to fanatics there might be less ‘islamaphobia’ about . You would think they would want that wouldn’t you?
That is a very sensible article, very cogent. I bet he gets some stick for it from the usual suspects.
I remember the outrage at the movement of sheep in confined space in lorries. All manner of animal rights agit prop pricks were out on the streets grandmas crying . Now poor larry the lamb getting his juglier (sic?) slashed and bled out is culture affirmation . And to think they want to ban smoking in front of your grandma !
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2586758/I-fascist-admired-Sir-Oswald-Mosely-Bizarre-claims-new-Newsnight-reporter-denies-dangerous-leftie.html….harriet harman,the bbc and fascism
I object very strongly to having any religious incantation or mumbo jumbo uttered over my food. I now find I’ve got this whether I like it or not.
I’ll promptly take ones rss while i cannot to discover ones e-mail membership weblink or e-newsletter service. Perform you have almost any? Generously enable myself understand making sure that I could join. Thank you.
I wonder, if the situation was reversed and Christians required their meat to be slaughtered in a religious way, would Muslims be prepared to eat it, I think not.
The BBC don’t mention that another requirement of Halal meat is that the animals are slaughtered by a Muslim.
Of course, if I were to petition Tesco to ensure all their meat was slaughtered by Christians only – or I would refuse to buy or eat it or allow any school to use it – then I would be a terrible racist.