If You Can Have A ‘Just’ Terrorism Why Can’t You Have A ‘Just’ Torture?


The BBC seems fatally drawn to outspoken, controversial and ultimately, mistaken, flawed characters, otherwise known as charlattans, whom they can rely upon either to make headlines and help them chase ratings, ala Russell Brand, or to ensure the schedules are filled with left wing drudgery ala Owen Jones or Giles Fraser.

Giles Fraser, that turbulent priest with inclinations towards the radical, has some interesting thoughts.  Not all of them thought out perhaps.

But still, the BBC seems to think he has something important to say so much of the time.

He is of course, being a Christian, tolerant of the enemy religion…Islam.  However he is not tolerant of those who would criticise Islam…

Islamophobia is the moral blind spot of modern Britain

The dinner party bigot’s attack on Islam as a creed can all too easily become an excuse for an attack upon an ethnic group


Yep…not only are you a bigot for criticisng Islam but you are using it as a covert means to attack a particular race…not sure which as there are so many different races who are Muslims…and of course he forgets to mention Sikhophobia and Hinduophobia and Whirling Dervishophobia and so on…all practised mainly by people of a non-white persuasion….so why aren’t these bigoted, secret racists denouncing those religions as well around the dinner table?


People like Fraser like to tell the lie that Islam is the religion of peace, that Islam means peace, that Islam wasn’t spread by the sword.

However when it comes to Christianity he is more open about the connection between religion, fanatics and violence…..

The English, of course, have always been a little bit awkward when it comes to full-throttle Christianity…It wasn’t always this way. Thousands were butchered during the Civil War in the name of their different understandings of God – probably the last flowering of popular religious fundamentalism in England.

When religious ideology got as toxic as it did, it was an act of genius to redefine religion as being primarily about pastoral care. From the 18th Century onwards, Christianity ceased to be about pike-toting revolutionaries hoping to rebuild Jerusalem in here in England.
Instead, through the Church of England, it increasingly became a David Cameron-type faith: the religion of good deeds.
It served the English well. It was dignified, socially useful and largely undemanding. The big society in action.


Fraser admits religion can inspire violence…even Christianity, a religion in which there are no exhortations to conquer the world or to kill your enemy.

Religion had to be neutered in order for a peaceful, tolerant society to blossom.

However Fraser hankers after the old school  hellfire and damnation interpretation of the Bible….

….. it is offensive and scandalous stuff. It means being brave, taking risks, standing up to wrong, even when – and this is bound to happen – it is personally distressing for us to do
that. It means real belief and absolute commitment. It is so much more than a brief nod to Sunday school truisms.


‘real belief and absolute commitment’….dangerous, foolish stuff….if he’s advocating this for Christians how can he deny the same to Muslims or any other religion or belief such as Fascism or Communism?  It would be a nation at war with itself.

Real belief is nothing less than fundamentalism, extremism, oppressive institutionalised tyranny.

Real belief is bigotry of the purest kind…‘I am right, you are wrong…and so you are going to hell…and I might just help to speed you on your way there.’


Fraser expands on his desire for hellfire on earth with the thought that terrorism might have his divine sanction if in a ‘just’ cause….curious when he admitted above that religion had become toxic and led to thousands being brutally butchered in the name of God and yet he now justifies it……

If we can have just war, why not just terrorism?

I was criticised for suggesting there could be a moral right of resistance to oppression but Christianity has thought a great deal about the idea of just resistance.

The weird thing about this is that Christianity has thought a great deal about the idea of just resistance. The Reformation, for instance, saw a flurry of moral justifications for resistance to the state, when that state is seeking to impose on its subjects its own particular understanding of religious faith. In 1574, for example, Theodore Beza published his The Right of Magistrates in which he affirmed the right of resistance – and violent resistance in the final instance – to state tyranny.

Ah…there’s that Christian inspired violence again….‘Christianity has thought a great deal about the idea of just resistance.’  I wonder if Islam has ‘thought a great deal about the idea of just resistance’?


However Fraser isn’t keen on ‘Just’ Torture, even if it were the kind that might save lives whilst not killing the person being tortured, merely being ‘enhanced interrogation’.

It was called “tortura del agua” by the Spanish Inquisition. The Nazis used it, as did the Japanese and the Vietcong. We now call it waterboarding, and all reasonable people would also call it torture. That is, except — because it is a technique now widely practised by the CIA, and because the United States wants to claim that it does not torture prisoners — that the current US administration calls it an “enhanced interrogation technique”. Once again, Mr Bush’s dodgy dictionary finds new ways to lie.

This is what makes the war on terror such a well of moral evil.
I love the United States, but its moral conscience has been diseased by the war on terror. It is now time for American churches to speak out more clearly.


So…torture, however much it might save lives, is a ‘well of moral evil’ that is condoned and practised by minds diseased by the war on terror….but terrorism that deliberately, knowingly and cold bloodedly kills thousands, men, women and children, at a stroke, is a ‘just’ terrorism if in a morally justifiable cause.

So let’s get Fraser right…religion can be a toxic, brutal, murderous tyranny and yet anyone who dares link Islam to the violent exhortations and ‘racism’ in the Koran is an Islamophobe?

Waterboarding, stress positions, shouting at prisoners and other intensive interrogation techniques are morally evil but butchering the Fogel family, hacking off a baby’s head, is a ‘just’ terrorism?

Fraser is a classic example of Doublethink…when you can hold two opposing and contradictory views and yet believe totally in both of them….

To tell deliberate lies while genuinely believing in them, to forget any fact that has become inconvenient, and then, when it becomes necessary again, to draw it back from oblivion for just so long as it is needed, to deny the existence of objective reality and all the while to take account of the reality which one denies—all this is indispensably necessary. Even in using the word doublethink it is necessary to exercise doublethink. For by using the word one admits that one is tampering with reality; by a fresh act of doublethink one erases this knowledge; and so on indefinitely, with the lie always one leap ahead of the truth.


The BBC must adore little Fraser…pro-Muslim, anti-Bush, anti the war on terror, anti-interrogation, anti-capitalism, anti-Islamophobia……he could have a channel all to himself….a circus dog indeed, all too happy to jump through the hoops, peddling the codswallop,  and needing no commands to do so.

Shame he’s such a hypocrite, such an advocate of violence, intolerance and religious fanaticism.







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29 Responses to If You Can Have A ‘Just’ Terrorism Why Can’t You Have A ‘Just’ Torture?

  1. DownBoy says:

    At what point do you suppose Giles and all the other useful fools would take Muslim extremist actions seriously for what they are?
    At the point of a large knife to their own necks perhaps?


    • ShropshireLad says:

      Giles Fraser is not a PRIEST, he is a VICAR. Why do all these left-wing CofE Clergy suddenly want to be known as “priests”, a title specific to the Catholic church, which they all despise?


    • SAB says:

      Sorry, accidentally hit ‘report comment’- apologies.


      • noggin says:

        Islamophobia is the moral blind spot of modern Britain
        The dinner party bigot’s attack on Islam as a creed can all too easily become an excuse for an attack upon an ethnic group … ooer! pardon me all over the place

        The dinner party bigot eh 😀
        oops! that just reminded me 😀 (excuse the plates and clinking glasses) this is classic Steyn


  2. RJ says:

    The CofE really lost the plot in 1984 when David Jenkins was made Bishop of Durham. Even God had a sense of humour failure on that one and struck York Minster with lightening – causing a large fire.

    Jenkins didn’t hold back from expressing his political views and was also one of the first CofE clergymen to participate in the blessing of a homosexual civil partnership. Pretty much made for the BBC.


    • Merched Becca says:

      The CofE need to have a good read of the New Testament of the Holy Bible.
      Simples !


  3. stuart says:

    i dont care anymore of these jihadist bastard child raping mass murdering scum.pull there toenails out,cut off there ears,burn there balls off to stop them raping children iraq and syria,fuck you isis scum.just fuck you cowards,enough is enough of these islamo nazi vermin.


  4. Vector Curl says:

    I find the liberal fools who attempt to whitewash Islam even more infuriating than the boneheaded, militant adherents of this disruptive cult of death. At least you can have a good laugh (at a safe distance, of course) at the Pythonesque ludicrousness of the latter.


  5. Mat says:

    Given that millions of Christians are not white or western and that millions of Catholics are also non white or western attacks on them should also carry the same ‘closet racist ‘ tags as those Piles think are racists on Islam !


  6. john in cheshire says:

    I suppose that according to Mr Fraser’s understanding, holding Terry Waite and all the other innocent non-muslims captive for years, invading embassies and holding the staff prisoner for over a year, killing ambassadors, hijacking planes and killing the passengers, hijacking cruise ships and murdering disabled passengers and the list of muslim atrocities just goes on and on, is all justified because it’s what we horrible people in civilised West deserve for being better at organising ourselves and not accepting a subsistence existence as evidenced in most of the muslim world. These people have been on God’s earth for as long as we have so it’s about time they examined themselves to find the causes of their lack of progress rather than blaming everyone else.


  7. Jerry Fletcher says:

    Let’s have no more of this Giles fella because Alan doesn’t agree with him. Sorted.

    And to quote Orwell to make your point. Priceless irony.


    • John Anderson says:

      No – lets have far far less of this Giles fellow because he is a blithering idiot, because we have enough leftie tosh on the BBC already.


  8. A Teddy called Moh says:

    The followers of the religion of peace imprisoned the teacher who named me and literally tried to knock the stuffing out of me 🙁

    If criticising Islam for their followers deeds is being a bigot, then I suppose it’s off to Rochdale with me.


  9. deegee says:

    Since the end of WWII about 5 million Muslims have died from wars 95% at the hands of other Muslims.


  10. George R says:

    The unnamed ISLAMIC JIHAD murder in OTTAWA-

    INBBC, self-censoring any investigative instincts, merely goes along with the official pronouncement-

    “Canada gunman made video showing ‘ideological and political motives.'”


    Whereas, Robert Spencer, of ‘Jihadwatch’ has-

    “Canada gunman prepared video confirming it was planned jihad attack”

    [Opening excerpt]-

    “’Royal Canadian Mounted Police Commissioner Bob Paulson said in a statement they have ‘persuasive evidence that Michael Zehaf-Bibeau’s attack was driven by ideological and political motives.’” That is, jihad — but even when confronted with clear evidence that this was a jihad attack, Paulson still cannot call it what it was. And Paulson is not singular in this, of course. He is just a minor functionary speaking the way he was trained to: when it comes to jihad terror, call it anything else you can possibly call it, anything so as to distract attention from what it really is.”



  11. George R says:

    Talking about ‘terror’, Pamela Geller has-




  12. George R says:

    Islamic jihadists and Portsmouth-

    -‘Guardian’ political line, similar to BBC-NUJ endorsed one:
    -blame EDL, which gets no right of reply.

    “Portsmouth under strain after death of fourth jihadi from city.
    Bangladeshi community members express surprise and anguish as young men go to Syria, never to come home.”

    By Robert Booth.



    • ROBERT BROWN says:

      Portsmouth under strain?……i think you will find that it is muslims themselves, their very presence that is the strain…..and one the indigenous white population could well do without.


  13. George R says:

    BBC-NUJ’s uses word “teacher,” censors word ‘Muslim’-

    “Teacher Jamshed Javeed admits Syria terror offences”



    • George R says:

      “British science teacher who plotted to go to Syria to fight with ISIS jihadis was stopped by his family who confiscated his passport – then arrested when he got a replacement to try again.
      “Jamshed Javeed, 30, taught children at Sharples High School in Bolton.
      Worried family confiscated his passport and belongings before his arrest.
      “He plotted to fight with rebels trying to overthrow al Assad in Syria .
      “Javeed’s brother Mohammad Azzam is missing and presumed dead in Syria .
      “Teacher claims that MI5 repeatedly approached him and his family last year.”

      Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2809370/British-science-teacher-admits-two-Syria-related-terror-offences.html#ixzz3HMLKaLyW


  14. George R says:

    From Manchester (above) to London, and the Islamisation of England intensifies-

    “Five remanded over UK ‘terror plot'”



  15. George R says:

    Nigeria: Boko Haram’s Islamic jihad atrocities.

    Two contrastring reports:-

    1.) ‘Daily Mail,’

    2.) a censored, euphemistic ‘report’ via INBBC’s Islamic Radio Hausa of Nigeria:-
    the propaganda paid for by British licencepayers.

    ‘Daily Mail’-
    “Torture, rape, forced marriage… and sent to fight on the front line:
    Survivors reveal the horrific fate of teenage girls kidnapped
    by Islamic extremists Boko Haram .
    “Dozens of former hostages describe ordeal in report by human rights group.
    “Girl, 15, says she was ‘raped every night’ after being forced to marry fighter.
    “Another captive, 19, tells how she was made to hold bullets during firefight.
    “Ordered to behead captive but ‘I was shaking with horror and couldn’t do it.’
    “Islamists have seized 30 more children despite government claims of truce.
    “-Over 500 women and children have been by captured by group since 2009.”

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2809503/Survivors-reveal-horrific-fate-teenage-girls-kidnapped-Islamic-extremists-Boko-Haram.html#ixzz3HMjJpt49

    INBBC’s Islamic Radio Hausa censored ‘report’-

    “Nigeria’s Boko Haram ‘sends girls to front line'”



  16. JMarsh says:

    Giles Fraser personifies self-hatred.