I saw this headline in the Independent…..
This is the terrifying price we pay for free speech in a liberal democracy
……..and thought no, that’s bollocks.
The savage murder of twelve people is not the price for freedom of speech it’s the price of an extraordinarily dangerous experiment with immigration that the ‘elite’ has been playing whilst all the time lying to us.
In 2009 the Guardian, of all papers, published this:
Europe’s risky experiment
In a week in which the European election results have shown the potency of the anti-immigrant vote in many countries, including Britain, Christopher Caldwell’s contention that immigration has not only changed Europe but revolutionised it has a topical plausibility. Immigration, he says, and above all Muslim immigration, has planted in the heart of a weak and confused civilisation communities, rapidly growing in number, that have already changed Europe to suit their needs and beliefs. And the chances are, he insists, that in the future we will bend to their will rather than that they will bend to ours.
The truth is that immigration was not inevitable on the scale on which it took place, and that its effects have ranged from the pleasing – more ethnic food – to the positive – more cultural diversity – to the truly terrible – race riots, social tension, terrorist attacks.
When the Danish cartoons furore was at its height, newspapers the length and breadth of Europe upheld the right of free speech – yet the vast majority of them somehow neglected to reprint the offending sketches. The code insists, says Caldwell, that Islam must always be defined as a peaceful religion, yet ignores the way in which Muslim leaders in Europe lay down red lines that the non-Muslim majority is not supposed to cross. Once Muslim majorities emerge in certain towns and areas, Muslims will demand the right to live not only differently, but also separately, and Europe will lose control, Caldwell believes, of significant chunks of its territory.
He is right to argue that immigration on the scale that Europe has experienced constitutes a risky experiment to which we need not have submitted ourselves, and of which the final result is not yet clear. He is right that we frequently talk about it in stupid and dishonest ways. If his book sharpens a so far sluggish debate, it will have served an important purpose.
In 2009 then they were hoping that the debate about this ‘risky experiment’ and its consequences would have developed and taken on these important issues. Clearly that didn’t happen…..the results of which are being played out on the streets of Europe ever more frequently, ever more bloodily.
Unless politicians and the Media, especially the dominant BBC, start to challenge the false narrative that the West is to blame for all the ills in the Middle East, that our foreign policy is to blame for terrorism across the world, then there is no hope of dealing with the threats posed by an ideology that feeds off such a narrative despite it being absolutely untrue….after all the people of Iraq, Syria and Afghanistan view the Jihadists as foreigners themselves…..so straight away there is a conflict with Muslim (Usually Pakistani) assertions that British foreign policy is the problem when they are the foreigners themselves invading and destroying those countries in an attempt to create their Islamic paradise on earth.
We keep hearing that the narrative must change…..so change it. And then start looking at immigration and major issues such as the importation of alien and extreme ideologies that seriously conflict with our values and beliefs long nurtured and defended over the course of two thousand years and not to be carelessly thrown away by a weak and submissive elite unwilling to stand up for their own beliefs whilst at the same time unwilling to bring themselves to challenge beliefs diametrically opposed to theirs however much that will lead to the destruction of their society and everything they presumably hold dear.
“The Charlie Hebdo Jihad Massacre: Time to Stand for Free Speech”
By Robert Spencer.
http://www.frontpagemag.com/2015/robert-spencer/the-charlie-hebdo-jihad-massacre-time-to-stand-for-free-speech/
Among all INBBC’s appeasement of Islam, there is one useful article today-
“Viewpoint: The roots of the battle for free speech”
By Tom Holland.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-30714702
we live in a cowardice nation,with cowardice politicians and a cowardice media who are bending over backwards to dismiss the link betreen islamic jihadi extremism and the teachings of the koran and the hadiith, i mean,these muslims terrorists were not shouting god save the french republic yesterday when they was pumping bullets into there victims,they was screaming allahu akbar,what has that got to do with religion the politacaly correct idiots will say because after all islam is such a peace loving religion,go figure that out cameron and co.look,all day on radio 5 live they have changed the narrative from 12 victims of muslim terrorism in france into muslim victimhood and a backlash,what a load of tripe you lot a radio 5 live today,you are less concerned about the victims of islamic terrorism and more concerned about pandering to the muslim victimhood and grievance industry spun by the bbc and radio 5 live,yes are ears will be bursting with the quotes that islam is a religion of peace starting with question time on bbc 1 tonight,get your sicks bags out i say.
The Multicultural blimp will be flying high over Question Time tonight…
The BBC inadvertently published a Charlie Hebdo Mohammed cover. It was yanked in nothing flat, but not before an enterprising reader screen capped it. Here it is:
http://vladtepesblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/bbc-toon-pre-blur.jpg
The BBC have published another Charlie Hebdo cover, with a comedy Hasidic Jew on it – no problem there…
Like many of you, i have just been watching the bbc news at six..
For up to 7 minutes they became the usual predictive apologists for the Islamic terrorists that committed the recent murderous atrocities in paris.
They sniffed out an old neighbour, who said that they were brothers were sweet lads that he knew and thought that they would never hurt a fly. They went further on into the story to say that the two brothers were brought up in a care home in northeastern france. That they were vulnerable, and were radicalized, failed by the system, and so on, and so on.
The bbc news is absolutely disgusting! Its not fit for purpose.
There needs to be a serious public debate about the bbc newsroom, and its far left wing bias, and the sooner the better. Maybe even organized public protests come to mind.
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/former-birmingham-police-officer-convicted-8401846..worrying
Before we went into Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya and Syria thousands of Muslims marched on the streets of the UK and screamed not in our name.
Every time Israel fights back agaisnt Islamic terrorism there are thousands of Muslims on the street demanding action
Every-time the EDL march thousands of Muslims will protest
Yet
When Muslims carried out :
9/11
Madrid
London
India
Bali
Sydney
Glasgow airport
Islamic rape gangs
Murdered a soldier in London
and the rest
I’ve yet to see Muslims on mass marching down the street screaming not in our name, instead all we hear is:
“They were not Muslims”
That tells me all I need to know. Funny enough as an apostate from the gay death cult, I’ve known that salient fact for years, and liberals everywhere told me it was I who was wrong.
Jon Snow has just done a hatchet job on Geert Wilders on C4 news, arsehole tried to tie him and Farage together at the end.
Then they whine about politicians trying to make political points!!!
What a wanker.
Lol ! I watched it. Snow tried to do a hatchet job on geert wilders, and also tried to handcuff him together with farage. But somehow wilders saw it comming, and in the end snow was made to look the predictable wanker that he is.
The same programme had ex-BBC phlegm-flambee Matt Frei on.
In Paris, of course.
This was his take on any passing French hack or talking head…all liberals, but for one UMP bloke who clearly terrified him…what with talk of the French needing to fight back.
1,How come the cops haven`t caught these alleged gunmen?…what on earth could they be doing…don`t they care?…are they crap?
2, Won`t this only help bloody Le Pen and the FN…how can THAT be possible? And what are you French types going to do about it?
3. Can ANY harsh words be worth the risk of Islamophobia at this delicate stage?….things going so well and all…why risk it Jacques?
4. This will surely play into the hands of marine Le Pen(see No2)…but will happen WITHOUT the FN either doing or saying a dickie-oiseau!
So even if Marine says nowt-she`s already guilty of exploiting the murders-and judged by Frei to be not only the cause, but the beneficiary o these killings as she wipes her hands on the shrouds of those who died.
No wonder even the likes of Henri-Levy were nonplussed…our liberal Islam doyleys like Frei simply will never cease in dragging the lake to find UKIP or FN responsible for whatever a Muslim does.
Guilty if they say anything-even guiltier if they don`t. Focal Alice in Wonderlanders, the likes of Frei and other BBC chipped nonces of Belmarsh Mosquet`eers.
I mean-Channel 4 News and the BBC would NEVER exploit the death of thirteen French people,by refusing to know the butchers as anything other than “French”…when I`d have thought the Venn diagram points to psychopathic evil Islamists as being the cancer we really need to fight right now.
Frei, Crick and Mardell…yes, well worth the brioches lardy buffets that we provide them…boy, we`re thick!
Chris h. Was my hearing wrong, or did that prick snow happen to say that until the french government can prove otherwise, then it will go down as a ‘Lone Wolf’ attack? Typical excusisam from the left.
Errr! Emm! Wasn’t there3 terrorists?
“Lone Wolf” eh?
Isn`t it typical of the left that they like to think that this would comfort normal human beings?
Had I lost a kid or a parent, partner or friend….would I really be expected to be glad that the murdering Muslim didn`t have a club or a handbook, a visa stamp or training camp certification?
Yet the liberal media seem to think that dying by one lone wolfs Stanley is better than the thick cynical fockals themselves having to `fess up to their blind slavering devotion to all things edgy and Islamic.
In other words-the dead can be sacrificed one by one at Islams shrine…as long as they themselves don`t have to think about Allahs web that they`ve been creating and condoning, excusing and using for years now.
They shafted Rushdie…and now they`re already pissing over what`s left of Hebdos offices, with their craven drooling lick spitoon approach to what happened…blame their fellow hacks, run away and play dress up in the mosque.
Utter scum…maybe Channel 4 deserves its day on Tower Hill even more than the BBC at times like these.
Whether a lone wolf or Trojan Horse…whether Heydrich hanged you or the Nazis did….this is still Islam-Muslims using the Koran-and the liberal media excusing all and everything that they do to the rest of us-and those yet to come.
It’s amazing how often the phrase ‘lone wolf’ is now occurring.
Perhaps they hunt in packs of 2 or 3 now – and maybe 4 -10 later this year.
The bBC does Muslims can only be victims, attacks UKIP as only the bBC can:
Paris shooting: Nick Clegg ‘dismayed’ at Farage comments
Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg has accused Nigel Farage of trying to “make political points” after the shootings in Paris which killed 12 people. The UKIP leader said the attack by suspected Islamists on satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo on Wednesday was “truly horrific”. He added, on Channel 4 News, it raised questions about what he called a “gross policy of multiculturalism”.
The thing about UKIP, is they ask questions which none of the rest are willing to ask, which is why Farage then said this:
“Mr Farage said there was a “very strong argument” that the events were a result of “a fifth column” which he said lived in Paris and London.”
Out of order?, maybe, but hang on , the very people complaining about UKIP are the very ones who say the very same thing about UKIP. So how many people have said this and how many heard others ask the very same question this morning?
The bBC then bring out a raft of Politicians to question Farages comments , do you think in an election year they are really concerned about what NF has to say, or do they see the opportunity to grab that Islamic vote, which may help them win the election. Maybe there lies the rationality behind what Clegg came out with next:
“The Lib Dem leader said that if the attackers did turn out to be Islamist extremists, “law-abiding British Muslims” were the “greatest antidote to the perversion of Islam”.
Really, Muslims constitute 4.7% of the British population yet represent 14% of the prison population (As of march 2014) In London the area of the UK with the largest Islamic population that figures rises to 27%
While the left (Looking at the bBC here_ love to scream out how under-represented Ethnics are in the UK, the one area where they do really well and the left remain silent. An if you are a liberal arsehole you talk shite about law abiding Muslims.
Yeah Clegg yer daft bat, yer mean like this lslamic policeman
Finally before some liberal tries to take me to task, the bBC reported that 170000 girls are victims of FGM in the UK, that means around 340,000 parents are guilty of breaking the law in the UK. Thats over 1/4 million. out of a population of around 2.7 million,
While I admit they are plenty of law abiding Muslims, the fact remains their good work is undone by all the criminals within their ranks. I mean you only have to look at the high percentage of crooked lords and MPS who are Islamic
Yet more on Channel 4.
Is it fair to say that Cordelia Lynch would NOT have been poncing about scented gardens of Paris in a fetching hijab, had Muslims NOT killed people only 36 hours ago?
In other words-to quote Douglas Murray-hasn`t Islam already claimed yet another victory in its efforts to impose Sharia blasphemy laws upon the West?
A future BBC Religious Affairs poppet-and prophet perhaps for Islam-is born.
And Snow finishes off his shitshow with an attack on a Swedish bloke nearly killed for drawing cartoons in Sweden…his French Muslim shill tells him he should not be inflaming her like , so fair dos Sven!
Another Channel 4 News dunghill is plopped out of the medias fundament…Bin Ladens videos were not much more inflammatory than most of our liberal current affairs slurry…and this crap can easliy now be sent to Ahmed back home-and encourage the clan further to take us on…if that`s the Wests response…fockal!
No hope of bribe can hope to twist
Thank God, the British journalist
But when you see what s/he will do
Unbribed, you`ll have no reason to…
Written years ago-truer now than ever…just a few rials too these days!
Just saw a great “mu***ms are victims, too” piece on BBC News. Straight out of the top drawer, by Feargal Keane. Well done. No, really.
Did you know that one of the savages who just slaughtered twelve people is “a quiet man, who’s very helpful with the disabled”? How
human he now appears to me! I’ll have to revise my opinion…
Wonderful!
I saw that report too, unbelievable how they try to humanise these terrorists
Yes, and Hitler was very kind to dogs, and no doubt Pol Pot simply adored his granny. They really are too pathetic for words.
Hitler was very kind to his Alsatian, Blondie, until he made him take a cyanide capsule in the bunker.
Honestly – did he think Blondie would talk, or something?
Blondie was a bitch, and dont forget about poor Wolf, one of her puppies that that evil bastard killed as well. Everyone seems to forget about poor Wolf. Rest in peace little fella
He/she – whatever. It’s a dog…
did poor old wolfie get the glass pill too? Never heard of him.
the biggest hypocrisy in islam about the depiction of pictures of the prophet mohammed( peace be upon him) have to say that to show respect to the prophet is this,at mecca the holy shrine for muslims in saudi arabia they depict pictures of the prophet mohammed(peace be upon him),so when you hear muslims say it is hurtfull and upsetting for pictures of the prophet mohammed(peace be upon hm) to be depicted point out to them at mecca there plenty of pictures depicting the prophet mohammed(peace be upon him)at there holy shrine in mecca,so, as a non muslm, i done my research today about mecca,so if i know that why as a muslim do you not know that,.
Likewise, sharia law says halal food is not obligatory.
“We must have halal” is another myth pedalled by mu***ms and their apologists alike.
Indeed, I never realised that Wiki had done a page on images of Mohammed.
It’s quite instructive how many there were circulating in their own lands until recent times without getting their knickers in a twist. What changed ?
I see that already the Left are now emphasising the Islamaphobia and anti-Muslim backlash. I despair; I was studying tonight in the living room and had on BBC 24 and much of the time was taken up with lefty intellectuals coming out with the usual crap that young Muslims are turning to radical Islam because we aren’t helping them integrate. F**king rubbish and sopping wet dhimmi appeasement. The BBC are the enemy!
The quislings have been working the airwaves overtime, haven’t they?
“Paris massacre is proof of Islamist threat to Europe,
says LEO MCKINSTRY.
“EUROPE is staring into an abyss of oppression, violence and fear.”
http://www.express.co.uk/comment/columnists/leo-mckinstry/550724/Leo-McKinstry-Paris-massacre-Islamist-threat-Europe
What a great article George. Brilliant stuff… it’s almost as if he reads this excellent and insightful blog 🙂
Yes, but did you see the piece by Frederick Forsyth in the same paper, saying the killers aren’t real m***lims?
Pathetic dhimmi…
BBC news obsessed with a ‘backlash’ against Muslims and lots of talk about unity. Their role is to report the news, not further a particular agenda.
Do you think there should be limits to free speech?
The BBC want to know, apparently (but only if you’re a French muslim or other concerned citizen – which presumably is doublespeak for ‘leftie liberal’).
The lovely Ms Golysheva also wants to speak with you if you think that people supporting Israel should kill themselves:
https://twitter.com/wallaceme/status/553317510897233921/photo/1
Maybe she’s just trying to understand their motivations?
Plus there’s always the chance of further cuisine tips.
A tweet from Martin Lewis:
“There’s confusion about bbc producers guidelines being discussed. It’ standard operating procedure, overturnable with permission #bbcqt”
So… the BBC tells the BBC what is acceptable or not, unless the BBC gives itself permission to ‘overturn’ it?
Uh-huh.
Bravo to Andrew Neale for his opening statement tonight, made me laugh, probably pissed off those murderous twats holed up in a cold French forest if they can watch el beeb on their iPads.
And question time was quite good, it seems to be getting better at the moment, only one stooge in the audience at the end and he was owned as a labour councillor by the rest of the audience laughing at him, Pratt.
All we have to do is to keep our own counsel and watch the liberal commentators and politicians destroy themselves and their long hegemony over us.
They have no arguments and their words are just that- mere vapid mouthings.
Do they really think we are going to believe them?
There was nothing in modern liberalism. It was an illusion and reality is ending it.
For the sake of our grandchildren these people must leave power now . Only then can harmony and reality be restored.
BBC News Website:
Front Page. 5 articles on NHS Failings:-
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-30735370
SKY News Website:
Front Page. 0 articles on NHS failings:-
http://news.sky.com/
Why five negative BBC articles on the NHS? And none by SKY?
I think we know the answer. Is it that the BBC is supporting Labour election policy of the Doomed NHS under the Tories?
Blatant Bias??
.
What will the Tory party do about it ?
Mohammed had the poet Uqba bin Abu Muayt assassinated in the year 624 because he wrote a poem that mocked the prophet. In other words, he was a sort of 7th Century Charlie Hebdo satirist. Moreover, Mohammed also had several other poets killed because he didn’t like what they wrote about him. Surely this is extremely relevant information that should be brought to the attention of the masses who need to understand how these Islamist barbarians can justify their repugnant actions. After all, they are just merely following the example of their wonderful prophet. Instead, we are constantly fed the lie that the slaughter of the Charlie Hebdo journalists has “nothing to do with real Islam”. In reality, it has everything to do with real Islam.
before we all climb aboard the outrage bus….put the concept of “Free speech” into perspective…..
12 people have been shot dead in the name of Islamic “anti freedom of speech”….and Europe is uniting…..”we are all Charlie Hebdo”
The MSM….politicians…political and satirical observers, bloggers, journalists….the same publications which filter out the letters B…N…P and all posts with them will not appear…Those same people who “Do not debate with Fascists”
France we are told holds freedom of speech dearly and the french and other Europeans are on the march to defend it…..
..The same France which arrests, detains, tries, prosecutes, jails/fines anyone for “denying a historical event”…
Free speech in France???? Ask Robert Faurrinson or Vincent Reynouard (google them) what they think of free speech in France….and what did “Charlie Hebdo” do when the rights to free speech, freedom of expression were taken away from these men, and many more like them?????
NOTHING…..it..and those who write for it sat back and never said a single word….as men were jailed…for expressing an opinion…..
…Go to Germany or Austria and try to deliver a speech to an invited audience like Irving did…and see “free speech in action”….
Here’s the irony…a Frenchman, Dutchman, German and a Pole walk into a coffee shop in Tehran, and speak about not believing a particular historical event……the punchline? nothing happens, they drink their coffee, exchange view..and leave…..
…The same people walk into a coffee shop in France, Holland, Germany, Poland and exchange the SAME opinions….
..The punchline…..all are arrested, tried, two are fine 15,000 euros, one is jailed for three years the other for five years…..
On…and controversial though Charlie Hebdo was…it too steered well clear of the subject which gets people jailed in France for not believing it!!!!
Sorry this is not a free speech issue, it’s the old shout of ‘fire in a cinema’ , Irving shouted ‘fire’, got what he deserved. We have another group of blackshirts in Europe today we do not need the last lot having their crimes thought of as fairy tales.
Sorry…yes it is, just because you do not want to hear the views of another person does not mean we all don’t, or just because you THINK it is not a free speech issue doesn’t mean it isn’t! Irving spoke his views to an audience by invitation only, giving an opinion based upon DECADES of research all over Europe…..he was like the examples in FRANCE excising free speech, but, easy to see which side of the fence you are on….”free speech ONLY when it meets with your approval”
Incidentally thanks to people like IRVING we now know that it was the Soviets who murdered 24,000 Poles at Kytan not the “Nazis”….but guess what……no-one wants justice for them!!!!
Oh one more thing, the Soviets finally admitted killing 24,000 unarmed prisoners in the kytan forest…..but since it was accepted in Nuremberg that the Germans did it….
…it is STILL a crime to say the Soviets did it in France..TODAY….even though they ADMIT IT!!!
Oh, the Red army had killed 15,000,000 people before Hitler was even elected!!!! But one can call oneself a Communist with complete impunity!
You have no idea of the concept of free speech as your post shows!!!!!
You need a chill pill old son, I know free speech, and I know a twat who has lost his marbles and starts doing a David Icke to fellow loons who will buy his bollocks to pay the mortgage. Don’t know about France but the murder of the poles has been know about here for at least the last 50 years, I remember the bbc doing a documentary about it as a child, the World at War covered it, there is a monument to it on Cannock Chase. Any decent history book on sale in smiths will tell about the mass murders of Stalin of his own people and everyone else’s he got his hands on. You sound like a sixth former just finding out what has been happening for the last 70 years, I KNOW personally what happened, my father went up the beech in Normandy on D-Day +3 and fought his way to Germany, he saw lots of things , and told me about the crimes of the SS and nazis. I have every idea of free speech and of liars using the concept for their own ends, in a further point I used to work with a pole who’s father was captured by Stalin in 1939, and his family all ended up in Siberia including him as a baby, I don’t need Irving or other nazi groupies thank you. message ends.
thanks for the advice, very much appreciated! please don’t take offence, but in all debates I have, and many others who take part in similar debates say the same thing…. That people will always introduce a family member….. In the hope that that is somehow a trump card…….. but unfortunately I have long since giving up believing such stories, since it is almost statistically impossible!furthermore it all trials forensic and scientific evidence trumps eye witness statement every time……… except, of course,
Nuremberg! (which tells its own story)
Don’t know how or why you introduced”David Ike”, I am aware of almost all the world’s revisionists read much of their works, I’ve never seen anything from this person you are stating. Almost all works I have read from professors, teachers, scientists chemists historians, perhaps you should go out a little more!
Anyway, since you seem to know a lot about Kytan, you will no doubt be aware of document USSR-54, submitted to the Nuremberg trials s in 1946! I’m sure at this very moment you are now googling it.
Anyway, briefly it was a detailed report by the Soviets into the massacre stating “”We find, in the Indictment, one of the most important criminal acts for which the major war criminals are responsible was the mass execution of Polish prisoners of war shot in the Katyn forest near Smolensk by the German fascist invaders.” “……..but then new t I’m sure you already know that………….
…….just as I am sure that you know that two of the eight members of the Soviet Katyn Commission were also members of the Soviet Auschwitz commission, they were Academician N. Burdenko and Metropolitan Nikolai………..
…………not too sure if there are any books on sale in WH Smith 1946 when the document was submitted and accepted at Nuremberg, could you help?
you are aware that many people who exercise doubts come from different races and religions, they are academics, Christians, Jews and Muslims,even atheists, but if you feel it strengthened your argument by dismissing everyone has a Nazi, please feel free to do so, always the sign of a weak argument!!!!
You still haven’t grassed the concept of free speech. Have you? Men who study a topic…… arrange a meeting for invited like-minded or curious guests who want simply to learn more, and decide for themselves.
These people are free to do so in many parts of the world…….., particularly the Middle East………., but to do so in European countries and in France in particular would see them arrested, fined and jailed..
But to you that appears to be all right, free speech for you appears only to be acceptable if it falls within your boundaries and definitions. When you google USSR 54. Try googling the word hypocrite too!
Do you mean the Katyn Massacre? I’ve never heard of the Kytan Massacre or are they alternative spellings?
That was a very important point, and one well worth making…..
Here click on the link
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=grammar+nazi&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=Z0uxVOOoC8_iaLPegqAI&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAQ&biw=1067&bih=703#imgdii=_&imgrc=VaidVzkBMlfCqM%253A%3BXrwC1k6TUEpDsM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.reshareit.com%252Fwp-content%252Fuploads%252FI-must-correct-you-anyway.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.reshareit.com%252Fthings-only-grammar-nazis-in-india-will-understand%252F%3B404%3B384
Not Pah…makes no attempt to comment of the actual topic itself……..facts…like kryptonite to the “Pah’s” of this world…..
Davis shoe; you sir are a problem to me. In all the time I have lurked, read and finally written on this site I have never come across one such as you. Full of your self belief, full of your self importance on a subject you obviously hold dear. You first ( and only) came to my attention with your recent championing of one David Irving, a one time decent historian who sadly went a bit off beam and because he could find no written orders from hitler, decided therefore hitler did not kill Jews and they never were murdered. To be honest, I am not really bothered what you, or Irving and friends believe, he is mad they are mad and if you go along with it, well, if it looks like a duck etc.
thank you for calling me a liar, if I could get hold of you I would hit you rather hard, my father Eric Ronald ***** born 12/12/192* was a member of the royal Engineers, he married my mother because he was fold he was on the first wave on D-Day, his good luck was the ship broke down in mid channel and did not land until day 3.
He fought until the end and crossed the Rhine. He saw first hand many SS and nazi crimes and although he did not talk about it much he told me as a young boy and man with an interest enough.
This is not the place,and quite frankly I do not give ****all what you believe or not.
You write nothing about the BBCs bias, the reason this site exists, but mearly harp on about Irving and his scribblings. I care nothing for him or because of your bloody rudeness to me and my late father to you. If you would give me a address I can contact you or a phone number I assure you you will hear from me, somehow I doubt it.
You are a troll, I refuse to talk to trolls because you are all sad buggers. Go back to your fantasy world sad little troll.
Oh dear……. It still appears that this person has still not grasped the concept of free speech! Perhaps you should follow your own advice and take a “chill pill”old boy!
I have very good reason for not believing what you said, that is not to say it is not true, I simply do not believe you. Now I have a right to believe what I want and what don’t want. Godwin famously said in Internet debates as the discussion grows, the chances of being compared to a Nazi reduced to zero. In debates on the Holocaust as the discussion grows, the chances of a person introducing a relative also reduce to zero. They like you somehow believe this introduction is a trump card when it is quite the opposite.
I note you will make absolutely no comment whatsoever on the facts that have now been put to you.
My original input on this debate was highlighting the hypocrisy of the alleged concept of free speech in France in particular. Look back at the posts I did not champion in any way David Irving. I used him as an example. He was asked his opinion in court as an expert witness in a trial in the 1980s. The question was put to him in all his research, had he ever come across a document signed by Hitler or anybody else calling for the genocide of the Jews. He gave the only answer he gave the only answer he could that in all his research he had not.
I note you have united against Fascism attitudes to anyone who holds an opinion other than yours, violence!!!!
Returning to the concept of free speech in France, again, I waited until Nicky Campbell’s show this morning before replying to you. I want to see if “Holocaust denial laws” were brought up by the audience. One Muslim man tried to do so on several occasions, but the topic was swiftly moved on, with one so-called observer, saying “I Ahhh yes thats different, because that is an historical event”. What utter nonsense. Your hypocrisy which I’ve highlighted would result in people like you choosing what meetings I can attend who I can listen to and what books I can and cannot read, that is what happens with France on this particular topic, and it is an insult to anybody’s intelligence to then call that country, a supporter of free speech!
Let me leave you with this example about a man who was a high-profile member of the French resistance, I would urge you to read this and others to if you want a true analogy of the hypocrisy surrounding this so-called free-speech concept in France, and the hypocrisy of people who want to be selective on what constitutes free-speech and who is entitled to it.
This high profile french member of the French resistance, was a teacher pacifist Communist before World War II. When he joined the French resistance, he formed a section specifically to help Jews escape the Nazis. He was arrested along with his wife and two children, and whilst his wife and two children with released after two days this man was brutally tortured and was sent to two concentration camps. After the war he was a 95% invalid due to his torture. He was awarded France’s highest non-military medal, the first person to be awarded it. It is called Vermilion Medal of the French Recognition and the Rosette of Resistance. He died prematurely due to his disabilities.
If this man was alive today he would be in jail in France He is known as the “founding father”of Holocaust revisionism. He went to his grave, stating that gas Chambers never existed, he never denied the wars brutality, or the suffering, on all sides or the crimes on all sides.
His reward If he were alive today for helping Jews fleeing the Nazis, for being captured and spending two years in concentration camps, would be jail for his views and beliefs based upon his experiences. His name? Paul Rassinier
That is how ludicrous the laws are, that is how hypocritical people who are defending France’s so-called right to free speech are, and that is how hypocritical people like you are who want to be selective in what constitutes and what does not constitute free-speech.
If you feel that dismissing me as a troll somehow makes you feel better about yourself and strengthens your argument then, as the Americans would say “knock yourself out”. But, I do not think you know the definition of the word “troll”.
Actually, I do have one more example. View this clip
it is former EDL leader Tommy Robinson addressing the Oxford union. It is very interesting. One part in particular, (1hour 7 mins) he describes how he spent 20 weeks in solitary confinement, a breach of human rights. After he had been in solitary confinement for 12 weeks his parents contacted human rights lawyers, who say the law states that you can only be locked up in solitary confinement 30 days, so Tommy Robinson’s human rights were clearly being breached. To get round the human rights act the prison system, each 30 days, moved him from one jail to another and, h is 30 days would start all over again. His parents said “our son has been in solitary confinement 12 weeks, locked up 23 ½ hours a day only allowed to go out into a cage for half an hour on his own”. Human rights lawyers, “cast-iron case.” “This is a clear human Rights breach. ”
His parents “our son is Tommy Robinson”. Human rights lawyers “sorry, we will not represent you”. They even contacted the lawyers who represented the killers of Jamie Bulger, who again said “Yes, This is a breach of human rights,”….. but then refused to act for him when they found out it was Tommy Robinson of the EDL.
So my long-winded point to you and people like you, if we do not all enjoy freedom of speech, if we do not all enjoy human rights, then none of us enjoy them. They are not concepts to be selectively given or taken away by you or anyone else.
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Just found out that…according to an article in the Daily Mail by Peter Hitchens…”The French Leftist newspaper Liberation reported on September 12, 1996, that three stalwarts of Charlie Hebdo (including Stephane ‘Charb’ Charbonnier) had campaigned in their magazine to collect more than 170,000 signatures for a petition calling for a ban on the French National Front party. They did this in the name of the ‘Rights of Man’.
Oh the irony…..Members…of ….This clearly extreme left wing magazine….which has mocked the catholic Church in particular…in the name of free speech..wanted to BAN a political party whose views they did not agree with…
…..The left….is there no end to their hypocrisy?????
I was surprised (well, perhaps not…) when I read this, too.
It doesn’t lessen the horror of what the jihadis did – but it does heighten one’s awareness of the mule-like self-destructiveness of the Left.
Out of all the ideologies……it is the “Left” which stifles free speech….according to the FBI Marxism is responsible for more acts of terrorism worldwide than any other race/religion/ideology. They would stamp out in an instant all opposing views and it is clear that those on the staff at Charlie Hebdo were vociferous ANTI FREE SPEECH activists, calling for the BANNING of a party which will likely hold the balance of power in France and enjoys 20% of the vote…..that is how much Charlie Hebdo values free speech..free expression….which is the point i have been trying to highlight..we all enjoy it or we all do not….
France is one of the most anti Free speech countries in the world…and of course now the embers of the outrage die down…we begin to see….
Stalin was reputed to have up to 10 million people incarcerated in concentration camps at any one time, , gulags during his reign,…… average life expectancy was “one winter”……that would what life would be like anywhere if the lunatic left ever got power….
And yet no-one ever ever dares say a word against those who support that regime….!!!! and worse……people support them when they attack, smear, persecute, assault others!!!
These Muslim men are such hunks.