‘What the Islamic State and the 1915 Ottoman Turks have in common is a cruelty based on ideology – even theology – rather than race hatred, although that is not far away.’
Now most people probably don’t agree with Robert Fisk’s take on things but he has bitten the bullet and gone against the grain of his usual fare….
The Christian tragedy in the Middle East did not begin with Isis
The Christian tragedy in the Middle East today needs to be re-thought – as it will be, of course, when Armenians around the world commemorate the 100th anniversary of the genocide of their people by Ottoman Turkey. Perhaps it is time that we acknowledge not only this act of genocide but come to regard it not as just the murder of a minority within the Ottoman Empire, but specifically a Christian minority, killed because they were Armenian but also because they were Christian (many of whom, unfortunately, rather liked the Orthodox, anti-Ottoman Tsar).
And their fate bears some uncommon parallels with the Islamic State murderers of today. The Armenian men were massacred. The women were gang-raped or forced to convert or left to die of hunger. Babies were burned alive – after being stacked in piles. Islamic State cruelty is not new, even if the cult’s technology defeats anything its opponents can achieve.
The crimes of Islamic State are as brutal as any committed by the German army in the Second World War, but Jews who converted were not spared Hitler’s plan for their extermination. What the Islamic State and the 1915 Ottoman Turks have in common is a cruelty based on ideology – even theology – rather than race hatred, although that is not far away. After the burning of churches and of synagogues, the rubble looks much the same.
Of course Fisk could have gone all the way back to the blitz across the Middle East carried out by Muhammed in just the same bloody way that ISIS has swept the region…but I guess that would be a step too far for Fisk.
And note that statement….’What the Islamic State and the 1915 Ottoman Turks have in common is a cruelty based on ideology – even theology – rather than race hatred, although that is not far away.’
So religion is at the heart of this….and it is not ‘racial’….so Islam is not a race as Muslims like to claim.
Well, no way to Fisk that.
What is shaming is that our Governments continue to fail to declare the Armenian tragedy as genocide. For fear of upsetting the Turkish Government.
Is it becoz they woz Christian – one of the oldest Christian communities in the world ?
Is it becoz they woz Christian – one of the oldest Christian communities in the world ?
Yes indeed.
Christians were once a majprity in once Byzantium.
The Turks have, by genocide and hideous persecution, reduced the Christian population of Turkey to less then 0.1%. This means that there is no persecution of Christians, as they are difficult to find. So Turkey is now a civilised country, and should be admitted to the EU.
Lesson. It will happen in Europe and the UK, unless we do something pronto.
Ottoman Turks have in common is a cruelty based on ideology – even theology – rather than race hatred,
What ISIS Really Wants
http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2015/02/what-isis-really-wants/384980/
I read some sense at last and then saw why.
Fisk could have gone back to Genesis when two of the
first recorded acts of genocide (probably better termed Holocausts) were carried out by the jews
at Ai and Jerico. And on that note the Jewish community are very
keen to keep the word Holocaust for themselves wishing not to draw attention to the similar plight of others.
It is sad fact that all Religions are associated with persecution either giving or recieving which is why believing in the supernatural should be discouraged if not supressed.
Man based or athiest religions have been the cause of far greater genocides then anything that even Islam has caused.
“Fisk could have gone back to Genesis when two of the
first recorded acts of genocide (probably better termed Holocausts) were carried out by the Jews
at Ai and Jericho.”
Presumably you mean the stories about the Israelite invasion of Canaan in the Book of Joshua.
Fisk, as INBBC, with their pro-Hamas, anti-Israel political priorities, are way behind, e.g. Raymond Ibrahim and his excellent, constant
pro-Christian campaigning against persecution from Islamic jihadists.
http://www.raymondibrahim.com/
Would also recommend http://www.jihadwatch.org/.
Robert Spencer banned by Theresa May et al from entering UK!!
Says it all,,PC ignorance over fact!
I’m impressed that he cast revisionist PC dogma aside to write about true history. One of the worst events of the 20th Century, that in turn inspired Hitler due to most of the World looking away.
Chamberlain’s buddy Adof said this :
http://www.armenian-genocide.org/hitler.html
“Who after all speaks today of the annihilation of the Armenians?”
Another story the so called great bBC isn’t touching with a bargepole:
ISIS Girl, father admits that he may be the reason she packed her bags in which to join the ISIS circus.
If you google german army and armenian genocide, I think you’ll find that there is sufficient evidence to conclude they were directly involved in assisting the muslim Turks in the massacre of over a million Armenian Christians. And not surprisingly, Turkey fought on the side of germany in the first world war.
I’m not sure about that idea, that Germany was complicit in the Armenian genocide. I’m pretty sure the German ambassador in Constantinople (von Wangenheim) roundly condemned the Armenian genocide. Yes, the Turks were on the same side as Germany, but the “Young Turk” regime wasn’t really fighting the same war as Germany was and, although the caliphate still nominally existed, the likes of Enver Pasha were minimally religious.
No doubt, it was possible to rouse the rural Anatolian Turks and Kurds with jihadist mumbo-jumbo, but a British politician of a century ago could truthfully have stated that the Young Turks had precious little genuine interest in islam (apart from as a mentality to exploit), whereas Cameron or Obama, making the same claim today about isis, is plainly lying.
Turkey was arguably more secular in 1915 than it is today. Undoubtedly, its politicians were. Ironically, it was the arch-secularist, Ataturk, after WWI and the Greek war, who probably sowed the seeds of the destruction of his own vision, when he moved the capital to Ankara. Ankara is in the Turkish Anatolian heartland and has historically been less cosmopolitan than Constantinople/Istanbul.
All in all, it seems to me that Fisk is temperamentally incapable of getting anything right.
“Kenya: Savage jihadists ‘Deeply Embedded’ in Muslim Community”
– See more at: http://pamelageller.com/2015/04/kenya-savage-jihadists-deeply-embedded-in-muslim-community.html/#sthash.J0cu8lNl.dpuf
Just as INBBC is baffled by exodus of Muslims in Britain to join Islamic State, so too ‘New York Times’ is baffled by this exodus of Muslims in Norway to join Islamic State-
‘Jihadwatch’-
“Norway town produces many jihadis, authorities baffled”
[Opening excerpt, by Robert Spencer]:-
“No one, of course, has bothered to check what is being taught in the local mosque. That just might provide a clue.”
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/04/norway-town-produces-many-jihadis-authorities-baffled
Some ever-so-slight encouragement to me, one of my arch leftist friends is now starting to ‘get’ the idea about Islam. Though she hasn’t gone very far, she did ask me why we were constantly being told it is a religion of peace etc.
And this is someone who is happy to declare Thatcher is still the cause of almost everything bad happening in this country, Israelis are Nazis etc etc
I am encouraged because maybe the truth about the cult is at last starting to dawn on people, even leftists. She at least is starting to see it as a BIG problem.
Of course, going from there to doing something about it is a huge step I’m not convinced this country will ever be capable of, in anything like enough time.
ManchesterLad, it is at least a beginning; keep on chipping away, sounds like your friend is starting to question what she’s being told.
A leftist friend of mine said something to me many years ago that your comment has made me remember. Leftist he was, but a free thinker and a democrat too, rare breed.
He was highly critical of the BBC. He used to say that when hewatched a programme on the BBC on a subject about which he was well informed, he was both astonished and appalled by the inaccuracies and omissions; why then, he used to ask, should he consider himself to be reliably informed by BBC programmes about subjects of which he had little prior knowledge?
Keep on chipping!
It is a variation of the claim (made by Robert Conquest I believe) that nobody is left-wing about issues they really know.
The bBC is reporting on a collapsed mosque in Birmingahm , it’s almost 4am, and I’ll put money on the table the bBC are going to milk this.
Looking at the picture the words ‘change of use’,’no planning permission’ and ‘breach of building regulations’ come to mind. That wouldn’t be an internal wall which someone knocked through? Just guessing mind, but be interesting to see.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-32199975
Mind you, for the BBC that would just be a reason why Britain needs more mosques.
Certainly the designations of a place of worship seem rather broad. Do they by chance bring with them any concessions?
I found this interesting, too’ “A specialist dog unit from Leicestershire was brought in to search the area for possible casualties”.
Hope they ensured all were happy first.
The irony here is that in that area of Birmingham the UK has seen the biggest rise in dog fighting in over 200 years. Yet the community which bitches about ‘Police dogs’ not only remains silent on how the faithful keep dogs, but have no problem throwing money at the sport of dog fighting.
Behold the new “norm” if Islam should dominate us – As not, and never will be seen on the BBC…
it was all lies about the crusades,when the christians went on there so called crusades it was not to attack and massacre muslims but to defend the christians in the middle east from the isis of the time saladin and his islamist barbarians who were besieging and commiting mass murder against christians,the real crusaders here in the 21st century are the muslims as now in iraq and syria as in then in the 13th century with saladin and his isis islamists,things have got to get bad when the commie and usually pro muslim bishop stephen lowe and member of the labour party said on the stephen nolans radio 5 live paper review sunday just gone that what is happening all over the arab world and in pakstan is just nothing but a crusade against innocent christians,things must be bad when somebody as left wing as bishop lowe has to admit that that fact believe me.
The Third Crusade failed because the Allies were bickering between themselves and picking fights with Orthodox Christians and Jews, thus diverting them from the true objective of recapturing Jerusalem from the Muslims.
Nothing changes.
“Religious Indoctrination and the Creation of Terrorists”
by Samir Yousif.
http://www.newenglishreview.org/custpage.cfm/frm/177546/sec_id/177546
Just read in the mail that the bbc is lining up Sue Perkins as the next presenter of Top Gear I kid you not!