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I’m most of the way through last night’s EU debate, which some kind soul plonked on YouTube:
There was a steady stream of invective from the Remain side, like the allegation that Leave is involved in project hate, Leave is lying and so on. by contrast, Leave stuck to the facts and was really impressive. The audience was apparently fairly balanced, but that was deliberate policy by the BBC, which has realised that this is not an easily-fiddled lefty QT audience and there’s a large spotlight on it.
The balance in the audience obviously does not necessarily reflect a similar balance in the country in the whole. I believe Brexit is going to win and win well.
Good luck for tomorrow, Brexiters!
I’ve been thinking that if the result is Remain, it may be something of a phyrric victory for the pro-EU camp. The BBC and the media in general seem to think Remain is the ‘safe’ option…but a Remain vote cannot close the Pandora’s box which has been opened in Europe. To quote the final lines of the film ‘The Terminator’: ‘he says there is a storm coming…’
Reposting this from earlier, as it seems relevant to your (very pertinent) post, Cranmer.
Here’s what the EU is hiding until after the referendum…
Coming to an EU country near you soon:
1. A Euro Tax ID For Everyone
2. Fresh Plans for an EU Army
3. Scheme to Hand Out 1 million UK Visas to Turks
4. Compulsory European Programming on Netflix
5. Ruling on Muzzling British Anti-Terror Police
6. Demands for Even More Cash
7. Banning High Power Kettles and Hairdryers
8. Hiking VAT on Food, Medicine and Kids’ Clothes
9. Kicking UK Off International Organizations
10. Suffocating London’s Art Market
Add this to what we already know:
1. Open borders, unlimited immigration
2. Time-limited cap on benefits tourism
3. Brussels override on national sovereignty
4. 60% of laws made by unelected eurocrats
5. Stifling red tape for businesses
6. Protectionism and tariffs
7. Subsidy of inefficient French and Italian farmers
8. Doomed Euro
9. Stifling low growth in EU
10. Mass youth unemployment in EU periphery
Did I leave anything out?
Yep folks, be sure to vote Remain, for the “status quo”. Muwahahahaha.
You left out the fact you made it all up because you arent grown up enough to think about the issues in an adult way. You might like to join a recently formed group who are intending to change the national anthem to Vindaloo and have the Spitfire as our national emblem. Thatll make us feel sooo much more independant whilst our country drops through the per capita GDP rankings. Makes yer feel good to be a pleb dont it?
Rational debate as always, Man who fell off the bus 🙄
As they say in the classics, when you have to resort to ad hominem, you’ve lost the argument.
Fairly typical of the kind of “respectful tone” we have been enjoying from the Remain side in this debate.
Say we import another 5 million immigrants. Would that lower per capita GDP?
Manon, surely you will be aware that Osborne stated firmly – before he threatened a punitive post Brexit Budget – that there will be a recession if we vote Brexit.
Therefore, if there is a Remain win and in the two years that follow there is anything more than the slightest twitch toward an economic downturn, Osborne’s career will be down the toilet. In addition, Labour will have no comeback because, they too backed Remain.
There will be a lot of MPs in Government and Opposition praying every day that the UK & EU economies will grow for two years and that nothing adverse from the global economy will hit them.
If it does, all hell may break loose and it will not be from the Brexiteers. Everyone who voted Remain will be wanting their money back!
We will get VAT on food because Britain is one of only three countries in the EU that doesn’t charge VAT on food. The European Commission gives a certain amount of leeway in the short run, but it expects all member states to fall into line in the long run.
This also apples to VAT on women’s sanitary products.
Peter Allen on Five Dead belittled a woman this morning who related an anecdote about an African woman who demanded social housing for herself and her children. “How can this be attributed to the EU, she’s African, she could be Somalian or Eritrean, she’s not European, this is nothing to do with Europe!” Hey Peter, come down to my neck of the woods in Birmingham and ask the Somalians and other Africans to show you their passports. All of them are are in possession of EU passports issued by either Denmark, Sweden or The Netherlands, which as you already know Peter are EU countries. We’ve also got quite a few Pakistanis who who have EU passports issued in Italy.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/21/waste-cash-leavers-in-out-land-subsidie
The shocking waste of cash even leavers won’t condemn by George Monbiot
Monbiot, a deeply devout believer in all the Guardian proclaims, has finally written a truly brilliantly researched piece on how money is moved from the pockets of the poor to the impossibly wealthy on the basis of how much land they own. The Common Agricultural Policy (CAP)shovels money into the laps of the most affluent folk in the country, including the queen and the Duke of Westminster, though he doesn’t mention that. needless to say the the poor pay their taxes to offer this subsidy.
Then at the end he says he will vote REMAIN and insist on massive change from the EU.
As the EU has been going since the Treaty of Rome in 1957 why does Monbiot believe the EU will suddenly say, ‘oh well f**k me, I didn’t realise we were that corrupt. You know what, we’ll right now stop robbing the poor and feeding the rich right now! Thanks for pointing it out George.’
There is no hope for the children of the revolution.
Vote leave folks even the Guardian writers agree with our arguments.
An observation: the BBC have been saying, since the death of Jo Cox, about the ‘ugly tone’, ‘hateful language’ etc of the campaign. Am I the only one to think exactly the opposite? To me the campaign seems to have been remarkably good natured, with a few notable exceptions, mostly on the Remain side. One rather nice surprise for me has been finding I have much more in common with people I know who I previously thought were ‘raving lefties’; the conversations we have had about the referendum have revealed they are much fairer minded than I believed, and I hope they have discovered the same about me.
It was remarkably good-natured until Leave took the Poll lead. At that point Remain pulled out all the dirty tricks including murdering one of their own.
“It was remarkably good-natured until Leave took the Poll lead. At that point Remain pulled out all the dirty tricks including murdering one of their own.”
Agreed.
Apart, that is, from the continuous death threats to Nigel Farage, of course, which no one bothered to report on…
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/06/20/shoot-and-stab-nigel-farage-hundreds-of-social-media-messages-urging-attacks-on-ukip-leader-revealed/
In fairness to the BBC, they have this quote on their LIVE reporting. It’s pretty damning for the Remain campaign.
“…It would be “very, very foolish” if the EU imposes trade barriers on the UK in the event it votes to leave the EU.” Markus Kerber, the head of the influential BDI which represents German industry, said his organisation would make the case against such measures. He said any introduction of tariffs would be “regression to times we thought we’d left behind in the 1970s”. Mr Kerber told BBC’s World Service:
“Imposing trade barriers, imposing protectionist measures between our two countries – or between the two political centres, the European Union on the one hand and the UK on the other – would be a very, very foolish thing in the 21st century.”
Thats just a matter of opinion. The reason why people want to leave is because of foreigners. Since there is no chance that immigration will come down, after all the biggest immigration is Outside the EU, and Boris says he loves immigrants and immigration (post Cox) I dont really see what people are voting for other than racism and ‘getting our country back’ whatever that means.
It is really very simple for many of us. A freeman must be able to elect those who govern him and dismiss them for misconduct. He must also be able to live under the law that custom and tradition have handed down to him. That same law is only to be changed with his consent through his representatives. No tax shall be raised without the consent of his representatives.
I know it is hard for a relatavist liberal to grasp but the Bill of Rights and Magna Carta still provide all a freeman really needs.
He must be free from arbitary arrest and confiscation of his property. He can only be judged according to the law and by his peers.
The EU does not seem to grasp these things and for that reason it is necessary for us to leave.
Leaving the EU is a start and then perhaps we can deal with the creation of a state fitted to our needs and the 21st century.
This should be a matter for us in Britain alone without interference by anyone. We may be socialist or conservative but that is a matter for us to debate.
Those who wish to remain have little faith in their compatiots or themselves. A sad thing and indicitative of the cynicism of these days. When all talk is of money you can be sure that what is really necessary to a nation and a people is forgotten.
Er, Manon, isn’t all of the offerings from both sides in the EU-Ref ‘opinion’?
If you ask me what problems I see on the economic front for the EU including the UK, I will offer an opinion. If you ask me what can be done to avoid it or to minimise damage to the UK, I will offer ‘an opinion’ but may give you two or three as would many economists.
Economics is about possible options.
Politics is about making the choice between competing options.
Both rely on opinion, do they not?
Yes M………..bus, we’re all racist didn’t you know ? I would ask you, would any nation on earth want those violent thuggish migrants in Calais to become citizens of their country ? Any man worth their salt would stay in their own country and FIGHT for their rights and peace, instead of expecting other nations who have done exactly that, to pick up the bill for them and their extensive families. Yes, I’ll hold my hand up, I don’t want them here, regardless of who they are or where they’re from. I have no respect for them, in either leaving their womenfolk behind, or sending their kids alone to trudge thousands of miles. Why should we look after them ? they are not our responsibility – those who are deeply religious should head for a country of their own religion who will be sympathetic. And don’t throw the NHS at me either, the NHS worked perfectly well without migrant workers in the 50s, 60’s and 70’s until the swarm (yes, that word SWARM that D Cameron used) began, so that argument is dead in the water. I’m certainly not alone in my views, and if you want to call it racism so be it. Personally I couldn’t give a monkeys ! but I’d like to know if your views in 30 years time if Remain win, and you cant move anywhere because the roads are gridlocked, the NHS is no longer existing, and most landlords are not English speaking.
Agree 100%
“I’m certainly not alone in my views, and if you want to call it racism so be it. Personally I couldn’t give a monkeys ! ”
I was called a racist a couple of weeks ago (not here, although I’ve been working on it). My response was: “Yes, according to some definitions I am. What of it?”
Dumbfounded silence.
We should not feel the need to insert a caveat into every sentence about race or religion. Too much of that already and it means that you’re fighting your battle on ground chosen by the enemy. If someone is desperate to see you as a “racist”, they will do so regardless. Just carry on. If those in authority had listened to “racists” years ago, our towns and cities would be far more cohesive than they are.
In my opinion the British people are probably the least racist in the world .
Whilst some say it’s a 50/50 split of votes, others in financial markets say not. The outcome couldn’t be more stark in this financial trader referendum poll snapshot…
Do you expect the June 23 Brexit referendum result to be the UK leaving or staying in the EU?
Leaving 78%
Staying 22%
Although expectations remain elevated, this is the lowest reading since the first week of our tracking poll in early March.
Who do you plan to vote for?
Leaving 97%
Staying 3%
Have you changed your mind over which side you will vote for?
Yes 2%
No 98%
> This suggests, at least for those voting Leave in our poll, that intentions are set and that the undecided vote will be the swing factor.
http://www.tradersadvocate.com/pages/orphan_pages/ExclusiveBrexitPollTurnoutVsUndecided#.V2nWRLgrJ1s
A stark moment on Sky news. Fisherman being interviewed in Hartlepool revealed that British boatmen are unable to get jobs in Europe, and he had the paperwork to uphold his claim. From ‘master’ to the lowest crew member, unless they could speak a continental language they had no chance of getting work in Europe. This doesn’t work in the opposite direction because English is the second language of most Europeans so their ability to work here on the fishing boats is not hindered. I didn’t know this, nor most of the public I suspect, and its a shame that more wasn’t made of this during all of the debates, because it completely flies in the face of the arguments about our ability to work abroad. Equally, do we know the numbers of British working in Europe compared to ‘that lot’ finding jobs over here ?
The fish arent complaining so British people with boats can fish where they like. If your saying that they arent allowed to work abroad thats rubbish. If your saying they cant because they havent learnt the language then thats rather down to them.its about a convincing argument as Gove’s desparately doing his exams while his Dad lost his business to the CFP. Sadly the fact that Goves Dad chucked in the towel years before the common fisheries policy came in seems immaterial.
I think Brissles’ point, rather a good one, was that most people in other EU countries learn English as a second language at school, therefore it is easier for citizens of other EU countries to come to Britain to work than it is for British citizens to go to other EU countries, where they will have to learn a new language from scratch, unless they move to France or Belgium and can brush up on their GCSE French.
Agreed, the fact that many people in this country cant speak at least one other language is a complete disgrace. I would suggest that the cultural reluctance feeds very much into the narrative of the current referendum debate however. Island mentality i guess.
Well, the wonderful Dept of Education over the years has tried to force kids to learn at least one language, and look how well that works. It’s also not true that all European visitors here can speak English. It’s apparent from people’s experience of working in London, and it’s obvious from various documentaries that they don’t all speak English. Or maybe it’s a selective ability. And ps, stop trying to pretend that you know what all voters are thinking cos clearly you don’t.
But it wouldn’t matter if everybody in the UK spoke another language fluently. The point is, all citizens of all continental European countries only have to be able to speak English to work in the UK, and nearly all of them will have learnt it at school, free of charge. This makes the UK an unfairly popular destination for immigration – a Lithuanian or a German or a Pole or an Italian can ALL come to the UK because they will all speak English. A Lithuanian is not going to move to Hungary because he doesn’t speak Hungarian; a German is not going to move to Finland because he doesn’t speak Finnish, etc etc.
“If your saying they cant because they havent learnt the language then thats rather down to them.”
Fine. Let’s apply that to immigrants here instead of subsidising ESOL lessons for them.
Those would be the ones outside of the EU which Boris hopes to increase whilst stopping EU workers I take it.
There’s an ESOL “college” in Upton Park I pass on the bus. Every time I go pass I chuckle when I see the directions “2nd floor”. The building only has a ground and 1st floor!
A metaphor if ever there was one.
I’m afraid that’s just an Americanism. In the States what Brits call the ground floor is called the first floor and what we call the first floor, they call the second. Why it’s used that way in a UK college, I have no idea.
we’re american already! That was quick. Did I miss the vote?
Like the joke. Good ‘un, Manon!
‘Did I miss the vote?’
Amongst much else, yes.
Sorry, are there any fishing jobs actually left in the UK, after the EU ransacked our industry?!?
Actually fishing started to decline after 1900 in the Uk . Fish stocks have recovered after quotas were introduced but sadly much of the traditional species have moved north into colder waters because of global warming.there! Now youre up to date.
Manon,
Please define ” traditional species ” .
maybe it’s like indigenous British!
Oh right, and there was me thinking it was the EU giving our fishing rights to foreign fleets and paying our trawlermen to destroy their boats. Silly old me, eh?
Seriously, do you just make it up as you go along, or do you do any research at all?
Michael Gove: How the EU wrecked my family’s fish business
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/04/michael-gove-how-the-eu-wrecked-my-familys-fish-business/
The EU’s betrayal of Britain’s fishing industry
The EU’s fisheries policies have been a disaster for Britain, destroying communities along our coasts. We should emulate Greenland, get out of the EU as soon as possible, and revive one of our greatest industries
http://www.thecommentator.com/article/6092/the_eu_s_betrayal_of_britain_s_fishing_industry
How the EU Common Fisheries Policy Permanently Damaged Scotland: A Warning for Iceland
http://www.electricscotland.com/history/articles/fishing.htm
The trees have gone!
Years ago a new Superstore was under construction in my city and at the twelfth hour there was a request to fell some beautiful mature trees, not on the site but on a public access road.
This late request to the planning caused uproar.
While the debate was in full swing and in the early hours of one morning when everyone was tucked up in bed contractors turned up and felled the trees anyway.
What has this got to do with BBBC?
The BBC’s suppressing of information, one sided reporting etc. etc. etc. will have an influence on tomorrows referendum, of that there is no doubt.
I hope to God their antics (funded by me) are not enough but if they are and remain win what then? Yes there might be some kind of investigation (unlikely) and even if their actions are condemned and even if heads roll and even if the BBC is forced to change it’s behaviour in the future, the result will stand, the trees will have gone.
OldRec – new trees will grow in their place. It may take time, but they will grow. If they in their turn are cut down, still more will grow, until a forest shades the wilderness. They cannot cheat the truth or destroy an idea.
Hah! They’ll have a bloody good try!
It’s also relevant to the EU. Whatever objections are raised, they will simply do what they want under the cover of darkness.
Whats this got to do with the BBC – absolutely nothing! If you are that concerned about land use you might consider campaigning for the land registry to remain in public hands and be extended so all land is registered. That way we know who is stashing it to keep prices high. You specific case however deals with the power of large companies over councils and local populations. Same as the fraking decision. Rest assured if we leave the EU ,the reason for Boris’ involvement in whipping up a mindless frenzy, you will see pretty much every rule favouring people being ripped up by the government in favour of business.
I believe OldRec’s comment about trees was a metaphor for BBC bias, at least that was how I read it.
Manonclaphamomnibus wrote
“Whats this got to do with the BBC – absolutely nothing! If you are that concerned about land use you might consider campaigning for the land registry to remain in public hands and be extended so all land is registered. That way we know who is stashing it to keep prices high. You specific case however deals with the power of large companies over councils and local populations. Same as the fraking decision. Rest assured if we leave the EU ,the reason for Boris’ involvement in whipping up a mindless frenzy, you will see pretty much every rule favouring people being ripped up by the government in favour of business”.
I’m impressed with the way you have quickly grasped the thrust of my post. Obviously it’s about land use issues and not the BBC in much the same way War and Peace can be said to be about horses.
Why is this news? Hang on, how are the poor luvvies from the BBC going to get to Glasto?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-36594006
Hopefully the BBC will have their helicopters pre booked
I hope this hilarious photo + speech-bubble has been widely enjoyed
http://peterjnorth.blogspot.co.uk/2016/06/voting-to-leave-is-only-way-to-reform.html
Oh that’s priceless – thanks MartinW!
Reposting with full image
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b07hpbpj/daily-politics-20062016
Credit where its due.
Go to 44mins 30 secs!
Interview with a former Norwegian minister on DP about Norway’s two referendums. They had a referendum in 1972 and another in 1994 because the Norwegian govt (and the media) are keen on Norway joining the EU – but the people are not so keen. The first was rejected by 53.5% and the second by 52.2%.
It’s obviously not a direct parallel with our referendum to leave the EU but the interesting thing is the similarities with their govt’s campaign to persuade them to join the EU and our govt’s Remain campaign. This is what the Norwegian govt said would happen if they didn’t vote to join the EU:
– Lose 100,000 jobs
– Businesses would move and investment would dry up
– Welfare and pensions would have to be cut
– Each household would lose £3000 pa
– They would be unable to trade with the EU (? they’re in the single market FFS)
– They would be isolated
– Et cetera
So no difference in not joining to leaving? Even Gove thinks there will be bumbs in the road.
Laughably Farange seems to think this is people versus establishment. Err its estabishment versus establishment. Thats why the toffs are fighting it out while the plebs are getting riled up on slogans.
If anyone wants to bet their job or someone in their family’s on a slogan then they should be medicated.
“Even Gove thinks there will be bumbs in the road.”
Your Freudian slip is showing.
I gave up wearing slips when I started to read Jung!
Manon,
For your sake and the sake of people on this site, please go a see a psychiatrist. You need help .
Thats your argument is it. You my friend shouldnt be allowed to vote.
I am not arguing, I am just trying to give you some advice and it has nothing to do with voting . I feel sorry for you and I think you should seek medical advice.
Thanks for your concern but sadly I have read many of your posts.
That is a great compliment. I am deeply honoured !
No youre deeply troubled.
Manon: “Thats your argument is it. You my friend shouldnt be allowed to vote.”
So you think some people “shouldnt be allowed to vote” and others should?
By your own words, clearly you do not believe in democracy.
Is this why you like the EU so much?
Ive just realised my japanese tele, korean fridge and chinese e-cig are not actually products of the EU, how the fuck did they get into the country , the people demand to know.
Weather forecast for Thursday Rain in the South Sunny in the North, should favour the leave camp.
Whatever outcome is announced on Friday I don’t see Cameron making it to the end of this term as PM.
That is the whole point! Boris isnt interested in anything than taking power. Theres very little evidence that he will actually do anything with it in the same way he had to be forced to carry out his duties as London Mayor. This referendum is like a game of chess with Cameron with millions of plebs scratching their heads trying to understand whats going on.
The short answer is they’re gambling with their jobs. Whilst Boris , being half American and loaded will be spread betting on the UK recession. Still if the idiots of this country want to vote for a court jester with little ability other than a track record of lying theyll just get what they deserve.
The short answer is they’re gambling with their jobs. Whilst Boris , being half American and loaded will be spread betting on the UK recession.
So what have you got to say about the current Mayor of London. He isn;t even half British,
Manonclaptrap. Churchill was half American. He didn’t do a bad job in the end eh?
But maybe you have more regard for people such as Petain or Quisling?
One day before poll and the Beeb website is letting people make comments on the Referendum!
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36594834
I had the comment telling Leave voters to vote on Friday removed! Told al-beeb it was undue influence and an election offence!
“I had the comment telling Leave voters to vote on Friday removed! Told al-beeb it was undue influence and an election offence!”
Muwahahahahaha! Funniest one all day 🙂 They are priceless, aren’t they?!? I mean, WTF have they been doing ALL WEEK?!?
Comments are now closed. I’ve tried to view the comments made but the link disappears when I click on it!!
Are you using the right link? It’s still open on this one:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36594834
The top comment sums everything up well, especially the BBC’s role in all this, and justifies its rather significant rating:
31. Posted by Rational48
At last we get to comment!
Heavily biased pro Remain from the BBC.
No mention on the front page of the riots in Calais.
Nor the Turkish president’s right hand man regarding Cameron’ spurious claims.
Nor the leader of the German CBI denouncing the idea of punitive tariff barriers against the UK.
However this pans out, the media have manipulated the messages.
Vote Leave .
How long it will last who knows?
Seems a lot are well aware what the politico-media estate have tried to pull, and are responding accordingly.
Trouble is, all the postal votes are neatly stored away, so even if anyone wanted to change a mind instructed by others on how to vote now, they cannot.
That’s a great post, Guest Who, thanks for reposting it here. I hope postal votes will go heavily to Leave though – didn’t someone already post some leaked figures here yesterday? Also I think they will more typically be from higher socio-economic bands so should favour Leave (at least according to what I’ve seen of the polls breakdowns). But yes, they will mostly be already in, although of course they can be hand-delivered to any polling station tomorrow.
Many postal votes will be from pensioners who are not taken in by the remain rubbish.
I would think if Cameron is expecting to use the postal votes to give the ‘correct’ result then these votes will need a lot of adjusting. Much more than in Austria.
People with power back Remain. Our Anjem Choudary backs Remain.
Please watch the video and see the cop comply with Anjem’s objection to him wearing a Help for Hero’s wristband.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1321570/jihadist-preacher-anjem-choudary-backs-remain-because-eu-stops-unfair-deportations/
Come on Manon.
Answer this question.
Do you think your opinions matter? Should you have a mechanism where you can put a cross on a piece of paper, and if enough people agree with you can change things?
If so, are you going to vote to return that control fully to you or be a turkey voting for Christmas and head for the fold with all the other EU sheeple?
If you get it wrong with this vote you will have about as much effect in voting in the future as those behind the Berlin Wall used to have!
You can tell us about democracy in the Eu if you want.
Judging by the turnout in Trafalgar Square so far I guess al-Beeb will not be using many wide angle shots to cover the events due to take place soon! Nice to see the three police riot vans ready to control the Remainers.
http://www.camvista.com/england/london/trafalgarsquare_streaming.php
Thanks Aborigine. Erm… where are all the people? The place is all but deserted…
So far it’s about 2 more than the 8 Syrian candle holders.
There are more people in my local Aldi.
Now a decent journalist would turn up and ask the organisers why they did not make it Saturday, when more people could have attended!
The problem with that Mallard, is they would have had to re-arrange the Referendum to Sunday.
Subtle, BBC, subtle. But I see what you did there.
Under the headline: “Final push for votes in EU referendum”, is this picture.
Note how Remain is in the centre, with two smiling faces (David Cameron and Harriet Harman), while Leave are on the outside, captured in rather odd poses (Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage).
Nice subtle bias there, BBC, which no one could really ever call you on.
Sneaky.
Same goes for the goofy image of Boris with the fish at the top of the actual article. Too much to ask to show them all smiling? (Fair, balanced?!?)
http://archive.is/atNsj
Reposting this from earlier, please add your favourites to the list and repost…
Here’s what the EU is hiding until after the referendum.
Coming to an EU country near you soon:
1. A Euro Tax ID For Everyone
2. Fresh Plans for an EU Army
3. Scheme to Hand Out 1 million UK Visas to Turks
4. Compulsory European Programming on Netflix
5. Ruling on Muzzling British Anti-Terror Police
6. Demands for Even More Cash
7. Banning High Power Kettles and Hairdryers
8. Hiking VAT on Food, Medicine and Kids’ Clothes
9. Kicking UK Off International Organizations
10. Suffocating London’s Art Market
Add this to what we already know:
1. Open borders, unlimited immigration
2. Time-limited cap on benefits tourism
3. Brussels override on national sovereignty
4. 60% of laws made by unelected eurocrats
5. Stifling red tape for businesses
6. Protectionism and tariffs
7. Subsidy of inefficient French and Italian farmers
8. Doomed Euro
9. Stifling low growth in EU
10. Mass youth unemployment in EU periphery
Did I leave anything out?
Yep folks, be sure to vote Remain, for the “status quo”. Muwahahahaha.
I’m afraid you did miss something out. The EU is planning a compulsory EU ID for Internet users. The moment you log on, some EU Obersturmbannführer will know. And what you were looking at.
“The EU is planning a compulsory EU ID for Internet users.”
Excellent spot GCooper – scary thought.
Keep ’em coming…
Presumebly the EU Gestapo will be exempt ?
Exempt and tax free, no doubt!
GC,
LOL ! I am wondering how long Cameron and the Elite will delay the result. If it takes them 2 days to rig it , that would suggest a large majority voting Leave. But I simply don’t trust these people .
I have said all along that we will not be alllowed to leave. Goldman Sachs and the rest would be upset and they are such sensitive souls when hurt. Losing all that free money and the rest. So whatever it takes the result will be stay .
Even if they have to spend days filling in the votes.
Sky, not bBBC, but they will be cheering anyway…
http://news.sky.com/story/1715716/man-gets-nine-months-for-channel-tunnel-walk
It makes me weep – another ‘crime pays’ story – please someone tell me why this man is rewarded with asylum in our wonderful country after he commits a crime (in full knowledge of that fact), endagers life, and wastes money and time?
How can he possibly have been granted asylum here? Last I checked, the Channel Tunnel did not go as far as Sudan.
Goes to show it’s not just politicians who are responsible for the levels of immigration, but the officials who are supposed to police it.
This is the problem post Brexit; the lunatics are still running the asylum, but at least they can’t in future point at the EU, and in a few years time there may be some politicians of a calibre to point at who is actually responsible and what they will do about them. These will get my vote, if it exists.
Not on the BBC: EU to open new Turkey membership talks on June 30th
“The EU will open new membership talks with Turkey as planned in a few days, EU diplomatic sources said Wednesday, just as Ankara’s accession becomes a hot-button issue in Britain’s vote on its future in the bloc.
One source, who asked not to be named, told AFP that EU member states will meet June 30 to agree to open a new negotiating chapter with Turkey.”
http://order-order.com/2016/06/22/eu-open-turkey-membership-talks-june-30/
Completely irrelevant as well. Turkey has strategic significance so why wouldnt the EU want to open talks.
If though you are suggesting their membership is just round the corner,its important to realise they are going in the wrong direction for that. Anyways ,havent you heard the one about the EU is terribly slow at organising anything! I think that is a leave mantra.
Turkey does have strategic significance but membership of the EU is another matter as you well know and this specifically refers to that. Turkey has the EU where it wants it. Despite the lack of democracy in that place if Turkey wants in it will get it.
A small point. It is estimated that by end 2017 at least 40% of the 18 to 35 demographic of young male Germans will be recently arrived immigrants from wherever. Unless you are really unable to do the maths that means an inevitable minority status for ethnic Germans .
Aware of this the EU will do as Turkey demands.Not that it will make any difference. The future demographics of the EU are set. Europeans too busy to have children.
Not on the BBC:
GERMAN BUSINESS CHIEF CALLS POSSIBILITY OF POST-BREXIT BARRIERS “VERY, VERY FOOLISH”
Markus Kerber, head of the BDI (Germany’s answer to the CBI), is calling on his country to not risk damaging trade with punitive post-Brexit tariffs.
“Imposing trade barriers, imposing protectionist measures between our two countries – or between the two political centres, the European Union on the one hand and the UK on the other – would be a very, very foolish thing in the 21st century. The BDI would urge politicians on both sides to come up with a trade regime that enables us to uphold and maintain the levels of trade we have”
http://order-order.com/2016/06/22/german-business-chief-calls-possibility-post-brexit-barriers-foolish/
While we are on the subject of ‘not on the BBC’, did the Remain Broadcasting Corporation ever get around to reporting the Calais riots? I’ve been too busy to check their pretend news site for a while.
GC, Can’t see it on the BBC Website. I would have thought that people chanting ” Fuck the UK ” would be news for the BRITISH Broadcasting Corporation ?
I thought as much…. What sort of mental deformation must someone have undergone to become a BBC news editor? The KGB or GRU would have given their eye teeth for that method.
No Grant, David Beckham coming out for Remain is much more relevant, dontchaknow.
Mike,
Not reported on the BBC ?
Why would it be . The BBC check the validity of their sources. I doubt Guido does because he has a mission. The BBC have quite accurately described the varying difficulties with our trading partners and the general confusion that will arise.
It is notable that where there is confusion ,there is usually ineffeciency which will undoubtedly lead to a loss of jobs. With the ‘ bumps in the road’ the depth of which remains unspecific from the leave side many will end up losing their from from this as well.
Never mind we still have a few spitfires!
“The BBC check the validity of their sources.” That didn’t work terribly well for Cliff Richard.
Lobster
Here is what the Man on the Clapped out Bus told us last year …………………………
March 15, 2015 at 1:09 pm
I contribute here because I am highly critical of BBC news.However,I am quite surprised by the lack of objectivity and reasoning. ”
He’s not a man on a bus he is a ‘Man of Straw’.
Or Lord McAlpine, as I recall.
Seems BIJ are back on the team too.
Hugs is doing nicely. George and Mark counting their pensions.
‘where there is confusion, there is usually ineffeciency which will undoubtedly lead to a loss of jobs’
Unless it is the BBC, which is monumentally inefficient and inept, and Lord Hall’s muttered acceptance that cuts need to be made seems to be as good as Dave’s EU promises, oddly not held to account by our speaking truth unto national broadcaster. Professional courtesies.
Mission parameters well and truly met.
I am truly ashamed of David Cameron.
The way he has behaved during the campaign for the EU referendum has been truly woeful, undignified, false and deceptive. Just for the sake of his own personal career he has made wild and wilder predictions of catastrophe for the future of the UK after Brexit to the point where whatever he says is almost laughable. Today was the final straw for me when he is being shown in an interview talking ‘earnestly’ about how bad things will be etc etc but this time carrying a mug of tea bearing the slogan ‘Im in’, of course wearing ‘suitable’ casual attire and his most appropiate face for the camera . Is this what we have come to – to have someone who is no more than a glorified sale representative treating a crucial decision for the Country as some kind of sales initiative? How did this man possibly manage to achieve the highest office in government? I truly do despair of what has happened to this nation
Surely, the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom should shouting from the highest hilltop how he will defend the sovereignty, security, democracy and all interests of the United Kingdom and it’s people in the face of any onslaught from abroad, over and over every day but no, he is willing to sell the entire country down the river so that instead of having one independent, respected international voice he is telling the country to become 1/28th of a voice in a Union that doesn’t listen to anything that the UK says and is clearly bankrupt and doomed to failure.
My parents fought in a war to preserve the sovereignty and democracy of this Country and in my lifetime politicians have just sold it all to the highest bidder. David Cameron you should be ashamed of yourself…….
Of course all this ‘in’ propaganda has been ably supported very succinctly by the bbbc (just to bring this back to this forum).
Here’s hoping for a definitive Brexit vote
Well said. I, too, was also ashamed of him. But not surprised in the least. A spiv is always a spiv.
If you want to preserve democracy then I am afraid you are too late.
In this neoliberalist world where money is litterally made up we now have a massive push by multinational companies to control Nations as though they outposts for free trade.
Many organisations are worried by this and the relative importance of trade over soveriegnty and democracy is growing day by day. Whether people interpret the effects of this is questionable but without doubt the way the troika have treated Greece and the way the Tories have treated the UK have parallels because all western countries are following the same economic mantra. Boris is an extreme version of this which makes the followers of Leave even more amusing. If you think voting leave will somehow reliquish the squeeze on the hard pressed think again. You may think your voting for change but in reality its just more of the same serenaded by suckers that cant tell the difference. By the way my Mum was the yougest airwarden in the country and my Dad built Spits in the war.
It baffles me why you are not voting leave. I have a conservative mind and I too abhor neoliberalism. You are too cynical. Leaving the EU is but a start. Who knows what will flow from that. Take a chance on us and just maybe we can deal with these arrogant scum who think that money is all we are made of and see us as new serfs in their world order.
Still no answer to the question i have put to you three times about whether you think your opinions are worth anything.
If we leave that nice Mr Corbyn, whose policies you seem to quite like. could have unfettered power to do what he likes, so why do you not want to give him a chance to correct the “neoliberal” problems caused in this country.
We could emulate Venezuela, but I suppose you believe the glorious revolution is falling apart because of the neoliberals. The bastards.
Hmmmmm…… if your Mum and Dad were active during the War, then forget my previous comment about your views in 30 years time ! you probably wont be around, because you’re hardly young now !
By the way my Mum was the yougest airwarden in the country and my Dad built Spits in the war.
And what has that got to do with the price of fish? Whilst they may have being loyal to the country, you certainly aren’t.
Interesting viewpoint, Manon. Seems to me to be a bit narrowly pessimistic.
‘Our democracy’ is far from perfect. But it is ‘ours’ and it is a form of ‘democracy’ that more than half the globe envied and could only dream of achieving if miracles happened at some far point in the future. Have you seen Bridge of Spies? Berlin Wall?
Yes, you are right, money is power and money makes the world go round. I would rather we struggle via our democracy, when we get it back, to elect worthy people to have them struggle for us to balance that ‘power of money’. Yes, people in power did not listen when they were advised they needed to rein in capital secrecy, flight & tax havens. Now, at long last it seems they have the message. It’s either continue slow, painful democratic struggle to gain a measure of control for the best prosperity for all or to shrug the shoulders and give up and wait until a revolution occurs.
Problem is, you never then know what sort of revolution you will get and you may find it is worse, far worse, than what you had before.
Am no fan of Boris and think he is dangerous. But discussing the Tories specifically, I’d have to say they have a history of going for the mild leaders. Thatcher is painted as extreme, especially by those on the centre Left, Hard Left and Far Left. Why? Obviously to cover up their failures to do better by the ordinary bloke of nearly a century or so . To keep their grievance industry going as a means of shoring up their vote. Having portrayed as Evil the opposing Leader, those same failures are able to go out and seduce “suckers that cant tell the difference” (your phrase) to vote for their jam tomorrow.
The big difference is that tomorrow, a Leave vote – especially one from each of all four Home Nations – will (or should) break the Labour Party and drastically re-shape the Conservatives. Dave will go, later if not sooner. Osborne will probably have to resign immediately. Just as 2014 changed the Scottish political landscape, so 2016 may change that of the whole UK.
If it’s a Remain vote, as I still fear (although brave in heart, still) then, yes, I agree with your general analysis, we are mere pawns until the Babel of Brussels is put on the market or in the hands of developers to be transformed into housing.
An English Gentleman
I have said it before and I say it again – ‘Lions led by Donkeys’
An apt term for the government and the ordinary British people.
‘There is a storm coming’.
Anyone notice how Prof Curtis , the sephologist of choice for the BBC , who has previously seemed quite detached and objective , has in the last week said’ what we need to be worried about is…’ both times about what may be happening to the declining Remain vote. Once may have been a slip of the tongue but twice seems to indicate bias towards Remain. Now he is an academic so is probably pro leave, he may get EU funds for his ‘research’, I don’t know , and he does work for the BBC, so perhaps we might expect that privately he is for Remain, but to allow his personal bias to repeatedly spill over into his work for the BBC is not acceptable. Perhaps his objectivity has been tainted by BBC group think and provided that he doesn’t actually wear his Remain scarf on TV he thinks it OK to show a bit of bias for Remain. After all just about everyone around him at the BBC is.
Pro Remain
Multinational Corporations
Big Banks
Politicians
USA
EU
Labour Party/SNP/Liberal
Trade Unions
BBC/ITV/Channel 4
IMF
Against
The People of Britain
I trust none of the Remain groups as named above.
The vote will be rigged Remain will win. But I would love to be wrong.
Interesting that so many lefties support the Remain groups like the Banksters,etc.
There are some honourable lefties like Gisela Stuart, they are certainly not on this site, maybe they should watch Lexit on YouTube.
VERY concerning to hear Boris repeat his plan to give amnesty to illegal immigrants.
There will be a FLOOD of lorry jumpers if this is even a possibility.
Appalling to reward illegality too.
He did qualify it by saying they had to be here for 12 yrs?
Not Bbbc, I am not often a frequenter of Facebook , but may I suggest you all take a peep at the comments flowing in on the ‘Vote to Remain’ site.
Had to turn off the tribute to Jo Cox in Trafalgar Square (that was being celebrated around the world). The speaker who droned on and on and on and on was Malala Yousafzai – the schoolgirl who was shot and has made her home here. I’m sorry but I think we’ve had enough now, and there appears to be no end to this outpouring. The cynic in me says that, give it 18 months and Brendan Cox will have a ‘new love in his life’. He’s young, not unattractive and young children who need a mother. Its happened so often before, i.e. Russ Lindsay – Caron Keatings’ husband (Gloria Hunnifords daughter), Darren Clarke the golfer.
Apparently U2 have recorded a tribute song. FFS!
Can’t they just rejig a la Elton?
Achtung Baby maybe?
I don’t have the link but this is from the Indiependent
Brendan Cox was telling crowds how the killed Labour MP “lived for her beliefs” and would have been spending the day campaigning for Britain to remain in the European Union.
All these Hitler references. How tasteless and lacking in decorum!
I’ve just been listening to a Swiss commentator who was asked what he thought about Brexiters comparing the EU with Hitler. “That’s absolutely outrageous ” he cries in an indignant voice “Hitler was at least elected once”.
‘I’ve just been listening to a Swiss commentator who was asked what he thought about Brexiters comparing the EU with Hitler. “That’s absolutely outrageous ” he cries in an indignant voice “Hitler was at least elected once”.’
LOL – priceless 🙂
I suspect the idea was to have Mrs Cox’s funeral today or at least a lying in state, but for whatever reason (post mortem?) that wasn’t possible so instead they had this mawkish exhibition. Did Airey Neave, Ian Gow, Reverend Bradford, or any of the other MPs murdered in the line of duty get anything like this? No.
> I suspect the idea was to have Mrs Cox’s funeral today or at least a lying in state
Or maybe there was just extra poignancy in that today would have been her birthday.
I mean, I realise that would have little purchase amongst Biased BBC’s hard-hearted usuals, who care little about other people because they’re far too busy trying to convince themselves that by being nasty little shits online that they’re in some way compensating for the lack of humanity in their real lives.
Don’t say you’re just as much of a simpleton as they are – are you?
Just for the info:
I am voting out.
I am Spartacus !
I will be voting for OUT too.
Reckon that we`ll win, but am dismayed at what I think has been the craven stupidity of the political class-and their docile camp followers who`d rather let their thoughts be mediated by the Hall of smoke and mirrors that has been the whole media coverage of this landmark referendum.
And any cultured or discerning society would surely have laughed to scorn the threats, the insults and the spook stuff from the Remainians.
Can only hope that Russell Brand , Harmans pink bus and Eds Stone from last year will find their historical landmarks in the form of Jo Cox, we`ll take your pensions and £4,300 worse off if you leave…we didn`t laugh at the time, but made a note for later.
There maybe ARE two types of people in this country-those prepared to cook their own steak-and even go to the abbatoir to see the gory methods….and those who demand that the BBC pre-chew it for them before making their kids pay for it at the end of the pigout.
That it`s EU horsemeat won`t be an issue…unless Shergar himself has decided to recommend a Remain vote tomorrow…and the liberal media would have told us that had it been true.
But-Anjem Choudhury wants us to stay in, but the BBC seem not to have trumpeted that-isn`t that only the latest example of Islamophobia?…Cherie Blair to head an enquiry maybe?
Are you with Tim Martin and James Dyson?…or with Chris Patten and David Beckham?
Francis Drake or Nick Drake?
That`s the national split-depends if the State have paid you and marinaded you in Socialislam I guess.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36599300
Ha ha, the hand gesture says it all.
Anyway, just read the headlines in my local paper and a straw poll of 1300 people in the city centre had leave winning 64/36 – let’s hope that’s reflected throughout the country.
At first glance I thought he was holding a revolver. What a pity ……
Love the Remain argument that the EU is good for jobs.
Maybe they should go and have a chat with the under 25s in Greece and Spain. Won’t be too difficult to find someone to talk at length in normal working hours.
The EU is good for jobs if you like picking strawberries and living in a static caravan outside Wisbech.
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sir-cliff-may-sue-bbc-for-broadcasting-sex-claim-raid-dt9w0mld5
I say – Go for it Cliff !
What do you think Man on the clapped out bus ? – who said, “…..I am highly critical of BBC news.”
PS. If they are sued who pays the bill ?
taffman,
You know, and we know, the answer to that one. Your question highlights yet another advantage of the way our national treasure’s unique funding mechanism works only in the BBC’s favour.
LEAVE shortens on Betfair from 4.1 to 3.5 over last couple of hours
Funny, but Juncker’s latest call to arms seems not to have reassured others:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/spiegel-brexit-cover-story-please-don-t-go-a-1099070.html#ref=nl-international
http://heatst.com/uk/senior-french-economists-german-paper-back-brexit-full-text/
Sing… louder. Just, don’t run out of fuel.
PM speaking at Birmingham Uni. to ‘Vote Remain’ supporters .
Did I hear an AlBeeb presenter say that there was only a ‘small crowd’ there because it had been kept down for ‘security reasons’ ???
My barber today told me that all his customers over the past couple of weeks said that they were going to vote Leave. This also applied to the women’s hairdresser’s next door.
He also said that his customers’ biggest annoyance recently had been the election of Khan as London Mayor.
Barbers are an excellent source of information.
Location is one of the shires and not London.
Kind of weird logic when the election of Khan hasnt got a huge amount to do with the EU. Of course EU immigrants were able to vote for Khan, but I doubt they were enough to swing the vote. It was far more to do with the unappealing Tory candidate, and the fact that London is a larger Labour voting city, as well as Khan winning the ‘people of colour’ vote.
Here’s a funny story. I’ve recently been househunting in a small, rather remote, very English village in the outer Home Counties. I decided to get my hair cut so I could sound out the barber about living in the local area. It turned out he was Turkish and could literally not understand a single word of English!
Why is it up to this man to speak up for the interests of the United Kingdom?
Why has this not been broadcast by the bbbc?
Why do we not have speeches from the elected members of parliament like this?
Let us just hope that a Brexit vote is also a wave goodbye to Cameron (Hopefully by the end of the day)
Daughter working in London is convinced it will be Bremain. Apparently all the yuppies she knows are voting Bremain, everyone in her office. After much indecision she is voting out.
Of course all these well paid young Londoners have flats, enormous mortgages, they just dont want any rocking of the economic boat, but what she finds sickening is their self righteousness about it, and their scorn of Brexiters.
Channel 4 viewers, I shouldn’t wonder!
London’s been a lost cause for a long time. Most of the people I know there (educated middle class types) seem to view Brexiters as thick, xenophobic/racist, ‘Little Englanders’ etc whilst Remainers are cosmopolitan, liberal, well travelled etc. Total nonsense of course but that’s the impression I get. It’s not helped by the Evening Standard being somewhat rabidly pro-Remain.
> what she finds sickening is their self righteousness about it, and their scorn of Brexiters.
But Biased BBCers’ scorn of those wishing to remain in the EU is OK, I suppose?
I guess being consistent and non-hypocritical would get you thrown out of the Biased BBC Commenters’ Club, so I understand why you’re reluctant to live up to the same standards you demand of others. Far more important to stick your tongue up David Vance’s backside, isn’t it?
no jerrod
its your insistence that ALL in favour of out are old, uneducated,racists with no valid points worries or objections to what is being foisted on them without their consent.
its your insistence that all immigration is good, all immigrants are good, there are no bad apples and no need to check on any of them, they are all welcome.
It is your insistence that my friends on zero hour contracts,in part time work, on minimum wage, or out of work have had their lives improved by a massive increase in the available workforce and more of the same will only further enrich their lives.
Its your insistence that the eu is wonderful whilst sacrificing your greek brothers for a generation.
it is your insistence that frau merkel gives a flying shit about working class british residents or any other european.
it is your insistence that the “rumours” of what will come next in the EU will not happen and that cameron, who you hate will veto them on your behalf.
it is your insistence that we can reform from the inside, when even faced with the crisis of a major contributor (or should that be one of the few contributors) leaving they told us to fuck off and die.
the list could go on endlessly
this is why your views deserve scorn
“my insistence”?
“Your made up fantasies”, more like.
Stop lying about what people you imagine disagree with you think, and you might, just might, find that people are more willing to stop thinking of you as a demented twerp not worth listening to.
Morning Jerrod and comrades. Remember Bob Crow RIP. vote leave, it’s what he would have wanted.
If such ‘passionate’ debating behaviour about anything but BBC activity does not sway welcome new posters like TheBrutalTruth, what will?
Keep up the good work Jerrod. Bless you, you, you.
Jerrod
Calling people liars, insults, and sexual innuendos like ‘sticking your tongue up backsides’. Your arguments do not connect. I am sure than many of us posting here can be refuted on some things, but you never get beyond the insults.
So can you answer my colleague’s question regarding your sexual behaviour. She has a large EU research grant to study the sexual behaviour of internet trolls. Her question is. Do you make a series of grunts when having sex, like ooh, ooh aah, or do you simply remain silent letting out a long ooooaaah at the ends?
An answer would help her EU funded University project.
GWF – please answer my question. Why do you have an unhealthy obsession with other people’s sex lives?
It’s because Al-Beeb will not let a day go past without telling us that Heterosexuality is so yesterday.
Even today they share the awful news that ‘Majority of LGBT people ‘hide sexuality”.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-36603501
Of course that’s not something we’ve noticed on this website as Jerrod, Scott, Zero and you, when not engaged in more insalubrious proclivities at Clapham Public Toilets, leave no holes barred when it comes to ramming it down our throats – metaphorically of course.
Talking about sexuality has boy Owen Jones been on TV lately – his views on why the referendum is only for gays might be interesting
Marvin, Its just that I did the course on Diversity at Yooni and we covered every aspect of sexuality as a means of respecting people’s identities.
Apart from that, Marvin, you might note that Jerrod/Zro almost always blend their adhominem arguments with sexual innuendos, like ‘ licking arses, wanking etc.
“This is a battle between those who don’t like the European Union and say we should definitely leave, and those who don’t like the European Union but say ‘oh well, we should stay’,”
chris grayling sums up the whole sorry pile of crap
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36547530
Today’s the day. Upon this day depends the future of Britain and all we cherish. This day will be known henceforth by all as Saint Nigel of Dover day!
Except in the abodes of the guilty…
(With reference and reverence to Henry V and Sir Winston).