Midweek Thread 14 November 2018
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Sluff
I get the feeling the whole thing is now beyond bias – and its only worth generalising until we get to see what the proposed exit agreement looks like – I won’t say ‘deal’ .
If the government had been serious about carrying out the result of the referendum we’d be a Long way toward a full exit from the ReichEU – telling them that if they want a border in Northern Ireland they can build it themselves .
With a bit of luck the government will be derailed but being a cynic there will be enough gongs being promised to put another hundred in the house of expenses and enough knighthoods to do another series of Game of Thrones .
Meanwhile of course the labour front bench is just waiting for the election …..
As for what Gammon writes above – refreshing to have a remainer on the site .
Why would you say that? Please take it back…
1 – That tweet of the greens Lucas was reported on the BBC live feed (not my words)
2 – May stupidly (or calculated) offered up a third option which remainers are obviously jumping on
3 – did you not read my previous post
I am sorry if my language is not overt enough to remove any ambiguity
Thanks
Gammon ,
If that’s addressed to me – yes – read your post – but when you write ‘let’s have a people’s vote ‘ that is normally the noise remainers make .
And as for the line about ‘base language ‘ – grow up.
I didn’t write it – that’s the point….. read the post…. it’s a quoted tweet… Lucas wrote it…. BBC reported it…… whatever, tensions running high – tomorrows another day
Tensions running high. Understatement of the night.
I too listened to May give the now three options apparently on the table and no brexit was clearly there. In fact, all I’ve heard from the msm and particularly beeb quislings is “peoples vote” all bloody day. Cowards don’t even have the front to call it a second referendum as they continue to treat us as worthless voteless fools.
Honestus,
Peston just pointed out to the very unimpressive Brandon Lewis that May had given the third option, no Brexit, and asked what it meant, why was this suddenly being mentioned/ threatened.
A little flustered and unconvincing, he said that what she had meant was that if this deal was not accepted we would find ourselves either with no deal or back to the beginning of negotiations all over again.
Brandon. Come on son, give us some credit will you, you complete and utter tube.
Agree honestus, however so many of the voting public do not engage in educating themselves in finding out about matters of the day that will most concern their lives-their concern for the continuance of a free country of a nation where we shall not be shackled to, dictated to by the EU, comes nowhere near their understanding. Yes I am afraid I do have a low opinon of many of my fellow countrymen, that have allowed the easy life to flood into their lives over the past 45yrs-now weak bellied, feeblely so anxious that their pleasures will be taken away if they don’t do as those controllers of their lives dictate. Much of this weakness has been the influx of a style of life from America-ruination of our high streets with over spill of Supermarkets, overindulgence in all ways, ruination of our language, with ‘likes’ and ‘kind of’s’ every second word or phrase, yet America have a pride of their nation, as even the pupils in their schools stand to parise America every day-do we in Britain do that? No we don’t we seem not to want to be proud anymore, but rather attend to the voices that appear intent on pulling us apart; to the extent of defacing statues of those that gave us so much, of erecting others that without our imput would have no place in our land. A changing World, maybe but not one I like much.
Do you ever hear the media or even a politician putting forward the UK’s benefits to the EEC ? It is always about the demands of Europe and the ‘obligation’ of the UK to concede and defer. Why don’t they shout about the fact that we have a trade in excess of £300billion with Europe and a deficit of £60billion. Remind the EEC that we are one of their most important trading partners and should command a lot of clout in any negotiations.
Are they going to stop Mercedes, BMW, Audi, Peugeot, Citroen etc selling their cars to us and what would their hundred of thousands employees have to say about that as they stand waiting for their dole. Mind you, it could be a huge boost to the UK car manufacturers.
If Europe is suggesting that it will obstruct emergency medical supplies reaching this country, what sort of ‘partner’ are they ?
Why on earth would we refuse doctors and nurses entry to this country ?
I never had any problem traveling to France, Spain or Greece before we joined the then Common Market and Europeans had no problem coming here, so why should there be a problem after we leave the EEC ?
Etc etc etc ……far too many reasons for me to go on but maybe we should list as many as we can and send it to the media and politicians. (both in lower case you will observe,)
Just wish people would have confidence and respect in what was once the greatest nation in the world.
( probably have the police on my doorstep now to arrest me on a charge of ‘Hate Crime’ for defending my country.)
All spot on observations but no one wants to stand up for the UK. To do so would be called Nationalism.
All spot on observations but no one wants to stand up for the UK. To do so would be called Nationalism.
All spot on observations but no one wants to stand up for the UK. To do so would be called Nationalism.
All spot on observations but no one wants to stand up for the UK. To do so would be called Nationalism.
14 November Draft Agreement on the withdrawal of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland from the European Union and the European Atomic Energy Community
PDF, 1.37MB, 585 pages
….. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/progress-on-the-uks-exit-from-and-future-relationship-with-the-european-union
Stew thanks ——585 pages
2 years, 6 months and 585 pages of nothing.
We have been sold a basket of lies and deceit.
Former British colonies gained independence quicker and with much better deals.
The Tory Party is finished.
Vote and support UKIP. We voted out.
The whole thing makes me feel sick. She seems to have made a slip in mentioning ‘no brexit’.
Also very suspicious that the Beeb and Sky are relatively quiet and not critical of the deal….so it must be favorable to them ie pro EU.
“Beeb and Sky are relatively quiet”
Knew something was suspicious when suddenly; Barnie was smiling!
No wonder, I’ve just read the points re Defence corporation with Strasburger!.
Very kind Moodswing .and good to hear no licence . Me neither.
Not mentioned by the BBC so far.
Rees-Mogg makes an appeal to Tory MPs.
https://order-order.com/
Stew, letters good, but when asked if he would write a letter of no confidence he emphatically said no. Why not! May cannot by her actions to date be part of the solution here. This is crystal clear.
We have her crap deal, which is remain. We have no brexit, which is remain. Or we ‘crash out’ with no deal which she will never countenance as it will not be in “the national interest”.
Very interesting phrase. A cowards phrase and she will see no brexit sooner than her shite deal binned.
Quote from someone called ashingtonman:
”
Many people voted Leave and were saying “You are not listening to us”.
Theresa May took over 2 years to confirm “Of course were f***ing not!”.
”
Spot on if you pardon his justified anger and use of the vernacular.
Fracking Czar a Labour MP has told the media to lay off the scaremongering
page 1
Researchers at the University of Liverpool prodeuced a 5.7Mb report on a 1.1 micro-tremor
Quick screenshot of the essence
the 1.1 ML microseismic event linked to @CuadrillaUK #fracking at over 2 km under #Lancashire
would induce the same ground movement at the surface as dropping three saucepans on the floor
The BBC has no shame:
Its headline: “Trump’s attack on Macron lacked ‘common decency’”
Macron wanted an EU army to stated he wanted an army to stand up to enemies such as Russia, China and the US! All while the bodies of almost ten thousand US soldiers lie under the soil of France. Those Americans did what the French failed to do, defend France from the Germans.
Macron is the tosser who lacks any level of decency. If he is too much of a chump to thank the yanks, or the Brits, he should just keep his mouth shut.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46212727
How’s it going in brainwashthekids-land ?
Did you spot that guys ?
There was a tweet above The tweet from @birchgrovecomp school, which George was replying to
In it the school was promoting their Anti-bullying week with a “name who you respect” wall
They appear to have deleted the entire Twitter account in the last few minutes
The TR FB page shows the wall with any kids cropped out of the photo
What did GQ edit out at 52m40s of the Jordan Peterson interrogation by Helen Lewis when she talks about patriachy ?
Then later
1:35:47 Helen Lewis accuses #TommyRobinson of trying to collapse grooming trial at Leeds, and says his imprisonment was an appropriate punishment.
Busy week for Theresa as 70 MPs call to offer Asia Bibi asylum (seems her speedy getaway to the Netherlands didn’t happen and she is still in Pakistan).
The previous governor of Punjab — who had lobbied for Bibi’s pardon and campaigned to repeal Pakistan’s blasphemy laws — was assassinated in 2011 by Mumtaz Qadri, his own bodyguard. Qadri was executed but praised by the radical preachers Haseeb ur Rehman and Mohammad Naqib ur Rehman (the former saying “every person who loves Islam and Prophet is in grief for the martyrdom of Mumtaz Qadri.”)
Conflict of interest much? Here’s the latter meeting the Archbishop of Canterbury in 2016 to discuss interfaith relations and countering “the narrative of extremism and terrorism.”
Also having a “lovely meeting” with Manchester Police last year:
Horrendous. I note in the article it says ‘case closed’, ie no further discussion, attention required.
We are now seeing the results of the insane immigration policy of the last few decades (none!) with an alarming outcome.
Crime gang convicted of people smuggling in West Lothian http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-46208803
Yep when I heard it reported on the radio on LBC or local
it was not mentioned that the attacking child was Somalian
Say it! Say It’s ISLAMIC terrorism.
Going to avoid the media today the best I can.
Theresa May will be gone soon so a new PM is on the cards. That won’t be raincoat Corbyn though so the BBC has better start quivering. If it is Mogg then good riddance to the BBC
See you all on the other side!
Mrs Chamberlain has been negotiating on behalf of the EU. Al Beeb has been supporting the EU.
They both have to go. The N I Minister has laid his cards down.
Rees Mogg has to step up or the Tory party is finished.
Vote or support UKIP.
Dont hold your breadth Smoogie.
The modern day Conservative parties capacity for sticking two fingers up to the electorate- if it means five minutes extra to park your well upholstered arse on a green bench – never ceases to amaze me.
Oaknash et al
When May was elected I had high hopes, they fell when she made the disastrous election campaign, then started to slide well before Chequers and now I am in a never ending helter skelter of depression hoping somebody with some Brexit balls (gender neural speaking of course) will take over.
She has to go..but who will take over? The BBC are loving this as it plays into their agenda….
When are we going to have a true Brexit is Brexit march? The problem seems to be we don’t have a strong leading person to galvanise as Farage did with UKIP.
Yes I think we do have have a strong person and male to boot in David Davies who knows as much as anyone about the EU, next he should bring in Boris like him or not he speaks fluently for the UK, maybe add Duncan-Smith a strong Brexit man, a few more could be pursuaded no doubt, but let’s have fewer women-no nothing against them but for the moment we need men to fight against the male gangsters Brussles.
tarien,
I’m a woman and I agree. We need some men with some real backbone to step up. A Thatcher would be most welcome as well of course but women like her are rare. We have more women in powerful positions than ever before yet we have a nation that is increasingly unsafe for even our youngest female citizens. It’s obviously not working.
I’d rather be governed by honourable men than keep dishonourable women in charge for the sake of diversity.
Thank you Lucy, glad you agree, my wife and my three daughters-in-Law also firmly agree-however these strong guys have to set aside their well paid positions and face this nation honestly. If the EU want to negotiate any further then they come to the UK not the other way around and tell them to keep the engine running because they won’t be staying that long. I had a grandparent in WW1, a Father and Uncles in WW2, two of Mothers young handsome cousins died in action- have had two sons in theartres of War during the 90’s and into 2004. Thank goodness they survived unscathed, have lived & worked in Europe and have friends still there but have felt continental, I am British and I take great umbridge of watching this nation being forced against the will of its people to be shackled to the shoe laces of the European Union.
I was very concerned about Mrs May from the start of her appointment as Prime Minister – as Home Sec she had never sounded strong enough. But in recent weeks I have kept asking myself, ‘Would Mrs Thatcher behaved like this?’ and the answer has always been ‘No.’ Would Mrs Thatcher have gone to Berlin to seek Angela’s approval? Would Mrs Thatcher have promised £39 billion? Would Mrs Thatcher have threatened her cabinet with taking taxis home from Chequers? (answer to the last one is, if she had, she certainly would not have allowed an ex minister to leak the story).
Debs,
talk is talk and May is most definitely no Margaret Thatcher!
As BBC Breakfasts Chris Page enjoyed a cheery cup of coffee from a cafe in Republican stronghold Newry, just inside Northern Ireland, a few miles from the border of contention, he enjoyed a conversation with the business owner, Graeme Finnegan.
They talked about the proposed Brexit deal and Our Graeme shared his relief that there would be no hard border and that a backstop had been put in place, this being in the best interests of all in Northern Ireland. Maintaining our current relationship with the Republic of Ireland was an essential part of any Brexit deal especially for local businesses and, of course it goes without saying, to ensure that there was no return to the dark days of Border checkpoints and watchtowers, as Chris and the presented-as-a-typical Northern Irish businessman Graeme agreed.
Afterall, the benefits of having no hard border are something Newry native Graeme has long advocated, well before mention of Brexit, as far back as 2011 in fact. This is when he shared a platform with Gerry Adams at a meeting organised by Sinn Fein to demand the removal of any border entirely and to demand a United Ireland, all in the interests of business, of course, as his local newspaper reported then.
I’m sure the bBBC checked for any preheld opinions, or political beliefs, or indoctrinated Republican bias that Graeme might have before airing their cosy chat live on national breakfast television. Didn’t they?
So the betrayal is confirmed.
Confirmation, if any were needed, how correct the judgement of those who voted “Leave” in the referendum
was.
The EU did what it has always done, lied, cheated and ignored “incorrect” results.
The Conservative Party, or part thereof, have lied for 50 years about their intentions and the EU.
The Civil Service, also known as The Labour Party, has supported the international Marxists against its own people since the 1930s.
Cable, Clegg and co continue to be “patriotic” traitors.
I see no reason to conform to any legislation enacted by this prominent crowd of scum.
On the contrary, it is time to look earlier in our history for examples of genuine patriotic behaviour.
1381 would be a good place to start. The blood already shed in the defence of these islands demands nothing else.
Quite right Last Chance-1381 the council of Britain faced the Peasants Revolt-this threat to the establishment was very well timed-as most of the Army was away elsewhere leaving relatively little force to resist the Peasants-Richard 11 was on the throne a pathetic individual, 14 yrs old, however the people had a misguided faith in thinking the King champion of their needs. Richard did consent to all of Wat Tyler’s demands-Tyler then went as we know too far and was killed, the Peasants got nuaght and went home, but to be fair what had they in their defence as of then? Nothing-the power of deceit in dispersing trouble had been clearly demonstrated as could happen now-a peoples vote to oust the Prime Minister and to throw the strangling agreement into the
Thames?
Dark Arts of the Deal
This morning Donald Tusk compliments the work of Barnier and says this agreement has protected the interests of the 27.
If you supplement the words EU for the 27, I think he is probably telling the truth.
And yet our Theresa May basically says: sorry, it’s the best we could get.
R4 BBC talking to Obama lovey Democrat John Kerry ..allowed to say POTUS didn’t go to memorial because of raindrops (a lie) without challenge and now telling us why he and Obama were/are Remainers….doesn’t he know the USA isn’t in the EU?
BBC at it’s best – just rolling out anyone to build their momentum.. Polite words fail me..
JA, he kept referring to President Obama. Is John Kerry ‘losing his marbles’?
Leadership Contest Now Looks Likely:
“”Conservative MP and ERG member Anne Marie Morris told Newsnight last night that she believes the 1922 Committee chairman has the required 48 letters from Conservative MPs in order to trigger a leadership contest.””
https://order-order.com/
At what point is anything that May has done been considered a deal. What have we, the UK, actually got?
What have those that instructed, not asked, the UK govt to deliver actually received?
It’s been nothing but submission, appeasement and capitulation. The Beeb are happy to label or at least publicise Trump speaking to Putin as treasonous but are allowing this gross act of treachery by May to just pass by.
This useless spineless fool is selling the whole country down the river. Okay, we aren’t the force that we used to be but we did used to be able to punch above our weight. But this dribblig moron has ‘negotiated’ with absolutely no faith in our position, what we can bring and what we can remove if we don’t get our way.
The MSM cringe at Trumps nationlism but this woman has shown zero courage in sticking up for us. She’s our f*****g leader yet she can’t argue on our side.
It’s an utter disgrace it really is. I was delighted when we voted for Brexit and wanted Leadsom to take the reins. She might have been inexperienced or rather untainted by bureacratic greyness but she had patriotism in her heart. She had a bit more fight and I think she would have surrounded herself with like minded people in the cabinet and hence presented a far stronger front against the EU.
What’s happened makes me so angry that it’s moved from fury to an apathetic resignation. Yes, I’d vote UKIP in protest if they ran in my area but my faith in democracy and pride in my govt is shattered.
Theresa May is a Civil Servant through and through, far too afraid to rock any boats, yet conceited enough to try and con the public.
I cannot put into words how angry and betrayed i feel today. Its now a FACT that MY VOTE is worth less than the supposedly more educated, elite class. This is great Britain 2018. Sad , sad day.
We invade other counties and our servicemen and women lose their lives in order to give those other countries DEMOCRACY but we ignore it ourselves.
Please President Trump, help.
with respect Doobster I’m relatively well educated and have friends also who are and who voted LEAVE…lets not conflate this with the old ‘class struggle’ cliche please?….its exactly what some people want.
I voted Leave because the EU was becoming a socialist superstate…simples. This has nothing to do with an ‘educated elite’.
Incidentally we need elitism in all walks of life…its what Brits do quite well.
I’m sorry if that is patronising its not meant to be but I think we are all angry today…
No mither …. not patronising at all. Good points, well made.
A couple of weeks ago the BBC heavily promoted a global warming paper that showed how the earth had heated, but the heat had only gone and hidden itself in the deepest oceans. Turns out to be total garbage, now admitted by the author but I guess we will have to wait for a retraction!!
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2018/11/14/delingpole-we-really-muffed-it-scientist-admits-error-in-hyped-global-warming-study/
Patience, patience to all reading and posting on here and who want to leave the EU.
I think the PM may have ‘played a blinder’ on Brexit, as the BBC’s football pundits would say. We do not know for sure that No Deal will negate the payment of the £39bn to Brussels but at present it seems that it may.
I think the PM was aiming for a No Deal Brexit all along. She allowed Gina Miller & others to apparently box the Government in with the demand for a Parliamentary vote before Brexit. She therefore knew the best way to get a No-Deal Brexit, at no fault to her, was to put up a ‘grey option’ that some in Parliament would reject. Preferably some from both sides of the Remain:Leave divide.
All we can do now, is hope and pray that Parliament will indeed reject this deal – and any other offers, unless they have no strings whatsoever attached – and we will leave without a deal on 29 March 2019. A little gentle, polite lobbying of MPs, to let them know your wishes, might be a good idea, too.
I think it more likely that May has been bought by the EU and is looking forward to a nice EU pension.
Or she and her husband have some unsavoury skeletons in their closet.
I cannot believe that Treezer is in any way involved with the negotiations. It’s all been done for her. The BBC were aware of this when they and others who support the EU backed her.
At the appropriate time she will go, receive her pension, no inquiries into her dad or her links with shariah supporters.
Up2
Looks like you were 15 minutes ahead of the events .
And just to think – all of this is the consequence of politicians from Heath on ward -aided and abetted by the BBC and other media lieing to us about what was happening in our country – as
Well as the corrupt drunks running the ReichEU for the Franco – Krauts …
I admire your confidence in May to pull a blinder but I think the reality is that the majority of MPs are weak and foolish and will rubber stamp this through for fear of media targeting.
She’s sold us down the river and should be ashamed of herself. All that time in wanting to be the leader of the UK and all she’s done is lead us off a cliff.
There is no excuse for her actions and the idea that she is some kind of tactical genius able to read the minds of the MPs to ascertain our future is ridiculous.
She’s a bumbling, dishonourable career politician masquerading as a leader. Thanks for absolutely nothing.
Love her or hate her but you always knew that Mrs T put the country first. The only thing Mrs M has put first is herself and her EU puppet masters. I am thoroughly disgusted with her and the cabal of traitors around her.
Dominic Raab just resigned.
Let’s keep them coming….
Parliament may well reject this Grand Capitulation to the EU but the whole excercise smacks of bad government, with so little time to arrange to leave with a few minor agreements to keep the planes and medicines moving etc. Somewhere during this time period ( the meaningful vote or when the actual legislation has to go through) we will also face May’s resignation. Good news in itself but also another hiatus until a replacement is found.
The only way to avoid this is to get rid of her now instead of allowing the above events to unfold in December or January. But have enough Tory MPs got the guts to do this?
On top if all this is the fact that bad governance is normally punished at the polls. Even with a No Deal Brexit and a new leader it could be tough but it’s the only hope of avoiding a Corbyn fronted Marxist regime.
I too admire your positivity and optimism. What to me was most interesting was the shouting down of MP Esther McVey by the civil servant Mark Sedwill. It shows the power that they have been influencing behind the scenes and feel that they had the right to overrule a member of the Cabinet.
Have they got the guts? That is the question indeed. Personally I would if in Government endeavour to put David Davies in as PM, he knows as much as anyone about the EU and knows how they deal, with maybe Boris, Rees-Mogg, Duncan-Smith, even Farage, it would be a tough team to represent us and throw out this daft agreement. We must not stay in any way shackled to the EU if we want to remain a Free Democartic nationand a beakon for others who may also want to break away from the EU.
Up2
Whilst I like your optimism I am not convinced. I think she is basically an honourable person who can’t negotiate and listens to too many Remainers disguised as honest brokers..
she is doomed..
Another brick in the wall…Raab has gone
So Raab resigns – bbc news at this time is talking about penguins – sky on the case .at least 2 ministers have some honour .
I read 250 pages of the proposed 586 pages last night but then gave up as a waste of time . I think if I had a hard copy it would be fairly easy to flush down the karzee which is where it is going .
You have to hand it to mr raab – resigning before May goes to do a chamberlain in the house of wasters today – maximum damage and with a bit of luck she will be gone by the end of the week – but that’s the third time I ve said it.
Mr Raabs resignation speech will be a real popcorn Job
This is going so fast now that it seems to quick for the bbc to inject lefty remain bias into it but we ll see.
I supppse the new PM will go for an extension of A50 or a general election or both. Lucky that the Socialists are in the same mess as the red torries….
As Taffman would no doubt concur-the way to stick it to them is to stop falling for the lib/lab/CON and vote UKIP!
If 17.4 million vote UKIP it will not be a wasted vote and they will have influence in the HOC.
Dyst
In my constituency if I and people like me voted UKIP a labour MP would be returned because the right would be split . And I want IDS to be my MP.
Besides -UKIP is a bit soft for me …
I cannot vote Conservative now. Certainly not while May is leader, despite my MP being a Brexiteer. I voted for them in the last election because I wanted to believe May and knew that Labour would renege on their manifesto promises with regard to Brexit.
However, May has reneged on her Brexit promises and her party does not deserve any support while she is leader. I and others like me wouldn’t be responsible for Corbyn becoming PM. The blame should be on all the Conservatives who still support May and this capitulation of a deal. If we get no Brexit then those voting Conservative will be responsible for Corbyn.
She hasn’t gone for a bad deal, but the worst. We will be worse off than we were before Brexit, both economically and in our subjugation to the EU. No deal is infinitely better than this shower of .
I am so angry I cannot express my real feelings without getting banned from this site for profanities.
Demon,
trust me, your anger is justified and shared.
I am just having a breather from verbalising my anger at Chucks on 5live when he stated for the millionth time that nobody voted to be poorer! All together……….that’s because it wasn’t a bloody option on the ballot paper!!!
But I did read the Cameron leaflet which I paid for which told me a leave vote was a step into the unknown. I knew that there would trials and tribulations, ups and downs, risks that were difficult to quantify, and I did..not..care! I wanted the UK out of the project. End of.
Some of my fellow Britons believe that their vote matters more than my vote. I disagree….. and am prepared to disagree forcibly if necessary.
I think a cut and paste resignation letter would come in handy. Perhaps The PM might use it too.
For some reason the local garden centre has run out of pitchforks and maps of London.
Hopefully the hardware stores are down on stocks of rope also.
Can we please not go down that road here?
@Stew
“Fork Handles……’andles for forks….”
Yorkshire Post : Lord Deben says UK’ll reduce beef cattle and have water buffalo .. and we’ll live in wooden huts.
… It seems every 2 or 3 weeks the YP will give over half a page to Deben’s CCC latest press release.
This one pretends to be about 2 new CCC reports.
\\ Future changes could see “wet-farming” on restored peat soils, growing crops such as blueberries, reeds and sphagnum and rearing water buffalo//
Deben “What we’re saying is not that the answer is vegetarianism, that would be the wrong answer, it’s that people will eat better meat, eat less of it, get the balanced diet that the Government wants.”
\\ A second report from the committee said use of “biomass” or plant material could help cut emissions, as long as it is done sustainably, with tighter rules on sourcing plants for energy, substantial increases in using wood in buildings//
Same cutNpasted words, different title
https://www.eadt.co.uk/business/farming/climate-change-committee-livestock-cut-call-1-5780408
Stew, how much CO2 and methane does a water buffalo generate?
And will not all the water, which was – we were told – being consumed unnecessarily & harmfully for grain & beef production now be used up to create wetlands?
There is a contradiction : Now we have cattle emitting methane and is counted as BAD cos they emit methane.
but hang on was the methane from all the ruminants thay man killed bad ?
It’s only 5 minutes since North America was full of bison then rabid hunters made them almost extinct
… are they eco-heroes now ?
Esther McVey gone ….
Esther McVey, my MP, has resigned. I’ve sent her a short note to congratulate her on being an honourable patriot.
Is this the beginning of the end for Mrs May and her gang?
I had a go at reading ‘the deal’ last night, far to much reference to ‘EU law’ for my liking, and then I gave up for the good of my health.
Having slept on it I am still not happy, but what does strike me is that the politicians and the media, yes you BBC, as is their way have continously mis-described the process and draft conclusion.
Right from the start the EU has said that it wanted to negotiate a withdrawl agreement first and only then would it start negotiating a new arrangement. We should have rejected this approach from the start. If we were leaving the gym club we would have just stopped paying and stopped going, this ‘withdrawl agreement’ is like continuing to pay the gym until such time as they consider us fit enough, (sometime never), to leave.
So in short, this isn’t a deal, good or bad. It is a mechanism to geld us and tie us into a tighter arrangement than the Lisbon Treaty, which at least did have a (Article 50) ‘get-out’ clause.
Spot on, Jim: “Right from the start the EU has said that it wanted to negotiate a withdrawl agreement first and only then would it start negotiating a new arrangement. We should have rejected this approach from the start.”
I agree. The withdrawal agreement is called Article 50. That’s it.
We’re leaving – goodbye.
Right, now that is resolved what about our relationship moving forward.
How about an FTA like you have with Singapore and no paid premiums.
The Irish/Northern Irish border has been used ridiculously by the EU as a beating stick. The population of Ireland is 4.8 million and 67 million in the UK are bowing to empty threats of border trouble. Ireland exports more goods to the UK than it imports. If the EU had, as they say, been negotiating in our interest, surely making Ireland a special customs area would have been the most sensible action.
Ireland would have been a winner, and been able to continue exporting to the UK, and using the UK for transporting goods to the EU, vital for their economy. The whole of the UK would not have to be held to ransom in a locked in agreement. No border needed.
Lass,
As a Northern Irish man I agree wholeheartedly, the English in particular have been betrayed by May and her Cabinet because I don’t think that they really thought they could stoop so low.
I think that we on the other hand kind of expected it over here.
Lass- I am not a friend of conspiracy theories, but the manner in which this issue has been used as a pretext to force the entire UK into a customs union, from which it can never leave unilaterally, makes me wonder.
I keep comparing May to Merkel, and -since the former took over- have been wondering out loud whether they are not of a very similar mindset.
There is a sort of blinkered determination to hang on regardless; the more people tell them they are damaging their countries, the more the conviction grows in them that they are The One and theirs is The Way. There is no alternative, and no way back. Opposition merely reinforces the mindset.
For Merkel, one could say that her upbringing in the GDR, apparently as a secretary for Agitprop in the FDJ (Communist Youth)shaped her thinking, and that -deep down- she has never changed.
But May has no such background. So, how do we explain her?
Fake,
Similar age, career politicians, no children, both had fathers who were church ministers. There’s bound to be something in their religious indoctrination that makes them so vainly obstinate, perhaps they had overly strict childhoods and see their stubborness as rebellion. I don’t know.
But I do know the sooner we get the foolish notion that putting women in charge makes everything automatically better simply because they are female out of society’s system the better, take note bBBC, because it is obviously complete and utter bs.
I’ll have a look at the line that the bBBC take later but I’m sure they”ll go the same way as Sky at the minute.
The MPs resigning are rats leaving a sinking ship, they are career politicians who are positioning for future leadership bids, they have no great track record in top level po!itics. They are in short irrelevant.
The likes of Adam Boulton and that abysmal woman Ridge of course have no concept of principle or of a sense of duty or morals, no accountability, they have not considered that these Cabinet Ministers have resigned simply because they know that this deal is betraying the British people, because they themselves could and would not understand of know how to do the right thing. So they attempt to belittle and to sneer and to spin and to lie.
As I say, I expect Sky’s journalistic colleagues at the bBBC to predictably follow suit.
I think SKY/BBC/et al view chaos and uncertainty as the best way to drive us back to the EU.
While I could be completely wrong on the PM’s tactics, as outlined above at 8.46am, there is another interesting aspect to consider right now.
A metaphorical gun is being held, not to the PM’s head right now, but to the heads of the EU leadership. If Parliament rejects the deal, as I hope and expect them to, then all the PM can do is return to Brussels and say “Sorry. I tried, but the deal is off, Parliament will not accept it.”
Juncker and Barnier & Co will not like that. Especially as it may be accompanied by some ‘noises off’ from Poland, Hungary, Czech Republic and, most of all at present, Italy.
Then there are the shadowy figures that lurk behind the EU, they will not like it either. It must have dawned on them that Brussels has been completely stupid on this ever since Dave first put the proposal to hold the EU Referendum to Parliament. They may not be too happy either and at odds with the ‘frontmen’.
They will be forced to either:
1. come up with a much more favourable trade deal, one almost condition-less, and/or
2. agree an Article 50 extension despite ‘rules being rules’ in Brussels, and/or
3. insist that the UK Parliament returns to the people for a second Referendum.
All that, as I understand it, would have to be agreed by all Member States together, and at the moment Brussels is a little at odds with Poland and Hungary and Italy.
I wonder if the PM enjoys watching American football and is now running out the clock?
Snuff – what about ‘No Deal’?
Is that not the gun May is holding to the heads of everyone, be they Labour, DUP, Tories etc etc?
fnw, think that is out of the PM’s hands right now. Parliament has to have its say.
The pressure will be on Remainers in the Conservative and Labour Parties to not create the conditions for a General Election, especially with themselves looking like EU stooges in the eyes of what may be an increasingly anti-EU voting public.
We live in interesting times!
Watch and pray.
Up2
normally you’re on the money, but this time….there is no cunning plan. There is (was) an unequivocal instruction which May thought was the wrong instruction. She then allowed vested interest (minority) groups to make the running, always with a heavy heart, and done has she has always done and fudged the path of least resistance.
Parliament, labour especially would always have voted down the deal….any deal. As would the other useless agitators Libs, SNP etc. Not for the country good but to give the hated tories a good kicking along with the quisling tories who enjoy giving themselves a kicking.
Sorry Snuff I agree with Honestus. You are giving this duplicitous Quisling too much credit. On Brexit her whole modus operandi seems to revolve around deceit.
Do you really think the resignation of the likes of Boris and DD was due to some great Machievellan plan to get us the best Brexit deal?
Personally I have more than a few doubts.
Maybe, maybe. You could both be right. We may never know whether it was a cunning plan, inherent Remainer deviousness or just sheer clumsiness …
…… along with some Divine intervention maybe?
However the next key thing is the Parliamentary vote. If that fails, the PM can then go to Brussels and say “I have nothing to put before you thanks to the UK Parliament.”
Then the No Deal gun is firmly pointed at Brussels.
Did you hear Ken Clarke on TWatO today?
As a Remainer (introduced as a Europhile) he said he thinks it will be bad to leave the EU anyway, but leaving without a deal will be far, far, worse. It will collapse our economy, he said.
Now, where have I heard that before? Ummmmmhhh … ?
Which in Remainer Europhile-speak means that leaving without a deal, especially if we don’t hand over any cash, will probably – almost certainly – be the best of all outcomes.
A few doubts? I agree there’s a strong element of uncertainty. That’s justified. If you have access to a Bible, I recommend reading about the doubts back then in Joshua ch 5 verses 9 to 15. Old Joshua needed a boost and it came unexpectedly.
Now is the time to be strong & very courageous and trust in God and Brexit! We need to rid of the reproach of the EU and Brussels.
I won’t go back to Egypt. It’s time for the Promised Land.
I hope to goodness your interesting theory is right. I could not understand how she could be so unintelligent with her proposal, thinking she could get it past the country, so perhaps there is more. Goodness knows I hope so.
“I could not understand how she could be so unintelligent”
She’s been working at it for some time. She failed as Home Secretary, coining the phrase “nasty party”, which has been thrown back at the hapless Conservatives ever since. She lied about immigration and presided over the castration of our police.
As PM she has continued her dirty work, and called a disastrous general election. And now this.
She has disproved the Peter Principle that people in a hierarchy rise to their “level of incompetence”. She reached that some time ago but her ascent didn’t stop. I suppose she’s had her eyes on Brussels.
Anne
Excellent post. Completely agree.
TM is no Moses or Joshua, that I agree. I’ve written my thoughts on her around the time of the week or three following the 2017 GE week and you can read them there in the B-BBC archives.
However, she is a clergyman’s daughter and if only by osmosis, chunks of Scripture will have soaked into her brain and psyche way back in childhood, if less so since.
As was pointed out by Sarah Montague and Evan Davies on TWatO and PM, respectively, TM is the only game in town right now. No-one is going to spark a leadership contest that will not have bad consequences for their camp. Remainers, because they will be pointed at as frustrating Brexit and used to increase pressure for out without a deal. Brexiteers, because they risk a worse deal than that currently on offer and/or the uncertainty of a GE or 2nd Referendum.
All the PM has to do now is dig her kitten heels in until close to 29 March, then she can switch off her light-sabre, bow her coweled head, and allow the EU or Remainers to slice at an empty cloak.
Interesting theory but you are giving Theresa far too much tactical credit.
She doesn’t care. She isn’t trying to secure a better deal for the UK. She isn’t kept awake at night by the thought of betraying the majority that voted to Leave. She’s only worried about the overly vocal minority and her MSM apologists.
She doesn’t have a plan because she has no investment in a legacy. I’m not digging her out for not having kids, just saying that she clearly doesn’t give two shits about what this means.
I’ve always thought that people who harp on about The War (meaning WW2) at every opportunity can be very tiresome indeed. I’m not suggesting for one minute, however, that it should be forgotten.
Last night, to get away from Brexit and May for a while, we watched an excellent French film about the rounding up of Jews in Paris. It is called La Rafle (The Roundup) and the cast includes the excellent Jean Reno. Like many WW2 films from Europe, it dispenses with “Private Ryan” style heroics in favour of reality.
It was a harrowing experience and reminded us that within living memory of our parents’ generation, and almost ours, one European country was doing this to another.
Obviously things have improved somewhat. But the fact remains, it happened. I’m not saying that Britain’s history is perfect, but it’s definitely better than most. We need to do our own thing and get away from this progressive lie that anything foreign is open-minded, internationalist and cannot possibly be narrow minded or parochial. We must divorce ourselves from these bitter, unpleasant, self serving, grey haired old European civil servants and look outwards. They don’t think like us, or most of us (Corbyn springs to mind). T May might think we need a nanny, I don’t.
Anne, that is why I was upset by Fedup’s use of the words piling up bodies in conjunction with landfill in one of his posts about four or five Threads back.
Many of us – who were not alive then, I emphasise – have not forgotten.
Anne
A good post and I agree that our history is overall morally less bad than most other European countries,since the late 1800’s when searching for new places to colonize was all the rage.
As for WWII it wasn’t only the French gendarmerie who quite willingly rounded up the Jews, you’ll find instances of it all over western europe.
In eastern europe the Nazis had all the enthusiastic helpers they needed running pogroms as they swept eastward in Operation Barbarossa.
I have never bought the naive idea that Germany and France are our wonderful new ‘friends’ based on 50 years of being in the same socialist wealth-redistribution club. We’ve warred with the French pretty much for ever, and the Germans – they like to murderously run amok now and then.
We killed many thousands of innocent civilians in northern France from D-Day onwards while our armies struggled to get to the Rhine. Bombing the cities, strafing the countryside trying to destroy the enemy. I doubt that that resentment goes away in one generation. And there’s the resentment of having to be helped to oust the Germans in the first place. We then bombed German cities into dust and created a wasteland with uncountable deaths.
It’s nice to be peaceful neighbours if possible, but no good can come from us trying to be all cosmopolitan and copying the continentals.
Anyway, I believe you’re right, they don’t think like us. If you go back far enough, there was an old treaty following the end of Charlemagne’s empire. It was carved up into three chunks, I think those old divisions still have resonance today.
Henceforth, Dominic Raab will be known to all as Domino Raab….
DS, is that because he resigned because he was unhappy with every pizza the deal?
Up2 I hope to goodness your interesting theory is right. I could not understand how she could be so unintelligent with her proposal, thinking she could get it past the country, so perhaps there is more. Goodness knows I hope so.
Me, too.
Parliament could yet – under pressure from Civil Servants? – sell out ‘the people’ by amending or diverting the deal vote and trap us in the EU. We are not out and clear yet, which is why patience is required.
We need Parliament to give it a straight rejection. We can then thank Gina Miller and her three fellow plaintiffs for their time, trouble and expense.
https://order-order.com/2018/11/14/blair-robbins-chequers-camouflage-tribute-civil-service/
blair congratulates robins for his eu deception
K, we need to get Steve Hilton to come back to the UK and tell all.
In the fullness of time it will be interesting to know whether May was operating the cock- up or conspiracy approach, namely
– delaying giving Article 50 notice for 6 months so increasing public frustration with the whole Brexit issue and giving elite Remainers more time to organise and undermine
– giving in to the EU insistance that withdrawal
Is negotiated before future trade arrangements are determined . Hence £39 billion for nothing .
– Falling for EU and Irish trickery over the ridiculous and unnecessary hard border threat, which has now led us into the customs union, different arrangements for NI and a backstop we can’t get out of
– Setting out sensible objectives and principles in January 2017 at Lancaster House and then reneging on them
What we don’t hear at all in this little game of Poker, not from the politicians, not from the media, is this:
The EU is itself in a process of metamorphosis. We joined the EEC, but it changed into something else. Well, the present EU WILL also be changing into something else. It is a journey and we have not arrived.
The French and Germans are at the heart of the project of ‘ever closer and deeper union’. These countries have allowed their respective parliaments to sit on each other’s behalf. Maybe Merkel has in mind the old ML idea of the ‘withering away of the state’. (Things may change: the German economy is deteriorating. The French want political leadership and access to German money. Who knows what can happen to this little romance if the cupboard turns out to be bare…)
When France and Germany have withered away (and presumably everyone else in the EU) we will be left only with the beaurocrats at the Commission running things…
If the May plan goes through, because everyone is afraid of ‘No Deal’ or a second Referendum, it will be in the hands of the Commission when and if they let the UK go its own way. Tony Blair was right when he said we will have no say in the politics/decision-making in future (albeit for the wrong motive).
What we need now is Baldric, with one of his ‘cunning plans’. Can’t be any worse than May’s.
Blackadder Quotes as to what happened in Cabinet
Answer to May yesterday from her carrot to the cabinet members: “I’ve no desire to hang around with a bunch of upper-class delinquents, do 20 minutes’ work and then spend the rest of the day loafing about in Paris drinking gallons of champagne and having dozens of moist, pink, highly experienced French peasant girls galloping up and down my – hang on…”
Answer to May from Boris supporters: “Worst idea since someone said ‘yeah let’s take this suspiciously large wooden horse into Troy, statues are all the rage this season’.”
FNW,
Me? I have the utmost sympathy for Treezer. In her “negotiations with the EU” she must be terribly conflicted between instructions from her masters, the Globalist/NWO and the EU. Happily for her, they are both on the same side so that eases things for her. The population of the UK don’t get a look in I’m afraid.
As I’ve asserted before, General Elections in the UK surely can never be the same again. Consider this situation:
1. A General Election based upon the UK’s ‘First Past the Post’ (“FPtP”) principle as amended by the ‘FPtP’ 2016 Referendum;
2. Voters in Maidenhead vote Conservative 51.89% and Labour, 48.11%;
3. The ‘amended’ FPtP system means that if the Labour 48.11% of voters are not happy with the result they can demand a second election or deny the validity of the first. Likewise in other constituencies where the result is a narrow margin between winner and loser.
Has a precedent been set I ask myself?
What could go wrong?
I see, does that mean we in Wales are due another devolution vote? Which previously went 50.3 to 49.7
DC,
Absolutely, why not? Fairs fair………..
Fake,
Blair and his ilk deserve no recognition for stating the obvious. Indeed, it was due to their constant haranguing of a clearly indecisive May which has resulted in this worst of all world ‘deal’.
The loathsome ‘people vote’ will now be championed by all the usual suspects to somehow extricate us from this mess.
option 1 – Mays sellout
option 2 – ‘Crash Out’, ‘Cliff Edge’ (choose whichever) No Deal
option 3 – remain in EU.
Now we can see more clearly where this eventually would have always ended up.
I will vote no more – corbyn can wreak his havoc.
fnw, absolutely! Those words, relayed by Stew Green, from Guy Verhofstadt yesterday in relation to a EU Army, I found and still do, extremely chilling. “It is our destiny.” he said.
Now, that is real 1930s talk, BBC. Why are you not making a fuss about that from Broadcasting House? As much as a fuss you make about President Trump?
The one good thing coming out of this Brexit process is that a large number of conservatives /dup have woken up to the traitors at the bBC.
In the long run they and competing technologies should bring about their implosion.
Anyone else gobsmacked that it takes 500 pages to describe a withdrawal arrangement?
And what about the final relationship deal ( not that there will ever be one) but the draft will surely have to be delivered by a container vessel……to vassal by vessel….boom boom.
Looking at the BBC live coverage of the PM in Parliament. Someone described it as a ‘mauling’. Well, ‘Mauling my a***’.
May needs a form of shariah punishment, of which she has tried to promote so hard as compatible with British law.
GWF,
may has delivered as close a successful outcome to meet the beebs wildest dreams. Look for the ‘courageous woman’ epitates in their spewings knowing all roads now potentially lead to remain in eu or marxist madhouse.