As has been pointed out, Russia has just invaded Georgia with 150 tanks rolling across the border. Sky has it as the lead story – the BBC has the Olympic opening ceremony as its lead story. World class broadcasting, eh? If you want news, best avoid the Olympic broadcaster. Clearly given the HUGE investment that the BBC has made with OUR money, viewers are going to have the Olympics shoved down their throat, like it or not, invasions or otherwise.
WHAT’S AN INVASION BETWEEN FRIENDS?
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“So you support Hitler’s annexation of the Sudetenland ?
Peter | 10.08.08 – 12:12 am”
No. Like I said the Czechs weren’t ready to murder German civilians indiscriminately.
So did you support the bombing of Kosovo or not??
“Well the west isn’t reacting militarily to Georgia so that isn’t a surprise.”
Yes,I suppose you’re right Ivan, the anti-war brigade would never opposed Russian aggression.
BTW.If the South Ossetians are separatists why were the Russian issuing passports,making them de facto Russian citizens?
John Bull = Hillhunt ?
“Yes,I suppose you’re right Ivan, the anti-war brigade would never opposed Russian aggression. Peter | 10.08.08 – 12:21 am”
Your point is already moot. Like I said above, the left were overwhelmingly in love with the war on Kosovo.
By the way did you support the bombing of Kosovo, and Serbia, or not?
Did you ?
Since I answered your lame Sudetenland question, but you refuse to answer mine I will have to assume you did support Clinton’s bombing of Kosovo and Serbia. Pointing out your hypocrisy (on many levels) would be superfluous.
You see my Dear Bull the subject was Georgia,you are the one changing the subject.Perhaps out of embarrassment for your snivelling and indecent support of the annexation of the Sudetenland.
Have you no shame?
Perhaps the left were in favour of Kosovan independence because of the Muslim aspect? It looks like developing into another fledging Muslim state in the region. As far as I can see in the lefty media, ‘ethnic Albanians’ is a code for Muslims.
Correct me if I’m wrong.
Peter is squirming now isn’t he?
Let me recap: Peter brings up Sudetenland, I bring up Kosovo. Peter asks my opinion on Sudetenland – I answer. I ask his opinion on Kosovo – no answer.
A few words for you to ponder on: hypocrisy, Kosovo, hypocrisy, Kosovo, hypocrisy, Kosovo, hypocrisy, Kosovo.
Good night.
And it does indeed seem that John Bull is using the same linguistic mannerisms as Hillhunt / Reith did. They have been quiet recently. Perhaps their Summer holidays are over.
Hi Firefoxx, I don’t know who those usernames belong to, but my IP address can easily be checked.
I was about to comment on your previous post (which seemed somewhat cerebral and even interesting) but since you are on on the boo and hooray bandwagon, I’ll leave you to it.
You have a problem Bull,
In your analogy the Russians equal the Nazis,the Georgians are the Czechs.
Buggers up the poor little Russians angle doesn’t it?
Cassandra wrote: Russia is in no shape to take on NATO face to face.
I think Russia is in a very good strategic shape to take on NATO. Any NATO war planner will think “what is going to be the scenario in a conflict with Russia”?. As NATO is far more powerful in conventional weaponry, Russia is likely to use battlefield nukes in the event of a debacle. NATO has no option but to respond. All that will lead is to an upping the ante by Russia. Where are we going here?
In the days of the Soviet Union, the MAD doctrine worked, as both sides had something to lose. Not so now. Russia has a population of 150m. The Western world around 800m. The West is also far richer. This means that the West has far more to lose in a nuclear standoff. In fact, the West will be forced to blink.
No, I do not think it is in our interest to enter into a conflict with Russia, or a face to face standoff. Russia has to sell its oil anyway, and also make a profit from any pipelines. I think we should let this pass. There other far more serious crisis coming up shortly, and we will need Russia’s help/approval, rather then hostility.
“whereas the Georgians just want to kill these pesky Russian wannabes.
”
but the ossetians are NOT russian… your ignorance of the bigger geopolitical consequences of not supporting georgia are telling.
i have no stake in this – but i can clearly see what russia is trying to do here.
DP111,
I wonder what these ‘far more serious problems’ will be, Can you explain please? Why would we need Russian help/approval in these future ‘crises’?
I think you are confusing a limited NATO intervention in Georgia S/O causing a tactical retreat by the R/F forces and a full scale war between NATO and the R/F. You must realise NATO would never launch a full scale conventional invasion against Russia! Russia would only use battlefield nukes if their territory was being overun and because NATO would never invade the Russian motherland the scenario you mention isnt even a possibility. Russia wouldnt be so stupid as to risk total destruction by using tactical nukes for a few thousand fake russian passport holders they aint that stupid! The truth is that Russia wants a bridgehead past the mountains and a perfect base with which to launch a future assault. This is all about a Russian desire to use S/O as a future assault platform and any talk of Russia giving a flying fuck about a few fake russian passport holders is a self delusion, remember Beslan,Chechnya,Moscow theatre seige? Russia cares nothing for civilian casualties if they get in the way of its tactical or strategic goals, they have no concept of, as they see it, western handwringing weakness!
I notice the thread has been invaded by the ‘surrender at at any cost’ brigade!
Its hard to ignore the kneejerk anti NATO/west slant to their posts I think?
“I think we should let this pass” says it all doesnt it?
Russian forces are taking Abkhazia and have already taken South Ossetia, the Russians have got what they wanted in full!
You have to hand it to Ivan, they have cocked a snook at NATO and the takeover of Georgian territory is now a ‘reality on the ground’! Phase two is the flooding of troops into these areas and the consolidation of the new frontiers. a broken and divided NATO was left floundering and the EU barely had time to hoist the white flag and the ‘anti war peaceniks’ didnt even have time to organise an anti US protest!
1500 innocent civilians slaughtered in one day will not be mentioned over and over and over again by the Beeb the way 1200 dead in Lebanon in one summer were mentioned–not to mention the fact that over 600 of them were Hezbollah fighters–a figure that Hezbollah is lying about–and a fact the BBC never reported.
It has just got a lot worse. A Georgian woman in the gun competition just gave a most repulsive display of collaborationism and lack of patriotism, doing everything in her power to show how dearly she loved her Russian competitor. And the BBC commentators were all over this like white on rice, saying that this repulsive display of quislingism and treason was “a demonstration of the power of sports to bring people together.” Never mind that maybe more than a thousand persons have already been killed by Russian aggressors; evidently, being dead, they do not count as “people”. I could have spat in the face of the blonde immoralist who seriously said that.
The BBC is still talking of ‘Russian peacekeepers’…
Cassandra: …other far more serious crisis coming up shortly, and we will need Russia’s help/approval Yep, I nearly choked on my toast at that one, too. I don’t think he was joking.
Cassandra wrote: I think you are confusing a limited NATO intervention in Georgia S/O causing a tactical retreat by the R/F forces
.. Russia would only use battlefield nukes if their territory was being overun.
In any conflict, there is no reason to suppose that the opposition will withdraw gracefully. This is specially so, as the conflict is on Russia’s border, in fact on territory that was part of the USSR not so long ago.
Again there is no reason to assume that battlefield nukes will not be used. You maybe right that they wont. However, it would be thoughtless for any NATO strategist to overlook such a scenario. War has a habit of going beyond one’s objectives, as the enemy has his own objectives.
Russia wouldnt be so stupid as to risk total destruction by using tactical nukes for a few thousand fake russian passport holders they aint that stupid!
As I’ve already pointed out, Russia is in a far stronger position then the West as far as deployment and use of nukes. The question should be, if the war escalates from battlefield nukes to strategic nukes, is the West “stupid enough to risk total destruction for Georgia”?. Bear in mind that in terms of human beings and wealth, Russia has much less to lose then the West – the MAD doctrine does not work anymore.
None of the above is likely to happen for the simple reason that any war planner will see that the potential for escalation is a possibility, and the risk is not worth any gain that may accrue.
Our greatest threat to peace is the development of nukes by Iran. Given its stated objective to destroy Israel, we need Russia’s cooperation in spiking the mullah’s ambitions.
On a minor front, we are still heavily involved in Afghanistan, and to an extent in Pakistan. What if Russia started to arm the Taleban and other Islamic groups, just to return the favour?
The talk of battlefield nukes is somewhat naive.Theses thinks are not neat little surgical weapons,but are indeed rather messy,depending on which way the wind is blowing.A brief look at the map shows that there are a significant number of countries in the area that could be affected,the NATO member Turkey for one.
“What if Russia started to arm the Taleban and other Islamic groups, just to return the favour?”
Or we started arming the Chechnyans ?
Yes the vile left scum are saying nothing about the commie twats invading and bombing Georgia.
George Galloway says it’s OK. Read what the bald fat ugly commie thinks here.
http://www.georgegalloway.com/
Peter
Exactly! What if we started to arm the Chechnyans.
This is what I mean – a conflict with a powerful state such as Russia, has the potential to spin way out of control.
Ukraine has threatened to refuse to allow Russian naval ships use ports on Ukrainian territory…
(ukraine being an ally of Georgia)
DP111,
That is exactly what they said about Hitler.Unfortunately no one knows the appetite of the Russian Bear.Move forward,Russia annexes one of the former Soviet Bloc satellites,one which has joined the EU,what then ?
Not a few former Soviet Bloc states are concerned about Russian adventurism Even neutral Sweden has called for a strong response.That should get Polly Toynbee on side.
Russia Today has reported that Ukrainians and Americans have been found amongst the Georgian dead, labelling them “mercenaries”.
The two “american” dead were said to be “black”.
of course this could be russian propaganda, but i thought i’d report it…
also the russian claims of the south ossetian city being “completely destroyed” is somewhat contradicted b the Russia Today footage – which just shows lots of blown out windows.
The Russian propaganda machine is in full flow on the blogs and in the papers.
david asks “Georgia may not be anywhere near perfect, but can any of you name any other country in the region that is any better?”
So lets take that one by the horns 7 mention Russia. Whether you like Putin or not it is ctystal clear that the majority of Russians do. The BBC may say that, bedaise the Russians didn’t vote for who we chose that this is “undemocratic” but that doesn’t make it so. Putin did not make himself “President for life”, he didn’t even alter the costitution to allow himself a 3rd term as he certainly could have. Granted that then serving as PM is a bit of a fiddle but perhaps not more of one than an 2 term President then running his wife.
The west did complain when the previous Georgian governemnt was re-elcted by a small majority, saying that the voting was dubious. They got their re-run & the opposition, fairly openly funded & managed by western intelligence won by over 90%. While western observers may have found that size of majority entirely reasonable O think we are entitled to a little suspicion.
Bottom line in that the Georgians killed 1,400 people out of a population of 70,000. This is a higher proportion than we lost in WW2 & was clearly an attempt to produce something similar to the western prganised genocide we saw in Krajina. Even were the Russians behaving far worse than they clearly are nobody who supported our criminality against Yugoslavia could ethicly issue a single word of criticism of Russoa.
“Bottom line in that the Georgians killed 1,400 people out of a population of 70,000.”
If that is true,the numbers are disputed.
“was clearly an attempt to produce something similar to the western prganised genocide we saw in Krajina.”
Nobody seems to give a reason why the Georgians would do that.
I see you have the party line all down pat.
This is about oil,the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan pipeline.
‘Bottom line in that the Georgians killed 1,400 people’
Are you seriously saying that the big bad Georgians are so skilled they killed every single person who died and that the O/s and the Russians are so incompetent, or kindly that they did not kill anyone? So all the bombing was done dropping soft cushions rather than explosives?
This is a horrible situation; it is also one that can affect all of us in the years coming. In fact it is so serious that it deserves better than you
Russia is screwed and they know it. The life expectancy has plummeted. They are a huge country with a massively falling population and a China next door with a massively growing population in these empty, oil rich areas. They have wasted the incredible skills and brilliance of their people. All they have got is oil. Without this one, diminishing resource they are in trouble. They have power now • oil and gas. But this is transitory. When the West gets other supplies or switch to greener power they will have nothing to sell. Then they new found power is over.
The Russians have disputes with the following,
China over the Amur and Ussuri confluence and in the Argun River, Japan over the islands of Etorofu, Kunashiri, Shikotan, and the Habomai group, Georgia of course, the Pankisi Gorge in the Akhmeti region and the Kodori Gorge in Abkhazia; Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Russia and Norway dispute their maritime limits in the Barents Sea and Russia’s fishing rights beyond Svalbard’s territorial limits within the Svalbard Treaty zone; various groups in Finland advocate restoration of Karelia (Kareliya) and other areas ceded to the Soviet Union following the Second World War, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania Ukraine, not forgetting the dispute with the US about the Bering Sea. So we’ve got many happy war filled years to come.
Do you really think that the Russians are the innocent party in all these disputes?
By the by Russia says it is so concerned with its own people (and we all believe that don’t we!!) that they can invade anywhere, kill anyone anywhere where there is a Russian population • London anyone?
In Iraq people cry that it is all about oil. In Georgia it is all about oil and a damaged Russian ego.
“You have a problem Bull,
In your analogy the Russians equal the Nazis,the Georgians are the Czechs.
Buggers up the poor little Russians angle doesn’t it?
Peter | 10.08.08 – 1:32 am”
No, like I said the lame analogy, and the question that followed were both yours. I obliged by answering, yet you refused to answer my more pertinent example of Kosovo.
Anyway, it’s a classic propaganda tactic to associate anyone you don’t support in a conflict with the Nazis. That’s a viable tactic for those skilled in propaganda. Unfortunately on the Biased BBC comments section it’s just the latest lame point from Peter, who isn’t confident enough in his own intellect (a compliment to you) to state his position on the US cluster bombing Serbians and recognising Kosovo.
“Bottom line in that the Georgians killed 1,400 people out of a population of 70,000. Neil Craig | Homepage | 10.08.08 – 1:31 pm”
Neil, the “1,500” have already been claimed somewhere in the comments above as the work of Russia.
It’s worth remembering that the pro-NATO loonies had no problems with Clinton’s claims of 100,000 slaughtered in Kosovo, and the massacres at the football stadium (all lies – anyone remember “operation Horseshoe” – Muah ha ha) and didn’t dispute the numbers at all.
However, when a proper war breaks out with indiscriminate shelling from the Georgians, and someone dares to claim 1,400 people killed, then the figure is dubious. You just can’t beat good old NATO propaganda. But it’s all sincere concern about human life in the west, isn’t it??
The Russians should bring in that cockney rogue O’Shea. He had fairytales galore for the receptive public.
It’s also worth noting, despite the hysterics above, that the BBC also referred to Georgians as “peacekeepers” despite the fact they were firing in anger as well.
“By the by Russia says it is so concerned with its own people (and we all believe that don’t we!!) that they can invade anywhere, kill anyone anywhere where there is a Russian population • London anyone? anon126 | 10.08.08 – 2:28 pm”
Great, I’m off to buy a tin hat and a pellet gun. I hope the cossacks don’t turn up as well because I can’t stand their dancing.
John Bull, now thats a very English name isnt it? But contrary to your name you seem to be very anti NATO I wonder where your loyalties lie? Obviously such sharp critisism of all western motives and loyal support for the motherland leads me to believe you are Russian, Perhaps FSB or diplomatic staff? Of course your english is near perfect so you could(not saying you are)be CND/stop the war/foreign office(HM)? Dont get me wrong, im not moaning but it would be helpful to say the least to find out where you are coming from.
You are right of course about the crazy and needless lying about kosovan ‘genocide’ when it was nothing of the sort, but I suppose because Clinton got away with that, Blair thought he could do the same with Iraq? 45mins anyone! Nothing wrong with going to war IF the justification is there but lying and bullshiting to force a war will always lead to problems. Of course the real causes of the Russo/Georgian conflict are yet to be proved but when it all comes out it will be very interesting?
John Bull | 09.08.08 – 10:01 pm |
No they attacked and shelled indiscriminately. If that was Kosovo you would be harping on about “ethnic cleansing” right now, but since the dead civillians are on the Russian side you couldn’t give a hoot.
You’re wrong. Georgia is not trying to kill ethnic Russians and replace them with ethnic Georgians. Osietta wants independence from both Georgia and Russia. Russia is trying to absorb Osietta back into the Motherland.
Georgia did not handle this properly at all, but they are concerned about Russia grasping for real estate, not about getting rid of non-ethnic Georgians. Your analogy is false.
I’m never happy about innocent civilian deaths in war. I don’t approve of the way Georgia is going about this either, but it’s not anything like the same thing as not caring about civilian deaths. Your attempt to smear my character is unfair here.
South Ossetian rebels never had any desire to invade Georgia, but Georgia does have an ambition to enter the region and bring the seperatists under control – only they miscalculated. You are trying to rewrite history as it is happening, but your opinions are based on gut reaction politics, and nothing else.
No. My opinions are based on historical fact. Your opinions seem to be based on an emotional response to politics, not mine. I agree that Georgia wants to regain some control over Osietta (the original attempt at independence was fairly bloody, and Georgia did not behave well), and I understand that this is where everyone gets the Kosovo parallel. That ends with Russia’s involvement, though. The Georgians are not going to do any ethnic cleansing like the Serbs did, so once again, your reasoning is false.
I actually thought of Russia as a potential US ally under Putin for a very long time, and I still don’t see them as the real threat everyone else seems to. I think China is much worse. So I’m not really reacting emotionally to an action by a perceived enemy to the US.
Russia wants to control the whole region. This is about much more than Georgia trying to keep Osettia from breaking away from it. Therein lies the difference. Just because Russia is now at odds with the US doesn’t make them the hero here, and just because Georgia is allied with the US doesn’t make them the bad guy, full stop. It doesn’t make them right here, either.
Both Russia and Georgia are wrong. But you wouldn’t know it from the BBC, or from you.
Neil Craig | Homepage | 10.08.08 – 1:31 pm |
So lets take that one by the horns 7 mention Russia. Whether you like Putin or not it is ctystal clear that the majority of Russians do.
I was referring to all the ex-satellites, really.
The BBC may say that, because the Russians didn’t vote for who we chose that this is “undemocratic” but that doesn’t make it so.
They say the same thing about the US. I don’t listen to them.
Putin did not make himself “President for life”, he didn’t even alter the costitution to allow himself a 3rd term as he certainly could have. Granted that then serving as PM is a bit of a fiddle but perhaps not more of one than an 2 term President then running his wife.
Putin still calls all the shots, so it’s just window dressing.
Bottom line in that the Georgians killed 1,400 people out of a population of 70,000. This is a higher proportion than we lost in WW2 & was clearly an attempt to produce something similar to the western prganised genocide we saw in Krajina. Even were the Russians behaving far worse than they clearly are nobody who supported our criminality against Yugoslavia could ethicly issue a single word of criticism of Russoa.
It was not a clear attempt at genocide. If Georgia really wanted to do genocide, why would they have basically left South Osettia alone for all these years? Have there been ongoing pogroms that we don’t know about? Have there been masses of ethnic Osettians expelled from Georgia? It doesn’t add up.
“You’re wrong. Georgia is not trying to kill ethnic Russians and replace them with ethnic Georgians. Your analogy is false. David Preiser (USA) | 10.08.08 – 3:47 pm”
The analogy works fine, unless you are a sucker for NATO lies about what happened in Kosovo, where the KLA were at war with the Serbs. And maybe you’ll provide some evidence for your assertion that Belgrade planned to replace Kosovans with Serbs.
“Russia is trying to absorb Osietta back into the Motherland.”
The problem you have is that the Ossetians were willing to fight and die to be part of Russia since Yeltsin was staggering around the Kremlin. Modern day Russia is no more reponsible for their desire than Britain is responsible for unionists in Northern Ireland wanting to remain part of Britain. The US funded the KLA too and played politics with their ambitions – so what?
“I’m never happy about innocent civilian deaths in war.”
Then why post the following nonsense and omit to mention their shelling was indiscriminate??
“Georgia attacked innocent separatists, none of whom had any support for Russia?” David Preiser (USA) | 09.08.08 – 9:39 pm”
And this:
“The Georgians are not going to do any ethnic cleansing like the Serbs did, so once again, your reasoning is false.”
Oh, I see. So Georgian shelling and targeting of civillians (claimed by Russians as ethnic cleansing) = OK.
Serbian war against US backed KLA: Clinton’s claims of 100,000 dead and numerous other lies = ethnic cleansing.
When it comes to ethnic cleansing. Don’t forget that the first thing the US government did when the Serbian army pulled out of Kosovo was to let the KLA back in to have their way with the Serbs – and they did. The Kosovo paralell has far more relevance than you would like to know. But, you’ll never feel that one in your gut, will you. How’s that for a character smear?
“The BBC may say that, because the Russians didn’t vote for who we chose that this is “undemocratic” but that doesn’t make it so.
They say the same thing about the US. I don’t listen to them.”
Not quite. The BBC say they don’t like the americans voting for Bush (& drd like them voting for Clinton & Gore) but they have never said that the US isn’t a demoracy because of it. Neither should they but the comparison with Russia’s election is clear.
If they killed 2% of the population in a few hours by indiscriminate shelling of civilians, or even anything close to that, the comparison with Krajina is apt & it was genocide. Croatia also “left Krajina alone” until they knew they could win. This is hardly proof that they didn’t “cleanse” that land. I don’t think it is reasonable to trust that the same was not being done again.
“No, like I said the lame analogy,”
Only a lame analogy to you.most others think it most apt
” and the question that followed were both yours. I obliged by answering, yet you refused to answer my more pertinent example of Kosovo.”
Why more pertinent,why not Tibet? No the point is that it is essential for the Russians to connect this to the bombing of Serbia to relieve Kosovo to cover its naked imperialism.
But you didn’t answer did you,you erected a straw man to deflect the obvious similarities to Russia and the Nazis.
Why does John Bull stick to the relentless ‘fixed menu’ of ‘who supports who’? One can quite easily see the absurdity & sheer wrongness of NATO supporting Kosovo against the Serbs – without needing automatically to throw your weight behind the Russians here.
“However, when a proper war breaks out with indiscriminate shelling from the Georgians, and someone dares to claim 1,400 people killed, then the figure is dubious. You just can’t beat good old NATO propaganda. But it’s all sincere concern about human life in the west, isn’t it??”
Yes these Georgians out gunned and outnumbered by the Russians.One would think the old Bear could do more than lift up her skirts and scream at the mouse running around her feet.
Bull why don’t you give us your name? It is obvious you aren’t from these parts,
your prattling about NATO gives you away,that and your lack of colloquial English.
Bod,
Kosovo is the Russians cover for legitimacy.
There are several memes from the comrades,
Kosovo.
Indiscriminate shelling.
Genocide.
NATO “lies”.
Russia the rescuer.
This is all about oil.
The NATO lies is the most interesting,since NATO hasn’t made any response,the US and the EU have sent representatives to try and broker a peace.From NATO nada!
Russia continues peaceful fraternal bombing in Georgia even though the Georgians have ceased military operations.
There must be some peaceful reason why Russia is trying to destroy an airfield in Georgia.Perhaps to obstruct Georgian troops returning from Iraq?
“Yesterday Georgian leaders claimed that the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan pipeline, which transports oil from the Caspian Sea to Turkey, had been attacked. But it is thought the bombs missed their target.
Their claims came after Russian jets struck deep into the territory of its tiny neighbour, killing civilians and ‘completely devastating’ the strategic Black Sea port of Poti, a staging post for oil and other energy supplies.
Reports last night also said that Russia had bombed the international airport in Tbilisi.”
is it really bad reporting or outright propaganda? Sunday news on BBC callled occupying Russian troops “peacekeepers” (strange contrast to Beeboids views of US / UK troops in Iraq), while in the next breath reporting on continuing exchanges of fire. Beeboids accusing Georgian troops of atrocities and had one unnamed and healthy looking unnamed and unchallenged individual tlaking about a whole nation being destroyed. There was a complete lack of evidence.
I do not know the truth about the situation, but one thing is for sure, I am not going to get it from the BBC.
Clearly beeboids share Putin’s view that a return to commnist dictatorship is desireable.
Of course Georgia is pro-American and supports George W. Bush. In the Beeb’s baised logic that makes Georgia the bad guys.
On the world stage I was very much anticipating Israel to attack Iran’s nuclear reactor shortly before the close of the US presidential elections. This has been on the back burner now for ages. I wonder if Russia knowing this will inevitably take place before November have dramatically raised the ante for precipitate actions on the world stage. After the recognition of “Kosovo”(in Serbia), all the jig-saw pieces seemed to fit neatly into place regarding Georgia. Clearly this was a well planned counter-measure to any Georgian “crackdown” as the BBC quaintly put it. How strange that one side can talk of genocide, bombing of hospitals, etc. and the BBC says:
“In response to the Georgian crackdown, Moscow sent armoured units across the border frontier.”
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7552012.stm#goback
Any US outrage now will be measured and muted, knowing that the next immanent bombing will have serious implications for Russian interests in Iran. US-Russian relations will probably be much more seriously maligned after an Israeli strike. Just musing but the way the US are reacting to this strikes me as choreographed down
johnj: ‘…choreographed down.’
Seems that way to me too. The kraut veto in Bucharest four months ago certainly affects American analysis; the conclusions will be similar to Russia’s.
The difference will be in the way the contempt shows: the US at the moment merely wants the EU to experience the flavor of its own cooking, whereas Russia wants to press its advantage directly. That difference is tactical more than fundamental, and will surely adapt to changing circumstances. The usual torrent of platitudinous crap pouring out of European capitals doesn’t count and will be ignored as usual.
As for the near future, got to guess. But it’s not likely that the US will push Nato at all, except maybe to obfuscate. That dog don’t hunt no more.
I don’t think the Nov. elections will have a massive effect on US foreign policy, unless fears of Hillary’s resurrection turn out to be real. Hillary thrives on conflict and manipulation and is very good at it.
Neil Craig | Homepage | 10.08.08 – 4:16 pm |
I was joking about the BBC and voting for Bush (slightly).
But this whole myth of ethnic cleansing must be put to rest:
http://www.eurasianet.org/departments/insight/articles/eav040207.shtml
Further, Georgia is essentially a different country now from the ex-Soviet hodgepodge it was when it first got independence. So it’s not even really fair or relevant to keep going on about how many people were killed in 1992.