72 Responses to Compare And Contrast

  1. ae1 says:

    Both items are about leaked information. Both, despite my own feelings, have a right to privacy.


  2. mikewineliberal says:

    Neither are remotely comparable. One is about data privacy; the other about a court injunction.


  3. Grant says:

    Mikewine 9:47

    But the point is that, in the perverted little minds of the beeboids, the BNP are worse than child-killers.

    By the way, an article in today’s Daily Telegraph, slagging off the licence fee. Judging by the comments so far, not all of the British public are happy with it !


  4. Anonymous says:

    Mike there was a high court injunction preventing the BNP list being disclosed therefore they are comparable.

    I wonder how a list of the dwindling Nu Lab membership or indeed Muslims being leaked would be reported?


  5. Richard Lancaster says:

    By the way, an article in today’s Daily Telegraph, slagging off the licence fee. Judging by the comments so far, not all of the British public are happy with it !
    Grant | 21.11.08 – 10:06 am | #

    Telegraph online commenters in anti-BBC moan shocker.


  6. Grant says:

    Richard 10:06

    Just more proof that the BBC is biased. Guardian readers don’t complain about it !


  7. The Random Punter says:

    The BNP are the only party in favour of mass nationalisation, even more state control than we already have and a politicised Police force. I would have thought this would have appealed to the average Beeboid.

    Granted, their foreign policy’s a bit racist, or at best isolationist, but don’t discount some people being disenfranchised Old Labourites trying to rerun the Kinnock years all over again. There are both geographical and political links between the BNP and Old Labour.

    Whatever the case, horrible as they may be (and, unlike the Beeboids, I hate them BOTH because they attract skinhead racist nutjobs AND because their domestic policies are those of the far left), they are a legal political party and as such their members have the right to go about their business without being bothered or sacked.

    We do live in a free society, don’t we?


  8. P Jackson says:

    “There are both geographical and political links between the BNP and Old Labour. “

    Most early Fabian intellectuals had racial attitudes at least as extreme than those of today’s BNP. For example, here is an extract from a New Statesman article from last century: :

    “Into the scarcity thus created in particular districts, in particular sections of the labour market, or in particular social strata, there rush the offspring of the less thrifty, the less intellectual, the less foreseeing of races and classes – the unskilled casual labourers of our great cities, the races of Eastern or Southern Europe, the negroes, the Chinese – possibly resulting, as already in parts of the USA, in such a heterogeneous and mongrel population that democratic self-government, or even the effective application of the policy of a national minimum of civilised life, will become increasingly unattainable. If anything like this happens, it is difficult to avoid the melancholy conclusion that, in some cataclysm that it is impossible for us to foresee, that civilisation characteristic of the Western European races may go the way of half a dozen other civilisations that have within historic times preceded it; to be succeeded by a new social order developed by one or other of the coloured races, the negro, the kaffir or the Chinese.”
    Sidney and Beatrice Webb • from The Great Alternative, New Statesman, 20/8/1913 (Quoted in ‘Fabianism and Colonialism’ by Francis Lee).

    Don’t expect a Radio 4 documentary on this any time soon.


  9. adam says:

    Its is a brilliant comparison, as good as the Barack Obama one you didnt post.

    It is hard to believe the BNP one is a reals news article. It reads like a newspaper op ed


  10. The Random Punter says:

    P Jackson, very true, and much more recently than 1913. As I mention in the linked post, you only have to go back to the 1970s and even the early 1980s to find the parties’ positions over Europe reversed, with Labour opposing any European integration and the Conservatives generally in favour. Enoch Powell’s “rivers of blood” (sic) speech would have resonated more with Labour voters than Conservatives.

    As for the articles, typical BBC journalism. They seem incapable of presenting the bare facts without putting their own slant on things. Even in the most simple report.


  11. frankos says:

    the BNP has had some success in a lot of white Labour traditional northern communities who feel betrayed by NuLalalabour. In the long term Labour might well end up rootless as it loses the union vote–


  12. David Preiser (USA) says:

    I think calling the group who released the info on child killers a “hate campaign” is bizarre. Really poor choice of words.

    As for the BNP story, how charming that the BBC is making an association between the Cross of St. George and racism. I suppose it’s supposed to be the equivalent of the Confederate flag now.


  13. Random says:

    And which one mentioned the court order? Both sets of information were subject to such.

    The release of the BNP information did break a court order specifically sought by the BNP in response to a threat of releasing the list on the internet. It also broke data protection laws which would not apply to the names of the killers. No mention of that.

    I am not convinced the release of the killers’ names (which I shall not repeat, in case this site does not wish to publish them, although I have had no trouble finding them) does breach any court order, despite the BBC report. The court order there is against reporting. Are social networking websites reporting?


  14. Bobby BNP says:

    Just think, we could hijack a plane and end up in free housing with free handouts for the rest of our life or we could take part in terrorist activities, murder, rob and beat people senseless and then take our rightful place in Government.

    But no, silly us, we enter into the democratic process, produce a manifesto that details our policies and campaign on those policies in order to obtain a mandate from the people.

    Democracy in action – people don’t vote for us, our policies do not matter as they will be consigned to the waste bin, people vote for us then those policies are applied at the behest of the majority.

    Am I missing something?

    What monsters we are.


  15. Northnorthwester says:

    Wonderful, wonderful sense of proportion the Beebs have, as do all their Lefty pals.


  16. The Random Punter says:

    Bobby BNP

    I won’t pretend I like your party’s policies or that I wish you to succeed, but I agree with every word you’ve just written. No, delete what I put in the first sentence, I DO hope there’s a surge in support for you after this. Just a small one, mind, to teach the illiberal scum who infest our goverment and media a lesson.

    I hope that no harm comes to those on the list – and by that I mean loss of job and livelihood as much as the other stuff that’s been on the news today.

    The BBC and its chums think that they can destroy something because they don’t like it. They are blatantly glad that there is some sort of “backlash”. It’s sickening.

    I may not like your views, but I’d defend to the death your right to have them and express them. I don’t like smoking, but I oppose(d) the smoking ban; I don’t like the BNP, but they have every right to be treated equally to other minority parties.

    Just another example of the Government and the BBC eroding our liberties for which so many brave people sacrificed their lives.


  17. The Cattle Prod of Destiny says:

    Bobby BNP | 21.11.08 – 5:39 pm |
    What monsters we are.



  18. AndrewSouthLondon says:

    The left have always needed people to fight – it helps maintain their otherwise house of cards ideology. So “anti-racism” and attacking the “far right”. ” Neo nazis” are bogeymen desperately needed by Leftists. I haven’t noticed any BNP-run concentration camps in the UK, nor have I noticed the BNP invade any neighbouring countries, but hey, when you need a bogeyman don’t let facts get in the way. No, “neo-nazis” is a good Leftist Bogeyman, because they can’t actually bring themselves to discuss any issues that incense ordinary people.

    The cry “racist” is the same as 1950’s cry “communist” – todays Left is the new Right.

    Personally I would like to know how many card-carrying members of the Labour party are employed at the BBC, and how many Muslims are employed in its news departments. When Greg Dyke said the BBC was hideously white he was refering to himself.

    If an organisation had, for fifty years, advertised almost exclusively its jobs in say The Gay News,what would its workforce look like? “Gogeous!” I hear you say.


  19. mikewineliberal says:

    Racism defines the BNP. Read their constitution. They are the latest in a long line of dross going back to mosley through Neo-naxi goons like tyndall and now griffin. it is to this country’s immense credit that facism has never established a foothold here.


  20. AndrewSouthLondon says:

    MWL: By “racism” do you man objecting to the Africanisation of large swathes of the UK? Probably. The usual “thought police” line. You do know that the many tribes of Africa hate each other with a passion that makes “white racism” kindergarden. That in London West Indian origin gangs are in battle with East African origin gangs. But then that would spoil your rather smug argument that its about skin colour. “Tribalist” doesn’t kind of have the same “off the tongue ” excuse for thinking. Come down to South London and watch this country change before your very eyes. Impress me with your postcode.


  21. modern tribalist says:

    Andrewsouthlondon “impress me with your postcode” lol

    come on mwl, show us your postcode.

    me SE13 – retired


  22. Richard Lancaster says:

    The cry “racist” is the same as 1950’s cry “communist” – todays Left is the new Right.

    Personally I would like to know how many card-carrying members of the Labour party are employed at the BBC, and how many Muslims are employed in its news departments.
    AndrewSouthLondon | Homepage | 21.11.08 – 8:45 pm | #

    And so you advocate a….witchhunt. Genius!


  23. Boy Blue says:

    it is to this country’s immense credit that facism has never established a foothold here.

    Let’s see, off the top of my head we have:

    a) Increasing rule by an un-elected and unaccountable political class

    b) Unwanted and un-voted for social engineering on a nation wide scale

    c) All criticism of said unwanted and un-voted for social engineering publicly suppressed

    d) A politicised police force

    e) Surveillance cameras everywhere

    f) Id cards on their way

    g) State indoctrination in schools

    h) Relentless state propaganda on the state run media

    i) Officially state sanctioned discrimination (so called ‘positive’ discrimination against the native population)

    j) And now a campaign of intimidation against a legal party.

    It may not be fascism, but it sure aint anything approaching a healthy democracy either.

    In fact it’s a profoundly unhealthy status quo none of us should be willing to accept any longer.


  24. Alistair Darling 90 says says:

    The left wing would rather hug a peado than afford any rights to those who oppose there marxist ruination of the UK.
    Says it all really.

    A few months in prison and “lady P” will have a new identity and police protection for life at taxpayers expense. Perhaps the left wing do-gooders would like to have a whip round for her and leave us hard pressed taxpayers in the private sector to continue subsidising Gordon Brown’s mission to save the world.


  25. xlr says:

    “Come down to South London and watch this country change before your very eyes. Impress me with your postcode”

    lol, recovering SE6 here!


  26. Beeb sucks says:

    I’m really big on privacy and I really hate it when other people invade my privacy…

    My wife would never have found out about me seeing that hooker every week if she hadn’t read my diary!

    It just isn’t right…


  27. speedy says:

    The names & addresses of Baby P’s killers (from the original committal story) were still on the BBC website until a few days ago, linked to from the reports on the judgement, so I find their detached report on the facebook sites puzzling. Were the BBC in contempt?


  28. HSLD says:

    The cry “racist” is the same as 1950’s cry “communist” – todays Left is the new Right

    Venona says otherwise.


  29. P Jackson says:

    Racism defines the BNP. …. They are the latest in a long line of dross going back to mosley

    No, no, much further back than that. Indeed, you may well be confusing Oswald Mosley with Karl Marx (they were both Leftists, after all).

    Karl Marx to Engels. “The Jewish nigger Lassalle who, I’m glad to say, is leaving at the end of this week, has happily lost another 5,000 talers in an ill-judged speculation. The chap would sooner throw money down the drain than lend it to a `friend’, even though his interest and capital were guaranteed. In this he bases himself on the view that he ought to live the life of a Jewish baron…. And on top of it all, the sheer gluttony and wanton lechery of this `idealist’! It is now quite plain to me – as the shape of his head and the way his hair grows also testify – that he is descended from the negroes who accompanied Moses’ flight from Egypt (unless his mother or paternal grandmother interbred with a nigger). Now, this blend of Jewishness and Germanness, on the one hand, and basic negroid stock, on the other, must inevitably give rise to a peculiar product. The fellow’s importunity is also nigger-like”. London, 30 July 1862; quoted in Marx and Engels Collected Works


  30. modern tribalist says:

    P jackson. I see your Marx and I raise you Ghandi:
    “We believe as much in the purity of race as we think they do, only we believe that they would best serve these interests, which are as dear to us as to them, by advocating the purity of all races, and not one alone. We believe also that the white race of South Africa should be the predominating race.”


    “Kaffirs are as a rule uncivilized – the convicts even more so. They are troublesome, very dirty and live almost like animals.”


  31. mikewineliberal says:

    Andrew – by racist, I mean a party which restricts members by race. have you read the constituion? do so before you trot out your glib garbage.

    postcode? I live near you and your clapping seals.


  32. clapping seal says:

    mwl by racist do you mean like the National Black Police Association who also restrict members by race? Are the NBPA and the BNP eaqually beyond the pale?


  33. Peter says:

    Nifty. This one should be fun…. unless drowned out by the sound of tumbleweed.

    Or… get ready for a master debatory comeback that doesn’t actually have any point.

    Abusing Orwell, maybe some are just more ‘racist’ (in the ways they want it to be defined and applied) than others.

    That’s the trouble with standards. Start demanding more for yourself than the rest, and they can end up causing ‘problems’.


  34. mikewineliberal says:

    One is a political party seeking national office; The other is a staff association. The npba does not anyway restrict membership by race.

    You’ll need to do better if you want a pilchard.


  35. Allan@Oslo says:

    Tell me, mikewineliberal, whether you believe that whites should have the rights of association which blacks and ‘Asians’ have?


  36. clapping seal says:

    Mwl take a look at this

    “Monmouth MP David Davies said it was a matter of principle to urge the National Black Police Association to let white officers be full members.”

    The difference between the BNP and the NBPA is that one is a group of facist, racist thugs* and the other is, as you say, a political party seeking office

    *see the article. Davis needed a security escort to leave the hall.

    Do I get my pilchard yet?


  37. Grimer says:

    As always, let me state that I am no supporter of the racist/old Labour/socialist/BNP.

    What I always find disturbing about the BBC/media/politician’s attitudes to the BNP, is the ‘fascist’ argument they use to justify their behaviour.

    The Nazis (fascist) banned the Communist Party and prevented members from holding public office – e.g. police, teachers, etc.

    NuLabour has banned the Police from being BNP members. How is this any different? They scream fascist at the BNP (which I think they are), but then act in a totally fascist way themselves. Are they totally incapable of appreciating their own hypocrisy?

    The so-called ‘anti-fascist league’ are exactly the same. They cry out for the BNP to be banned, but fail to see that this is itself fascistic.

    Perhaps I’m being naive? Maybe they do understand, but consider it to be a necessary evil to prevent the BNP from gaining mass support? But surely, if the BNP are capable of gaining mass support, then that is what democracy is all about, warts and all?

    Anyway, lets keep things simple:

    1) Fuck the BNP
    2) Fuck the Beep
    3) Fuck the LibLabCon stitch up of our so-called democracy.


  38. Grimer says:

    Clapping Seal:

    Brilliant link, I used to argue with my housemate about that very thing. I always said it was a racist organisation and my black housemate claimed it wasn’t. The need for a police escort from a police conference, speaks volumes about the ‘brave boys in blue’ (aka thugs of all races).


  39. Peter says:

    clapping seal | 22.11.08 – 7:27 pm | #

    The multi-culti, multi-standard police’s lot is not a happy one.

    I think now I can understand the hiring policies of such as the BBC, which evidently pass muster with the box-ticking on paper types who also reckon Haringey is doing a bang-up job on child welfare from what the PowerPoints suggest.

    Maybe the cleaners whose plight Mr. Ross once so charmingly referred to are ‘associate members’, so thats OK. Maybe it’s a case of ‘some are more members than others’, which kind of works on other levels, too.

    Not practicing what you preach seems to be a feature of many organisations and those who support them, especially with the rather tired ‘but this is different… I approve of that one and not this’ school of debate.


  40. mikewineliberal says:

    Good link indeed. Have a bucketful.

    It transpires the NPBA doesn’t have individual members (it’s an association of associations) and its constitution does not preclude membership on race. But a bit of googling shows its chairman is Ali Dilzaei (sp?), it has recently had its funding removed by the HO, and clearly some of its associate members do discriminate by race. So I am not going to defend it. I think the less famous David Davies was right to do
    what he did.

    Any organisation that defines its membership by race is in my view pretty reprehensible.

    But the BNP is of a different order as it is a national political party seeking political office; and one with a very unpleasant political lineage and links.

    Freedom of speech though is sacrosanct, so they shouldn’t be banned, and indeed they are not.

    What is clear to me though (and doesn’t appear clear to some on here) is that the BNP are a loathsome bunch of goons, who deserve to have opprobrium heaped upon them by any right thinking individual.

    The left/right thing is a red herring. Extremist parties (BNP, SWP,) and individuals (stalin/hitler) have more in common than those who occupy either side of the centre (our mainstream parties). If you head to the extremes, you head to totalitarianism; and the liberal settlement comes under challenge.


  41. Peter says:

    Can’t fault most of that.

    I do, however, still stall on what the definition of a ‘right thinking individual’ is, and who decides what such folk may be and how much ‘they’ and their views get promoted over others. Especially by those I may not agree with, even though paid for by me.

    One man’s wrong thinking individual is another right-voting goon, etc.

    Voltaire said it better, though it appears it is not so clear to others, especially those in government, the national media and their often rather selective apologists.

    As to the latter, come The Night of The Long Bloggers, imagine if, just by posting on a site like this, a fully paid-up nickname was deemed ‘part’ of the site, guilty by no more than association, and held to account.

    First they came for my IP address….


  42. clapping seal says:

    mwl, in all my years of arguing with liberals (I have been in recovery now for about 7 years) that is about the most gracious climb down I have ever witnessed. Have a pilchard.

    If you did not realise the extent to which ethnic minority tribalism, as displayed by the NBPA, is rife in Britain, then I can understand why you might find the expression of indigenous tribal instincts,as displayed by the BNP, a bit shocking too. But now you DO know… can you join the dots yourself or do you want me to help?

    The NBPA is a highly influencial group within the police force…The NBPA is “reprehensible”…the NBPA gets a consistently easy ride from the BBC…the BBC should have been more challenging to the NBPA in the past over its racism…the BBC is, in this instance at least, biased.

    Now for your second pilchard will you acknowledge this instance of bias.


  43. Allan@Oslo says:

    I consider the policies pursued by the leftist clique which runs the country and its institutions to be extremist. The main ones are:

    absorption of the UK within the EU leading to dissolution of the UK as a sovereign state with sovereign powers,

    the open-door immigration policy leading to the indigenous population becoming a minority within 50 years,

    the consequence of the above leading to gross over-population of these islands and decline in the quality of life.

    This is more extreme than anything proposed by the BNP. There is also one important fact to bear in mind: the above extremisms are being brought about right now!


  44. adam says:

    The EU is extremist, they undermine democracy whenever they can.
    The BBC are a loathsome bunch of goons forcing people to pay them a living for dribbling ignorant biased nonsense all over the airwaves.

    The BNP force nobody to pay for them so right thinking individuals have a choice.

    Burn the BBC


  45. adam says:

    “Asian stock markets rise on hopes that Obamas election victory will mean democratic economic policy in America”

    Words to that effect. Ignorant, sycophantic, biased nonsense.
    They would be ashamed to post it on left wing blogs as its so servile. BBC slaps it on the website and calls it news.

    GOONS! Fact

    When oil prices are touching 150 a barrel, from their warm comfy London studios BBC talking heads broadcast all over Britain that oil prices will stay this high forever and we are going to have to shut up moaning about Labour and accept it.
    Blatant agenda driven biased drivel with no supporting evidence going against all educated peoples assessment.

    GOONS! Fact


  46. mikewineliberal says:

    clapping seal – I think we’ve corresponded before, you under a different moniker. You recommended liberal doses of LGF for my affliction. kill or cure I think.

    Not remotely a climbdown, as much as a recognition in the light of your link that the npba is, despite its constitution, not in practice as honourable an organisationas i’d first thought. I stand corrected

    I note though that you article you reference rather belies the idea that “the NBPA gets a consistently easy ride from the BBC”. You keep your pilchard!

    The point remains though that the bnp is a distinctively pernicious and racist force in british party politics, whose ideological forebears this country lost a lot of people fighting. For a site that is quick to attack, I find the kid gloves treatment the bnp receives very disturbing.


  47. David Preiser (USA) says:

    mikewineliberal | 23.11.08 – 5:09 pm |

    The point remains though that the bnp is a distinctively pernicious and racist force in british party politics, whose ideological forebears this country lost a lot of people fighting. For a site that is quick to attack, I find the kid gloves treatment the bnp receives very disturbing.

    I think “kid gloves treatment” is not only a gross misrepresentation of what’s going on here, but is a tacit accusation of racism and BNP support.


  48. adam says:

    Of course it is. He knows what he is doing.


  49. clapping seal says:

    mwl, for the record we have not corresponded before as far as I know. I certainly would not hold an opinion as easily pigeonholed as an LGF reader.

    Why do you say, “the npba is, despite its constitution, not in practice as honourable an organisationas i’d first thought”?

    What do you mean “despite its constitution”? I know no more than what David Davies MP said in the BBC article:

    “the association policy of denying full membership to white police officers could be viewed as racism,” said Mr Davies.”

    Are you suggesting the NBPA has a policy at odds with its constitution? If so do you have any evidence for this?

    And as far as support for the BNP goes – wicked, nasty, evil and facist. Happy now?


  50. mikewineliberal says:

    Happy. A distressingly high number of people who post here would disagree though.

    i’ve clearly mistaken you for someone else. it was the 7 yr/recovering liberal schtick that reminded me of somee else.

    The point, and it is a minor one, is that the npba does not preclude anyone from membership based on ethnicity. Clearly though some of its member bodies do.