When it comes to a concise analysis of the situation in Afghanistan, who better fpr the BBC to turn to than….Paddy Ashdown! Argh! I listened to he whose eyes never quite open being interviewed earlier this morning and it became clear that the reason the BBC like Ashdown is because he, like them, believes a military victory is not enough to defeat the Taliban. It appears we will need to talk directly to them and help win– yip — their hearts and minds.
MORE HEARTS AND MINDS.
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More US troops to Afghanistan!!
What else can we expect from that warmonger neocon in the White House!!
Just listen to the BBC on Today as they downplay this story, in a way that they just never would if Dubya rather than The One was commander-in-chief.
“Paddy Pants-Down”
One of the greatest newspaper headline ever, surpassed only by the New York Post’s “Ike Beats Tina to Death” from a couple of years ago.
How remiss of the BBC to interview Paddy Ashdown – ex-SBS counter-insurgeny expert, High Representative for Bosnia and Herzegovina, and the un’s chosen representative in afghanistan – to opine on this matter. Perhaps it should have turned to commander in chief of the 101st Chairbourne, David Vance
Positions once held is no guarantee that their ideas will be moronic or out of touch with reality.
Mailman
MWL 8:48
But, I am sure the BBC could have found someone with similar experience to Paddy with the opposite views. Just in the interests of balance and to avoid accusations of impartiality or bias.
The BBC are not interested in balance, they are interested in brainwashing the masses.
Grant | 18.02.09 – 9:16 am |
The balanced view would be we should pull out. Hearts and minds is just a tactic as part of the military campaign.
A balanced view would be to prosecute the war through until victory is achieved. The reality is that withdrawing now would be handing a significant victory to islamic terrorism.
Of course these views would be against the very fibre of your being, since the left has conditioned you to surrender as soon as the tough get going.
I mean, that is at least, or was, the democrat party strategy for Iraq wasnt it. Surrender now, blame it all on bush and then take power at home at the expense of victory in Iraq.
Mailman
BTW, anyone found anything on Al Beebs site about this (considering they were the only MSM outlet allowed in to the gathering)?
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/32816_Islamic_Scholars_with_Fists_Firmly_Clenched_Meet_in_Istanbul_to_Plot_Murder
Mailman
mailman | 18.02.09 – 9:55 am
There are plenty on the right who think we should pull out. Our friend Martin for one. I think we should stay and win. ditto in Iraq. But hearts and minds will need to be a tactic if we are to win. Not sure whether David’s “kill them all” strategy would attract the support of any sensible person.
Ask, and yee shall receive;
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7895485.stm 🙂
Mailman
MWL,
There were plenty who thought Iraq was a lost cause.
Of course they didnt count on a leader with backbone actually leading the way and delivering another Iraqi victory to America.
Had Obama and the other loons on the left had their way, America would have withdrawn from Iraq, given islamic terrorism the victory it was fighting for and pretty much destabalised the world (like Carter did with Iran in the 70’s) and created a problem for the next Republican president to solve.
Mailman
The BBC are not interested in balance, they are interested in brainwashing the masses.
Absolutely.
However the trick is understanding that the above fact has always been the case, since the day the BBC broadcast its first program.
Another thing to understand about the BBC is who and what exactly the BBC does its brainwashing for.
It most surly is not the short, medium, or long term interests of the British people. Whoever much these people may have convinced themselves that it is.
It is not now and never has been any particular political party, however much it may seem to have always been the Labour Party. This because the Labour Party gets its agenda’s from the same place the BBC does. Which is also almost entirely the same place the Conservative Party gets its main agendas from.
It may be difficult for the general public to understand that the people who ultimately control our country are a rather vicious and completely dishonest cross between communists and fascists, such is the nature of long term brainwashing.
However this is self apparently the case never the less.
All you have to do to understand this, is to look where we are now. Know that the establishment through bodies such as The RIIA and The MOD spend countless millions working out long term strategies and then spend more countless millions implementing them without our knowledge. The civil, public and secret services, BBC/MSM and our controlled political parties are of course the methods by which this is done.
This country is a BANK, owned and controlled by the richest people living on this planet. The BBC is their mouthpiece.
THEREFORE
If you like this country,the world, and where it is going, you now know who to congratulate.
If you now hate this country, the world and where it is now very obviously going, you now know who is really to blame.
So Pants-down wants to talk to the Taliban? Well he could always invite them home to his house for a few days. Have a good heart to heart and a stroll around the neighbourhood. After all, they’re just a wonderful gang of friends that anyone would be proud to host.
Actually I think we should get out of Afghanistan. A bucket of instant sunshine tipped on Tora Bora in 2001 would have sorted out BinLiner who by the way is sitting happily in Pakistan not Afghanistan.
Has anyone here watched Ross Kemp in Afghanistan?
All our soldiers seem to do is walk into ambushes, exchange a few rounds, get pinned down for a few hours and the whole thing ends up with a large bomb being dropped on a mud hut.
It’s utter nonsense. One British soldier’s life is worth more than every Muslim on the planet.
If you want to make the UK safe kick out anyone with a bushy beard and start cracking skulls in places like Bradford.
Problem solved.
We didn’t let Germans and Japanese walk around London during WW2 so why so we let Muslims do it?
Yeah again, I don’t see why this story has achieved promenence here. Paddy Pants Down has experience in this field, and I don’t see what he said wrong. Of course defeating the taleban is the priority, but next we do need to win hearts and minds.A lot of the Afghans don’t see us as liberators, they see us as conquerers or invaders. We have to convince them otherwise. A lot of Afghans make a living off the heroin trade – its their way of life, and they can’t see why we kick up so much of a stink over stopping the poppyfields. It’s about making them realise that what they do, their livelihood, is feeding drug epidemics around the world. This is all part of heart and minds, and I fail to see what the problem is.
Abandon Ship, Obama’s plan to send 17,000 troops was headline on the 10pm news. and theyve been discussing it a lot of 24 news this morning, no one is ‘downplaying’ anything.
Martin,
I believe the problem with Britains involvement is not enough boots on the ground. That is why, my dear boy, they keep on walking in to ambushes, simply because they cant do what the Americans do, saturate areas and kill every bad guy they find.
Then again, unfortunately we have form on this. Look at Basra, probably a hundred times worse than Afghanistan YET it took the Americans to sort it out (without telling the Poms what they were doing).
Mailman
How remiss of the BBC to interview Paddy Ashdown – ex-SBS counter-insurgeny expert, High Representative for Bosnia and Herzegovina, and the un’s chosen representative in afghanistan – to opine on this matter. Perhaps it should have turned to commander in chief of the 101st Chairbourne, David Vance
mikewineliberal | 18.02.09 – 8:48 am | #
Grant:
MWL 8:48
But, I am sure the BBC could have found someone with similar experience to Paddy with the opposite views. Just in the interests of balance and to avoid accusations of impartiality or bias.
Grant | 18.02.09 – 9:16 am | #
Errr no! Anyone who has had Sir Paddy’s experience will have Sir Paddy’s views because, in order to have got into the positions from which Sir Paddy got his experience, one could only have Sir Paddy’s views to begin with. It’s a perfect, closed-loop system.
Mailman,
thats a little selective isnt it? the americans only sorted out the very problem they created. it was their war, they cleaned up their mess. its not like britain caused the problems in iraq. rumsfield wanted to do the war on the cheap, with fewer troops. this strategy was clearly a failure, and then bush had to swallow his pride, do the sensible thing, and commit a lot more troops.
you make it sound like a hollywood moive – proud american hero racing in to help his useless, but well intentione, ally.
We didn’t let Germans and Japanese walk around London during WW2 so why so we let Muslims do it?
Martin | 18.02.09 – 11:18 am | #
Do you prefer internship or deportation of british muslims?
internment
mikewineliberal | 18.02.09 – 12:27 pm
Internment surely?
Internship is a left-liberal euphemism for “available for oral sex”.
MWL 9:32
No, there are many people, including politicians and current and former military personnel who believe we should stay in Afghanistan.
So, if the BBC were really impartial, they would balance Ashdown’s view with the contrary view, but they don’t because they always lean towards opinions which support their own. It is called bias.
Mailman 10:09
Thanks for that link. I can only assume that the BBC reported this to demonstrate the new, apparent ,Arab/Turkish solidarity over
Gaza and this counterbalanced the calls for Jihad, in the BBC’s calculation.
Who said:
get them by the balls and their hearts & minds will follow
Was it:
a. Chuck Colson
b.John Wayne
c. David Vance
d. LBJ?
Grant | 18.02.09 – 12:35 pm
But isn’t Ashdown’s view we should stay in?
Tom | 18.02.09 – 12:32 pm
Yep. Realised my mistake!
Allan 12:14
Yes , good point. My God ( or should I say, Allah, Allah ?) , you are even more cynical than I am !
Had a quick read of Mailman’s BBC link:
In closed meetings after sessions delegates focussed on the creation of a “third Jihadist front” – the first two being Afghanistan and Iraq. The intensity of the Israeli attack had “awakened all Muslims,” Mr Awajy claimed.
…..
Mr Nazzal [senior Hamas leader] told his audience: “Don’t worry about casualties.”
…..
To laughter in the audience, another speaker noted that twice as many babies were born as children were killed during the war.
What a delightful group of people these Muslims are…
Tom
LBJ, I believe?
Grimer, the last time that you heard about a white christian man on the news comitting violence or murder, did you think, ‘What a delightful group of people these christians are…’
I bet you didn’t. So why do when it’s a Muslim?
Gus 2:11
I think you should re-read what you have just posted and think about it !
you know exactly what i’m asking you, so why won’t you answer it? worried you will be exposed as prejudiced? or just realising that you have no basis to make such a claim?
“rumsfield wanted to do the war on the cheap, with fewer troops. this strategy was clearly a failure, and then bush had to swallow his pride, do the sensible thing, and commit a lot more troops.”
Inaccurate.The plan was not to leave a big footprint on Iraq. Secondly the nature of the conflict had changed from conventional warfare to insurgency operations.The heavily armour divisions were being replaced by divisions Like the Mountain Divisions.The “Surge” involved a change to COIN operations.It was the kind of troops and warfare that General Petraeus initiated in Iraq.It wasn’t simply more,but different.
Gus,
Not quite sure why you are defending the indefensible.
The simple fact is, the meeting in Turkey was nothing more than an opportunity to continue to hate Israel, the West and everything to do with these two.
Tell me, why arent you asking why these 200 clerics didnt spend the entire conference talking about ways of improving the lives of the peoples from their own countries instead of talking about ways of dieing for their religion?
Mailman
Garden,
Further on what you said. Only two forces in the world could have transitioned from an out and out combat footing to a counter insurgency footing…and neither of those are UK’s armed forces.
Mailman
mailman,
who do you think I am defending?
and we’ll take it that I was right about Grant, seeing as he hasn’t replied, and no one else has attempted to clarify what he meant. which was that he thinks all muslims are terrorists.
Garden Trash
why did the war turn into a counter insurgency? is it because the US/UK didn’t plan for post invasion? because they assumed after saddam was gone, everything would be rosy?
and yes they changed strategy – after what, 2 years of anarachy and civil war? took their time didnt they.
I take it mailman assumes/wants to think that i am defending the jihadists….no, where on earth did you get that from? The problem i have is with grant, who claims that these jihadists are somehow typical of all muslims. he implied that cos these guys are bad, so are all muslims.
and i simply asked him if he then hated all white christians after he saw a news report about a white christian committing murder or terrorism. what about white supremacists? or the timothy mcveigh lunatics – does their behaviour imply the entire white race shares their views?
yeah exactly, the IRA don’t mean all catholics are terrorists.
Gus Haynes | 18.02.09 – 3:21 pm
You seem to be confusing race and religion by counterposing “Muslim” and “White”.
A better analogy would be: if you saw a White Supremacist killing a black giy, would you think badly of all White Supremacists?
And my answer would be: Yes.
Gus 3:16
I was just rushing out when I made my last post so it had to be quick.
I think there is a world of a difference between an individual white christian man who has committed a murder, whether for racial or religious reasons or not, and a worldwide movement, based on a religion, and dedicated to committing Genocide against one people and terrorism against everyone and which carries out its threats.
Don’t you ?
Gus 3:21
When have I ever claimed all muslims are bad ?
My wife is a muslim , as are my in-laws and they are very good people.
It may be that I have more direct , personal experience of these matters than even you do !
Gus,
Wrong again.
“why did the war turn into a counter insurgency? is it because the US/UK didn’t plan for post invasion? because they assumed after saddam was gone, everything would be rosy?”
You can’t plan for wars,you can only lay out a plan of your intentions,that gets altered by the enemy in very short order.
One the left denied the the activities of al Qaeda in Iraq,even though Zarqawi was there during the rule of Saddam.The Democrat party and the anti-war factions world wide did their utmost to deny AQ was behind much of the insurgency.The Democrats were trying to surrender from the day it looked like the Coalition was winning.
Secondly,there has been a proxy war with Iran,a war that could not be admitted,again for political reasons.
Just like the Viet Cong the insurgents drew streangth from political opposition to the war by western anti-war groups and in particular the Democrats and the Us MSM.Every bombing and outrage was calculated to get front page in the media.
So please don’t use the half arsed meme of there being no post invasion plan.There were several.If you do,you are obliged to put forward your plan.
“Grimer, the last time that you heard about a white christian man on the news comitting violence or murder, did you think, ‘What a delightful group of people these christians are…’
I bet you didn’t. So why do when it’s a Muslim?”
Why does it have to be a “white” Christian? And why do you capitalise Muslim,but not Christian? We can feel the bias.
You still won’t answer the question…its simple enough.
Your post at 12.57 said ”What a delightful group of people these Muslims are…”
what did you mean to say then? did you mean to say that all muslims are as bad as the terrorists? and my point remains; no one judges all christians cos of catholic IRA terrorists, so why do you do it for muslims?
and the capitalisation wasn’t intentional, don’t get paranoid on me…
garden trash,
yep the US army, best in the world, doesn’t plan wars. they just fire bombs and hope do they? they dont plan things out? look ahead to all potential outcomes? why are you trying to let bush/blair and co off the hook for not having the faintest idea about what would happen after saddam went?
Gus
“Grimer, the last time that you heard about a white christian man on the news comitting violence or murder, did you think, ‘What a delightful group of people these christians are…’
Have you bothered to actually read the link that I was referring to? It was the one posted by Mailman:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7895485.stm
Nobody, mentioned violence or murder except for the Muslims at the conference. They are the people that are responsible for the sections of the BBC article that I quoted earlier – i.e:
In closed meetings after sessions delegates focussed on the creation of a “third Jihadist front” – the first two being Afghanistan and Iraq. The intensity of the Israeli attack had “awakened all Muslims,” Mr Awajy claimed.
and…
Mr Nazzal [senior Hamas leader] told his audience: “Don’t worry about casualties.”
and…
To laughter in the audience, another speaker noted that twice as many babies were born as children were killed during the war.
Perhaps you should think before you post. To make things easier, I have highlighted a key word from my earlier post:
“What a delightful group of people these Muslims are…”
Does that make it easier for you? Can you now make the distinction between your prejudices and those that you project onto others?
Just so that there can be no confusion regarding your own views, please clarrify if you think that this view is ‘delightful’:
“To laughter in the audience, another speaker noted that twice as many babies were born as children were killed during the war.”
Personally, I think it is a revolting outlook on life. I’ll be bookmarking that page for evidence, the next time I see an ‘outraged’ Arab screaming about children dying.
Also Gus, you seem to be confusing me with Garden Trash. I can speak for myself.
I didn’t post an immediate response because I was busy doing other things. If I’d known you were hanging on my every word, I’d have been back sooner.