When it comes to a concise analysis of the situation in Afghanistan, who better fpr the BBC to turn to than….Paddy Ashdown! Argh! I listened to he whose eyes never quite open being interviewed earlier this morning and it became clear that the reason the BBC like Ashdown is because he, like them, believes a military victory is not enough to defeat the Taliban. It appears we will need to talk directly to them and help win– yip — their hearts and minds.
MORE HEARTS AND MINDS.
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Grimer its you missing the point, by drawing attention to their religion you are trying to paint the whole muslim faith as terrorists. the guys who are terrorists are not muslim – they may claim to be, they may think they are doing allahs will whatever, but they are just political terrorists, masquerading as religious terrorists cos it wins them support in the arab world, and it draws oppositon from people like you.
so lets dicuss the issues then.
Gus Haynes you are just the sort of person I hate…socialist, Muslim lover, PC obsessed, terrorist apologist, BBC watcher.
Go away.
Gus Haynes | 18.02.09 – 3:16 pm |
and we’ll take it that I was right about Grant, seeing as he hasn’t replied, and no one else has attempted to clarify what he meant. which was that he thinks all muslims are terrorists.
When news broke about the 7/7 bombings, did you think, “I bet it was some white Christians who done it?
Gus,
Your arrogance is unbelievable. You think you have the right to declare who is Muslim and who isn’t.
Next time there is one of these Arab conferences, go along and tell them they’re not Muslims – I’ll pay your airfare.
Again, you haven’t bothered to read the article. Here are some key phrases that may help you to get your head around the facts:
“third Jihadist front” (incidentally, this meeting was named “Global Anti-Aggression Campaign” – you couldn’t make it up)
“awakened all Muslims,” Mr Awajy claimed
“religious scholars and clerics met senior Hamas officials to plot a new jihad centred on Gaza”
“hall crowded with conservative Sunni Muslim sheikhs and scholars”
“Palestine is a legitimate theatre of operations for jihad (holy war),” (don’t worry, I’m sure they’re only talking about that peaceful ‘inner struggle’ we hear so much about)
“open their borders and allow the fighters to come.”
“Every death, I was told, was a martyrdom on the road to liberation.”
Gussy,
“yep the US army, best in the world, doesn’t plan wars. they just fire bombs and hope do they?”
Naughty naughty,you are getting trollish.I said there were plans did I not.You probably do not know the saying,”No plan survives first contact with the enemy”,or much else about the subject.
Gus,
Before you waste any more of our time, please educate yourself. You state:
“the guys who are terrorists are not muslim – they may claim to be, they may think they are doing allahs will whatever, but they are just political terrorists, masquerading as religious terrorists cos it wins them support in the arab world, and it draws oppositon from people like you.
so lets dicuss the issues then.”
Read these pages and then let me know your thoughts. I’ll be happy to debate with you.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Muhammad/myths-mu-home.htm
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/Games-Muslims-Play.htm
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/Quran-Hate.htm
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/Myths-of-Islam.htm
I especially like this one:
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/WWMD.htm
“and the capitalisation wasn’t intentional, don’t get paranoid on me…”
Twice? More like a Freudian lapse.You managed to dodge “white” though didn’t you?
“but they are just political terrorists, masquerading as religious terrorists cos it wins them support in the arab world,”
Why would that win them support in the Arab world? Do explain.
Gus 3:16
I have replied since your post , please see posts above.
mikewineliberal: Actually yes. Islam is a political belief. Muslims want Sharia law and hold the silly Koran above UK law.
We are at war with Islam. The Americans locked up hundreds of thousands of Japanese during WW2. That worked rather well.
I’d offer Muslims money to go and live abroad but not stay here. And before you start mincing on about ‘racism’ I’m including white converts here as well.
Islam has no place in the modern western world. It’s a barbaric view of life that is disguised up as a serious religion.
The continual obsession these loons have with jihad, hanging people and hacking off heads, their intolerance to criticism and a wish to blow up innocent fellow citizens has got beyond a joke.
We already have no go zones in some of our inner cities. Muslims just can’t get on with other groups.
That’s their problem.
Gus Haynes, you are hilarious. It’s not muslims that comit any of these terrorist acts. You sound like a mouthpiece for Hamas and should be ashamed of yourself. Disgusting little man, please go away.
Gus Haynes, did your grandparents run around during the war protesting that Hitler wasn’t a real Nazi, he was just alluding to being one to turn the west against the Germans.
You are a modern day Lord Haw Haw.
martin | 18.02.09 – 5:26 pm
OK, thanks. I think that’s an eye-wateringly extreme view.
I find it odd that people such as Gus and I, with whom one might disagree, but who ultimately are pretty reasonable and moderate, are treated with such opprobrium. Whereas, views like Martin’s, and even harder core stuff from Stormfronters on here such as British Power (who wafted onto here recently, spewing his hate) go unchallenged
Do we prefer internship or internment of British muslims?
I prefer interment.
mikewineliberal:
“…I find it odd that people such as Gus and I, with whom one might disagree, but who ultimately are pretty reasonable and moderate…”
No you’re not, you’re a right pair of tosspots who just don’t get it.
How many more tube trains or WTC’s will it take for you to get that through your thick skull?
Martin – My skull might be thick, but i have yet to pray Ross Kemp in aid of one of my arguments. That honour belongs to you alone.
Why does it have to be a “white” Christian? And why do you capitalise Muslim,but not Christian? We can feel the bias.
Garden Trash | 18.02.09 – 4:10 pm |
————————————–
That’s what I was wondering. Probably a sign of the insidious effect of persistent BBC bias and propaganda.
The lefties have a problem with black christians ! How dare some black people be christian ? Ah, yes, it is all the fault of the white christian colonialists. Problem solved !
Gus Haynes:
You still won’t answer the question…its simple enough.
Your post at 12.57 said ”What a delightful group of people these Muslims are…”
what did you mean to say then? did you mean to say that all muslims are as bad as the terrorists? and my point remains; no one judges all christians cos of catholic IRA terrorists, so why do you do it for muslims?
and the capitalisation wasn’t intentional, don’t get paranoid on me…
Gus Haynes | 18.02.09 – 4:25 pm |
———————————–
Silly and invalid analogy: that was nothing to do with Christian or Catholic doctrine, but an Irish Republican movement (aim: Irish rule and reunification) – no religious doctrine invoked or required.
mikewineliberal: You really are an arsehole. Ross Kemp showed the total futility of what the army is doing in Afghanistan.
They are just bullet magnets, they don’t hold ground and they are on the defensive all the time.
The Soviets couldn’t hold Afghanistan with 100,000 soldiers and the British were run out of there twice.
The people there are not worth it. They are Muslims. They are worth nothing in my view.
Kemp shows in one episode more that tosser like the BBC show in a year.
You wouldn’t know that. I bet when you were a child mummy made you play with dolls.
If you love Afghanistan so much perhaps you might want to go and fight over there yourself you spineless coward?
”The people there are not worth it. They are Muslims. They are worth nothing in my view.”
Thanks Martin, you are racist of the day on this site. Comments like yours do such wonders to the credibility of the site.
”The people there are not worth it. They are Muslims. They are worth nothing in my view.”
Thanks Martin, you are racist of the day on this site. Comments like yours do such wonders to the credibility of the site.
Anonymous | 18.02.09 – 7:35 pm | #
Personally, I’m grateful we live in a country that makes a distinction between ‘religion’ and ‘race’. Something that your pea sized brain seems incapable of.
Now, repeat after me:
“Islam is not a race. Islam is not a race. Islam is not a race. Islam……”
As an additional point Anonymong, would you have a problem with Martin’s statement if we switched the word ‘Muslim’ for ‘Nazi’ or ‘BNP member’?
Let’s give it a go, shall we:
“The people there are not worth it. They are Nazis. They are worth nothing in my view.”
“The people there are not worth it. They are BNP Supporters. They are worth nothing in my view.”
Do those statements hurt your precious feelings as much as Martin’s comments about Muslims?
Grimer, most Muslims are non-white. So it clearly is a racist thing to say. That said, we should move beyond the ‘martins a racist’ argument. We’ve established that beyond fact, lets deal with the issues again.
Millie, Islamic extremists claim they blow up buildings because of US troops in Saudi Arabia. So they are politically motivated. Like the IRA…
Anonymous:
”The people there are not worth it. They are Muslims. They are worth nothing in my view.”
Thanks Martin, you are racist of the day on this site. Comments like yours do such wonders to the credibility of the site.
Anonymous | 18.02.09 – 7:35 pm |
———————————
Eh?
That would be Muslim-ist, if anything, wouldn’t it?
Race-ist is something else, see.
Why do you people rush to defend people like Martin? How can you agree with the hatred/racist nonsense he spouts?
Agree with his politics is one thing, sticking up for a bigot is another thing entirely
And in comes Gus with his el cubo logic:
Gus Haynes:
Grimer, most Muslims are non-white. So it clearly is a racist thing to say [It might be ‘clear’ to you, but to everybody else, it is clear that Islam is a religion – i.e. a belief system. As most Nazis were white, does it also mean that criticising the Nazis belief system is ‘racist’?]. That said, we should move beyond the ‘martins a racist’ argument. We’ve established that beyond fact [No, you really haven’t done anything of the sort], lets deal with the issues again.
Millie, Islamic extremists claim they blow up buildings because of US troops in Saudi Arabia [Is that why they are also cutting off heads in the Philippines? Chopping off heads in Thailand? Persecuting Christians in Egypt? You don’t half talk a load of ignorant shite]. So they are politically motivated. Like the IRA…[2 + 2 = 7. Well done, you’ve got a C grade maths GCSE]
Gus Haynes | 18.02.09 – 8:03 pm | #
(Sorry Martin, I know you’re more than capable of dealing with this twat, but he really does talk so much shit)
Gus Haynes: Yawn Yet again you loser leftist can’t read can you?
Islam is a political way of life as much as a so called religion. Just like I hate Communists I also hate Muslims. Why? Because their religious view goes against what we value in the west.
Muslims don’t want to debate homosexuality, they just hang them. Muslims don’t debate the rights and wrongs of the war in Iraq, they just blow up trains.
Yet again please point out where Muslims are a race? I’ve pointed out I include white Muslims in the lot I hate.
Is that a bit difficult for you to understand?
Grimer: It’s OK. These morons don’t bother to read, they just spout their nonsense usually from a haze of cheap lager.
I would like Gus to explain why Jews, Hindu’s & Sikhs don’t keep kicking up a fuss?
Hindu’s and Sikhs must be getting pissed off with the BBC calling terrorists Asians all the time as if somehow everyone who is of Asian origin is a Muslim.
Well Martin, ‘the jews’ are kicking up a fuss somewhat, killing people in Gaza (mostly civilians) counts doesnt it? oh no, its not the jews, its the israelis. see my point?
i dont blame the jews for the killings in gaza,i blame the israelis. but you, you dont blame the saudis or the iranians, you blame all muslims. thats my point.
and the fact you resort to swearing and insults just shows my points have validity, and have ruffled your feathers. you are now the kid in the playground making the most noise.
and not to mention america – where christian hardliners have been running the foreign policy show for years based on an arrogant belief that their values should be applied to the entire world. Bush and his cronies were christian extremists.
“Grimer, most Muslims are non-white. So it clearly is a racist thing to say. ”
A large number of Christians are also not white, so you too are a racist,Gussy.
“and not to mention america – where christian hardliners have been running the foreign policy show for years based on an arrogant”
Your ignorance knows no bound Gussy.There it is again,small “c” Christians.What have you got against Christians? Is it because they’s white?
As Martin pointed out. Gus never bothers to read any of our responses to his idiocy. Either that or he chooses to ignore the bits he can’t square with his own bigoted views.
He hasn’t answered one of the questions I’ve posed to him today, whereas I have answered every single question he has posed to me. He makes the most ridiculous sweeping statements (usually accusing others of ‘racism’ or ‘bigotry’) and then totally ignores their logical arguments.
The man/boy is a troll. Ignore him.
Grimer,
Gussy has a conditioned response,he doesn’t actually think,certain words trigger algorithms in his head and out they come.Like all lefties,the mantra is a substitute for reason.
So like our dear Angry Young Bollox.
Garden 8:21
I pointed out earlier that lefties have a real problem with black christians !
I loved Gus’s post that Bush and his “extremist” christian cronies belived that their values should be applied to the “entire world”.
Phew ! China had a lucky escape !
Knobs like Gus and MWL would be happy to see this sort of shit in the UK I presume?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/nov/22/afghanistan-gender-women-taliban
“Grimer, most Muslims are non-white. So it clearly is a racist thing to say.”
Arabs certainly see themselves as non-black: they use the word black to mean slave as well.I’ve met blond, blue-eyed Berbers and Turks. Type Iranian into community webshots and you will see that many of the faces wouldn’t even justify use of the term ‘mediterranean appearance’ – the same could be said of a lot of Bosnians and Albanians. The Muslims of Bangladesh and Pakistan are indistinguishable, physically (male body modifications apart) from the Hindus and Sikhs who live just across the border or, indeed from those small Christian communities who manage to survive as second class citizens within those Muslim countries.
The idea that an aversion to Islam (coupled with a fondness for Sikhism, Hinduism and Buddhism) is racist because most most Muslims are non-white, is so crass as to be unbelievable.
For people who claim to be motivated by “world peace,” lefties like Gus sure do put a lot of effort into evading the fact that the surest way to promote peace and civilization is through the spread of free trade and democracy.
No other forces in human history have been more beneficial to human life. Capitalist democracies do not make war with one another (there is absolutely nothing to be gained and everything to be lost). Every single country which has adopted liberal democracy and free trade has seen both an explosion of population (higher birth rates, lower infant mortality) and unprecedented improvements in living conditions.
Anyone who objects to the spread of these benefits surely cannot claim a “love of humanity” as their motivation. In fact I’m often drawn to wonder why the left has so much contempt for human life.
I’m glad – and not surprised – to see everyone laughing at the notion that Islamo-nutter terrorists aren’t proper Muslims, but merely using that ideology for PR purposes.
In case there are any lurking doubters – like the majority of the Arab Muslims in the world after 9/11 – who think proper Muslims wouldn’t do such a thing, Mohamed Atta’s suicide note ought to convince you otherwise:
“Everybody hates death, fears death,” according to a translation of highlights of the document obtained by The Washington Post. “But only those, the believers who know the life after death and the reward after death, would be the ones who will be seeking death.”
This appears in a section of the document beneath the words, “The last night.”
That section begins, “Remind yourself that in this night you will face many challenges. But you have to face them and understand it 100 percent. … Obey God, his messenger, and don’t fight among yourself where you become weak, and stand fast, God will stand with those who stood fast.”
The translated version of the document instructs the hijackers to steel their will with prayer before embarking on their mission.
“You should pray, you should fast. You should ask God for guidance, you should ask God for help. … Continue to pray throughout this night. Continue to recite the Koran.”
It continues: “Purify your heart and clean it from all earthly matters. The time of fun and waste has gone. The time of judgment has arrived. Hence we need to utilize those few hours to ask God for forgiveness. You have to be convinced that those few hours that are left you in your life are very few. From there you will begin to live the happy life, the infinite paradise. Be optimistic. The prophet was always optimistic.”
These are not the words of anything other than a devout Muslim. This doesn’t prove by any means that all Mohammedans are terrorists, or support terrorism. But it does prove that a caveman version of Islam is a real problem, and these butchers’ claims of Islamic jihad are not window dressing for PR purposes. Brainwashing purposes, yes. PR purposes, no.
mikewineliberal:
martin | 18.02.09 – 5:26 pm
OK, thanks. I think that’s an eye-wateringly extreme view.
I find it odd that people such as Gus and I, with whom one might disagree, but who ultimately are pretty reasonable and moderate, are treated with such opprobrium. Whereas, views like Martin’s, and even harder core stuff from Stormfronters on here such as British Power (who wafted onto here recently, spewing his hate) go unchallenged
mikewineliberal | 18.02.09 – 6:16 pm | #
Wise words from MWL yet again .
When British Power showed up everyone seemed to ignore his lunacy .
Why don’t we do the same with MWL and Gus ?
They may be forced to return to their former attention-seeking ways – ” Socialist Worker ! Get your Socialist Worker !”
BTW What are “Stormfronters”?
Martin | 18.02.09 – 9:11 pm
I am consistent in my equal disregard for all the world’s major reasons. I favour rigorous secular government.
Alan Healy | 19.02.09 – 2:22 am
Profound response. Well done.
Wally 12:03
Quite right , but it doesn’t fit into the leftie agenda and it makes the world too complicated for them to understand.
It’s not really one for the Beeb as the national broadcaster should be unreservedly supporting our troops on active duty (some hope), but somebody should be investigating why the US efforts in Iraq and to a lesser extent Afghanistan have gone from being a shambles to a qualified success whereas despite having a far higher quality of soldier at the individual level ours have gone from qualified success to hanging around being shot at for no discernable purpose. It’s a f***ing outrage. Also a f***ing outrage is the failure of our European “allies” to get involved in what is supposed to be a NATO project in Afghanistan??!! Why has this fiasco been so downplayed??
I’d take Paddy Ashdown’s view over any armchair hawk on military matters however…
Can’t be bothered to read all comments, so apologies if I’m repeating anything earlier. There is a misconception at the centre of PA’s chat, which he should know. “Hearts and minds” is a strategy used successfully against guerrills in the Malayan Insurgency. The appeal was not to the guerillas, but to the common people they used for shelter. They were convinced that co-operation with the authorities was more beneficial to them than hiding gunmen. No appeal was made to the guerillas. All this current trash is just a reheat of Blair’s approach to the IRA, which only worked because they had already been effectively militarily defeated. The Army should have been allowed to finish the job.
Kafka 12:41
Well said !
Gus Haynes’ brain can’t recognize the fact that political and religious motives are not exclusive. Sure there is a religious cause to the IRA dating back centuries of persecution of Catholics by the Protestants. However the religious aspect has been replaced by a nationalist one in the modern era.
However, Islamic terrorism is of a different kind. It has its view of the the struggle between the nation of Islam and the Kafirs. Of course not all muslims necessarily hold this view. Some are more religious than others. Nevertheless this aspect of Islam as a worldwide nation is largely absent the catholic struggle in Northern Ireland. One cannot find a catholic filipino terrorist trying to slam planes into London buildings for example.
I mean the IRA cause isn’t as relevant to a catholic elsewhere in the world as say what Palestine/Iraq is to an Indonesian or Malay or pakistani muslim.
Kafka | 19.02.09 – 12:41 pm |
All this current trash is just a reheat of Blair’s approach to the IRA, which only worked because they had already been effectively militarily defeated. The Army should have been allowed to finish the job.
This has been the BBC Narrative – both domestic and on the World Service – for some time now. Good to see more people starting to see through it.