42 Responses to Open Thread

  1. Ron Todd says:

    News 24 today

    Obama Obama Obama the French town liberated by America on D Day Obama Obama Obama …

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  2. Fred says:

    I had a sudden revelation earlier. I know how the Beeb are going to spin the election results. Some outlets are reporting a turnout reduction of up to 50% as people stay away from the polls in disgust. So it'll become a "DISASTER FOR DEMOCRACY" with all focus diverted to the low turnout and any Labour collapse attributed to general disgust with politicians.

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  3. LH says:

    I know it's a big Obama day for the Beeb and that will have everyone's attention. But I have been watching CBBC and CBeebies of late. My they start the indoctrination off young.

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  4. Not a sheep says:

    Sky News are leading on James Purnell's resignation form the Cabinet. BBC News leading on Barry Shearman…

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  5. archduke says:

    james purnell resigns.

    has written letter telling brown to resign.

    and this is BEFORE the june 4th results are even known.

    their internal polling must be bloody awful…

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  6. David Vance says:

    The end is nigh…..alas poor Gordon.

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  7. Anonymous says:

    Obamas grovelling wasted:

    TEHRAN (Reuters) – Iran's supreme leader said on Thursday the United States was deeply hated in the Middle East and told U.S. President Barack Obama that "beautiful" speeches alone would not improve its image in the Muslim world.(Reuters)

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  8. Tim Read says:

    Take a look at the BBC's politics pen on Newsnight.

    Every panellist has close links with the government of Gordon Brown and Labour.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/8082089.stm

    This is a naked attempt to influence politics for a biased view point and must be exposed and resisted.

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  9. archduke says:

    obama's grovelling is sickening.

    i'm sorry america – you elected the guy. dont expect any sympathy from me when you have your next 9/11

    cos thats where its heading.

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  10. David Preiser (USA) says:

    archduke,

    I doubt it. The Leftoids have their undies in a bundle because their Obamessiah has left Boooooosh's national security and anti-terror policies pretty much intact. The last thing He wants is for something unpleasant to happen at home on His watch. That would ruin the political capital he needs to force us further and further into Chavez territory. That's the sole reason for his political career in the first place, and all he really cares about. All the foreign policy stuff is baggage that comes with the job. His heart isn't in it, even if His speech writer wants it to be.

    Europe and Britain will suffer before we do, but those who will suffer most will be those living in the Muslim countries whose leaders the President was trying to speak to. When the Islamo-nutters get emboldened, it's always the weakest who suffer most and most often. And Israel, if He keeps making it seem like they're the only obstacle.

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  11. JohnA says:

    http://tinyurl.com/qjcz6r

    gives a good critique of Obama's blether in Cairo.

    But to listen to the BBC, it is impossible not to see the speech as anything but perfect.

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  12. Anonymous says:

    It was Bush who appeased the Islamo-nutters by doing exactly what Bin Laden and Dinner Jacket wanted.

    Its hardly surprising that Dinner Jacket benefited from Bush threatening the Iranian people. If the leader of a foreign country threatened to murder your people, as Bush did, you'd be more inclined to vote for the nutter who opposes said hostile leader.

    Israel has a right to exist, but, like a true welfare sponger, it takes money from the US taxpayer but shows know gratitude or acknowledgement that it must respect the American taxpayer.

    And lest we forget, Israel was founded by terrorists who butchered British soldiers. Hardly paragons of virtue.
    I have a vision of Israel and Palestine, two nations with a shared history of being founded by amoral bastards.

    Obama is playing the "reasonable man" card, thus Dinner Jacket will be viewed as a moron when he fails to respond reasonably to reasonableness.

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  13. The Count of Monte Cristo in a Bubble Car says:

    The BBC's Frank Gardner said on BBC World last night that we shouldn't forget that Islam was responsible for the renaissance in Europe. That's right folks, without the desert prophet and his easy-going attitude towards art (especially the representation of the human form and living things), there would have been no rediscovery of Greek learning, no rediscovery of perspective, no renaissance art, no renaissance architecture and ultimately no scientific and industrial revolution. Of course, you probably have to have studied Islamic studies at university like Frank to be aware of this fact.

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  14. Anonymous says:

    Dutch far-Right comes second in European Parliament election

    "Geert Wilders' far-Right anti-immigration party made significant gains in the European Parliament elections in the Netherlands on Thursday, according to exit polls.
    Geert Wilders, who was banned from Britain by the Home Office because of his controversial views on Islam, won support from Protestant and Catholic voters" The Telegraph

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  15. Ron Todd says:

    Noticed on Question time that the labour party representative did not get the usual chair next to the Dimbelby, though some fluffy tv personality woman did.

    Did the audience include a disproportionally large number of Brown supporters considering that there are so few of them left?

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  16. Anonymous says:

    Anonymous said.."And lest we forget, Israel was founded by terrorists who butchered British soldiers. Hardly paragons of virtue"…

    No Anonymous,"The Jews’ aspiration for their homeland does not derive from the Holocaust, nor their overall tragic history. It derives from Judaism itself, which is composed of the inseparable elements of the religion, the people and the land. Their unique claim upon the land rests upon the fact that the Jews are the only people for whom Israel was ever their nation, which it was for hundreds of years – centuries before the Arabs and Muslims came on the scene. As for antisemitism, he(Obama) made no mention of the alliance between the Palestinians and the Nazis during the 1930s, and the fact that Nazi-style Jew-hatred continues to pour out of the Arab and Muslim world to this day.
    Worse, Obama appeared to draw a subliminal equivalence between the Holocaust extermination camps and the Palestinian 'refugee' camps: Read More..The Spectator

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  17. robert says:

    The only impetus Islam gave to the Renaissance was to force cultured Greeks, Byzantines and other Christians to flee to western Europe in the wake of the Ottoman invasion of Asia Minor and the Balkans. At the same time, the liberation of Spain saw Spanish moslems moving in the opposite direction. Which zone benefitted? I think the answer tells you all you need to know about Islamic "culture"

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  18. George R says:

    Radio 4, 'Today', with its finger on the pulse this morning:

    'It's 8:23, and time to discuss music and art'.

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  19. Sutekh says:

    And don't forget of course the nazi regime's courting of the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem during WW2…

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  20. Anonymous says:

    The non-extensive TT coverage by the BBC seems to be headed by their pro-female mantra.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/8081831.stm

    What a pathetic bunch of losers the BBC are.

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  21. Anonymous says:

    If not quite a -good- day to bury bad news, it's the best they're going to get. Electoral coverage relegated on the web site at the moment, it's all about the reshuffle instead.

    Borderline fair enough at the moment perhaps. Be interesting to see if it continues through the day though, and where the focus of the analysis is. If it's on the minutia of who's got what job today as opposed to the actual votes cast by the real-life opinion pole of the electorate – well, we'll see how it unfolds.

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  22. DB says:

    From James Purnell's resignation letter to Brown: "We both love the Labour Party. I have worked for it for 20 years…"

    That includes the period when he was head of corporate planning for the BBC from 1995-97.

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  23. adam says:

    pathetic interview with ukip on wednesdays newsnight.
    they wont ask the same same questions to labour or green meps i bet

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  24. Grant says:

    Robert 8:13
    So how do you explain the Ottomans giving sanctuary to the Sephardic Jews ?
    The history is a little more complicated than you suggest.

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  25. George R says:

    'Mail':

    "The BBC was right to rip into MPs' expenses… and we've every right to know what it sqaunders on its own stars"
    By Stephen Glover.

    [Extract]:

    "Public servants must be accountable. If this applies to Members of Parliament, it should also apply to employees of the BBC, who are funded by the licence fee, a mandatory tax for anyone in this country owning a television.
    All right, I know that MPs pass laws, and it might be thought that the way in which they lavish our money on themselves is of particular interest to us.

    "But employees of the BBC are no less public servants, and I venture to suggest that there may have been abuses within the BBC which make some of the excesses of members of Parliament look like pretty small beer." (Stephen Glover, 'Mail'.)

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  26. JohnA says:

    BBC tag for Geert Wilder and his party is "far-right". The tag is ALWAYS added.

    What is "FAR-RIGHT" about saying – no more immigration, no entry for Turkey into the EC etc. Those sentiments are shared by scores of millions of Europeans.

    Or is it "FAR-RIGHT" for the party to cut right across the BBC's soft treatment of militant Islam, for the party to be saying that it is time to deal with the bad aspects of Islam – including the direct link between some Islamic teachings and terrorist attacks in Europe.

    …………………….

    If eg the Freedom Party and here the BNP are "FAR-RIGHT" – implying extremist – why does the BBC not always attach the tag "FAR-LEFT" to Respect and to the Green Party ?

    …………..

    On Obama's waffling in Cairo – ye gods doesn't he love himself ? – here is a dissection of what he is saying on Jewish settlements on the West Bank. It looks like Obama is reneging on all previous understandings with US governments and Congress :

    http://tinyurl.com/q9gxoh

    Why hasn't Obama the guts to state that he has decided to renege ? Day after day his press spokesman has refused to answer the direct question – is the accord of 2004 dead now ? Slippery is Obama's middle name.

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  27. robert says:

    Grant: the arrival of the Spanish muslims in Constantinople in fact led to virulent outbreaks of anti-semitism in the capital, where until then it is indeed true (as you suggest) that the Turks had been reasonably open-minded

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  28. Peter says:

    DB said…
    From James Purnell's resignation letter to Brown: "We both love the Labour Party. I have worked for it for 20 years…"
    That includes the period when he was head of corporate planning for the BBC from 1995-97.
    9:30 AM, June 05, 2009

    Worthy, I feel, of being immortalised, column right?

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  29. Not a sheep says:

    Anybody have the energy to fisk this news story about "Iran boasts that it is the most democratic country". I wish I had the time today…

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  30. Nilpoint says:

    Mr Obama also plans to visit the Nazi concentration camp in Buchenwald and then a US Army hospital.

    His visit to Buchenwald has a personal significance. He discovered during the presidential election campaign that a maternal great-uncle, Charles Payne, had been one of the US servicemen present at the liberation of Auschwitz, the Nazi death camp.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/8084352.stm

    Someone ain't been paying attention.

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  31. George R says:

    JohnA 10:24 am

    Yes, BBC will not report this, re-Wilders' success:

    'Brussels Journal' –

    "Wilders appeals to indigenous vote of right and left alike"

    [Extract]:

    "Wilders’ party has become the largest party in Rotterdam, a traditional Socialist stronghold, where it received 22.5% of the votes, while Labour declines from 31 to 15%. Rotterdam has a large population of Muslim immigrants. It seems the native voters have flocked en masse to Wilders, whose party has even become the biggest in Capelle aan de IJssel, the home town of Prime Minister Balkenende.

    "The Dutch electoral map* shows that the PVV (pale blue on the map*) has become the largest party in parts of the southern province of Limburg, Wilders’ home province, which is traditionally Christian-Democrat, in the eastern corner of the northern province of Groningen, which is a communist bulwark, and in the major cities and suburbs of the West, which traditionally tend to vote Labour (inner cities) or Liberal (suburbs). This indicates that the PVV appeals to the whole spectrum of the Dutch indigenous population, from the right to the left, with its program against the Islamization of Europe, its outspoken support for Israel, and against the transformation of the European Union into a European superstate." ('Brussels Journal'.)
    ( *map on view at link. )

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  32. sue says:

    Danger:

    Jenny Tonge is on Any Questions tonight.

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  33. DB says:

    From this week's News Quiz – Sandi Toksvig talking about Obama's big speech: "He said, 'America is not at war with Islam' and you sort of get the sense that was only because Bush couldn't find Islam on the map." [Hysterical seat-wetting guffaws from cretinous News Quiz audience]

    Flashback to two weeks ago – Sandi Toksvig: "Barack Obama has announced new plans to make American cars more fuel efficient in a bid to cut pollution and lower dependence on oil imports. Obama hailed the deal as a historic agreement to help break America's dependence on oil. His use of the word 'historic' annoyed George Bush as in eight years as president he had never used a three-syllable word. [Pavlovian laughter from idiot News Quiz audience]

    Once again I make the offer to any BBC lurkers – in these harsh economic times why waste money on comedy writers and presenters when Generic Radio 4 Comedian will cost you nothing?

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  34. Francis says:

    The website gets a mention in this interesting comment on racism as a thought crime.
    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/edwest/blog/2009/06/03/racism_as_thoughtcrime__orwell_seems_more_right_than_ever

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  35. Anonymous says:

    Anybody see this in the Independent? http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/tom-mangold-none-of-your-business-what-im-paid-1697253.html
    Tom Mangold writes about pay and says
    'Positive-discrimination hirings of minorities could become difficult once everyone knows what everyone else is earning. Invariably, they'll want the same and the temptation to create freelance fee bands will be overwhelming – and talent-destroying.'
    Isn't positive discrimination against the law?

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  36. DB says:

    Lest we forget the real significance of today's D-Day ceremonies, James Naughtie was in Normandy to remind us this morning:

    "It's going to be a very, very moving day and we can expect Obama words that will arise to the occasion."

    Oh, and there's some old soldiers there or something as well.

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  37. BaggieJonathan says:

    One of the BBC's most staggering use of scare quotes ever goes unnoticed.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/8086565.stm

    No quotes you notice here, but now go to the middle east page and its Uranium 'found' at Syrian reactor.

    Why?

    What next, Nazis in holocaust 'murder' Jews, bear 'shits' in the woods, BBC is 'biased'.

    Might as well put the whole of every article in quotes.

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  38. Tendryakov says:

    Listening to the news summary on Radio 4, yesterday, the newscaster reported that Geert Wilders' party had obtained 15% of the vote in the recent euro-election. He then reminded us that Wilders had been banned from entering Britain, not citing the official line that his presence was detrimental to community relations, or however it was couched, but because "he had made anti-Islamic statements" (sic).

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  39. David Preiser (USA) says:

    Robert Peston is willfully misleading everyone in his latest post.

    Lloyds is about to pay back £2.3 billion of the bailout money loaned to them. Peston say:

    When this repayment happens, the UK government will be the first government in the world to retrieve some of the cash that's been invested in banks to rescue them from collapse.

    It's another sign that – as far as the banking system is concerned – we seem to have passed the moment of most extreme stress.

    Which is false. However, one of his commenters corrects him by pointing out that some US banks have already paid back their TARP loans. Peston posted an update admitting the error, but downplays it by saying that it's only a few small banks, and none of the big boys have paid it back.

    But he neglects to tell you why. The Obamessiah and His minions won't let them:

    Government Foisting Illegal Requirements on TARP Repayment

    and

    Condition is Set for Banks' TARP Exit

    Now, there are a couple of ways to look at this. First, one could say that the US is doing more to ensure the stability of banks, in which case Peston is wrong about this being a good sign, and at best misleading about why the UK has the first big bank to pay back government loans.

    Alternatively, one could say that Peston is simply ignorant of the US scene, which is why he didn't mention that the big US banks he mentions haven't paid TARP money back yet. This is, of course, ridiculous. He knows perfectly well what's going on, but chooses to mislead instead.

    He wants to show something positive for Mr. Brown, but he has a problem. If Peston mentions that some small US banks have already paid the money back, in order to show one of his "green shoots of recovery" he needs to qualify that by saying no big boys have done yet. This means he has to tell a little fib.

    Of course, if Peston reports that the reason why Lloyds is the first big bank to repay is that the US Government is being more careful and prudent, that won't make Mr. Brown look good, and will cast a shadow on this "green shoot of recovery". It would also open up avenues of criticism towards The Obamessiah, and we can't have that at the BBC.

    So Robert Peston dodges the truth in order to reassure the public that Mr. Brown's cunning plan is working.

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  40. David Preiser (USA) says:

    David Vance or ed thomas,

    FYI

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  41. David Vance says:

    David P,

    Thanks for that.

    Ed,

    Please note.

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  42. David Preiser (USA) says:

    Charles Moore has interesting information about the the BBC's £30K apology to the MCB about some unapproved thoughts he voiced on Question Time a couple of months ago.

    It seems that the BBC apologized for his remarks without telling him.

    Go figure. Your license fee hard at work.

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