Stephen Pollard takes issue with a Michael Buchanan piece – which has since been stealth-edited.
As for the idea that, All the Danes can do now is hope the repeated apologies for the offence caused, by both the government and the newspaper, will end this unseemly row, has a sentence more indicative of the BBC world view ever been written? Take a running jump, Mr Buchanan. So much for the BBC as a stout defender of free speech.
RETURN TO BLATANT CENSORSHIP AT DHYS BECAUSE OF CARTOON JIHAD THREAD:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/talking_point/4678264.stm
That’s of course why they were “down for maintenance.”
They couldn’t stand the off-message comments with the 1000 plus recommendations so they have returned to the old “selected comments” of the past.
THIS IS AN OUTRAGE. BRITS YOU ARE PAYING FOR THIS UNBELIEVABLE ARROGANCE!
Jack Straw? We’d be better off with Will Hay!
Calm down, Susan, my guess is that the unprecedently high number of “recommendations” has overwhelmed their IT systens, that’s all.
They are displaying FOUR comments at present “which represent the balance of opinions received”: three of the four are in favour of them being printed (one of those implicitly so).
I imagine full service will be resumed as soon as possible.
I don’t see any censorship there.
wow.. get a load of the Spectator front page…
http://www.spectator.co.uk/index.thtml
My comment had been recommended by over 800 people and was on the front page. Now its gone. I’m pissed off.
(chatmandu_uk)
Venichka defends the bbc in all posts, i smell a bbc person here !!
“They couldn’t stand the off-message comments with the 1000 plus recommendations so they have returned to the old “selected comments” of the past.”
Given that everything boils down to power and control, I have a vision of a near-future BBC where recently-sacked journalists are hired as data entry temps in order to ‘astroturf’ the BBC’s own Have Your Say messageboards.
This practice is common in other fields – the user reviews on the Internet Movie Database, for example – and it seems perverse enough to happen. It would be a win-win situation for the BBC; it would have the illusion of free speech, whilst at the same time it would have control.
The traditional mechanisms for manufacturing consent are less effective on the Have Your Say messageboards, because they are linkable from outside the BBC’s website, which is freely available to all and sundry. Blogs such as this can drum up support amongst a particular pool of like-minded people. Perhaps the BBC could move to a model whereby the posters (rather than the posts) are recommended, and ensure things so that favourite posters who reliably espouse a certain position have greater clout than others.
Ashley,
That’s exactly what they did before. Bilal Patel was allowed to comment at will. Everybody else found it impossible to get past the BBC censors. If they introduced that kind of system (I presume you mean something similar to Amazon’s ‘Top 1000 reviewer’ thing), the BBC staff would just give 5* ratings to all the people that towed the BBC line. The reader recommended version is good. It’s just a pity the BBC feel they can pull a debate when it doesn’t go their way.
I’ve found a working link to the original debate. I suggest you get screenshots now, before it is deleted for good.
http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thread.jspa?sortBy=2&threadID=904&edition=2&ttl=20060203154347&#paginator
Just so that I’m clear here, could anybody who happens to support the BNP, not support the the principle of their freedom of speech, but actually support the BNP make themselves known? There are two or three posters whose “matey” declarations of support are making me suspicious.
I don’t support the BNP. But I do support their right to free speech. I disagree with the British media blackout on all things BNP.
If the Green Party and other minority parties are allowed on Question Time, so should the BNP
Has anyone else noted that the BBC have your say section is not working on the Cartoon story. Funny how only this particular ‘have your say’ is affected by a technical fault!!! More likely BBC censorship to stop the protestors coming round. Also I noted they haved altered the comments in favour of the political left-bowed down to the muslim fanatics!!! All the most highly recommended comments have disappered as they are not along the same lines as the BBC wishes for, which really gets my goat… BNP may have a new voter in the future!!!
Venichka defends the bbc in all posts, i smell a bbc person here !!
No, I do not work for the BBC. As if only a “BBC person” could take a more balanced approach than some of the more wild criticism here!
Fair enough Grimer – I didn’t have you in mind.
To argue the point about the greens, they probably have more support than the BNP. Better to compare the BNP with partys which have a similar level of support – when was the last time The Communist party of Great Britain or the Socialist Workers party got onto Question Time?
If the BNP and other minority parties were to be given a platform it may not only be better for democracy but may even lessen their support as they would have to reveal their policys under scrutiny rather than gain support by shouting from the sidelines.
The original page has probably been hacked by some Islamic nutcase, but it’s exceptionally dubious that the ‘balance of opinion’ is suddenly mildly anti publication (on pragmatic rather than religious fanatic grounds) whereas previously 95% were in favour of publication.
cartoon rage: tens of thousands in gaza…
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,183686,00.html
Here’s a link to the list of all the (D) HYS topics:
http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/index.jspa?&&&edition=1&ttl=20060203160314
I suggest that you click on the link and then bookmark the site for future reference.
Of course, the fact that you can get to the cartoons topic by this link suggests that the “technical difficulties” excuse is a blatant lie.
Russell Goff – have you read the BNP’s manifesto? See what they have to say about state control in industry and tax and social welfare. It’s pretty much a socialist (of the brand a certain Austrian would have been proud) agenda just without the darkies.
Just because they make appealing (to some) noises about immigration doesn’t make them electable.
“If the BNP and other minority parties were to be given a platform it may not only be better for democracy but may even lessen their support as they would have to reveal their policys under scrutiny rather than gain support by shouting from the sidelines.”
I am reminded of the situation (dredges memory) in the late 1970s, when the National Front gained or bought enough support to warrant a party political broadcast on the television. I know very little about this – perhaps the broadcast was prepared but not transmitted, I have no idea. From what I have seen in subsequent programmes the broadcast either made no difference, or acted like the “three minutes hate” in 1984, by giving people something to shout at.
This was an interesting read:
http://www.selectedworks.co.uk/television1974.html
The National Front apparently made a party political broadcast in 1974. I now include a lengthy quote and I want to stress that these events happened before I was born and that I do not support and have never supported and cannot envisage myself ever supporting either the National Front or the BNP, even in the “my enemy’s enemy is my friend” send of “support”:
“The National Front typically compares the treatment it is given with that given to the Communist Party. Thus, writing to the BBC’s Director General, Sir Charles Curran, the Chairman of the National Front, John Tyndall, complained that whilst the National Front was fielding 55 candidates against the Communist Party’s 43,
‘On your news programme yesterday, considerable time was given to reporting and commenting on the Communist Party manifesto . . . This was followed by a several-minute interview with John Gollan… No mention has been made of the existence of a National Front manifesto, let alone any of its contents. I maintain that your Corporation is under an obligation to give at least equal coverage in this election to the activities and statements of the National Front as to those of the Communist Party.’
Perhaps it was in response to this protest that John Tyndall was interviewed by David Dimbleby in Midweek (BBC2, 22 February). On the other hand, the BBC has asserted in the past that it does not feel obliged to give balanced or impartial coverage to at least some points of view. Thus, Hugh Carleton Greene, Director General of the BBC, wrote in the 1960 BBC Handbook that
‘I do not mean to imply that such a broadcasting system should be neutral in clear issues of right and wrong – even though it should be between Right and Left. It can, for instance, encourage the right attitude on the colour bar. In my job in the BBC, I should not for a moment admit that a man who wanted to speak in favour of racial intolerance had the same rights as a man who wanted to condemn it. There are some questions on which one should not be impartial. (Quoted in Day 1961, p 227)'”
Gordon-bennett.
Oh, you might be right, then
(note to Geoff: post – not defending the BBC)
This group: http://www.alghurabaa.co.uk/
Kill those who insult the Prophet Muhammad
http://www.alghurabaa.co.uk/articles/new/cartoon.htm
I have just reported the above group to the security services via the Mi5 website.
Mi5 How you can help
https://www.mi5.gov.uk/output/Page6.html
If they haven’t been watching them so far, they can start now. It’s unbelievable that we have these muslim groups openly preaching death to UK citizens and we put up with it.
The problem is that Nick Griffin of the BNP said a few things that WILL resonate with some fed up and very angry voters….for example he pointed out that in Keighley Muslim men are grooming young white girls and then gang raping them – yet this is not reported although widely known in the area. The Mail quoted this part of his speech. He also pointed out that SOME Muslims are murdering thugs – meanhwile outside the Danish Embassy this afternoon it has been reported (but not by the Beeb) that ‘protesting people’ (who would not be allowed to protest at home in Saudi, Pakistan etc….) are calling for the beheading of some Danes…!
Pigeons coming home to roost in very large numbers with the resultant very excessive poo for NuLabour and their Liberal friends always prepared to play down millenia of traditions, laws and accepted behaviour/manners to bow before the noisy and threatening religion of peace…
So what happens if people get REALLY fed up and start calling for Crusade Number 7? (Or is it 8? or 9?)….remember the French started the first few crusades and now that Chirac is threatening nuclear reprisals if France is attacked, can we please expect our Government to show similar balls…..
http://muttawa.blogspot.com/2006/02/memo.html
Heh.
Simon
I support the BNP and so do many other people despite the dirty tricks campaign being waged against them by the BBC and the government. Their main enemy is unison who finance the dehumanising of anyone who speaks about mass immigration. Try googling unison+swp and find out more.
Yesterday the BNP came second behind labour with 30% of the vote.
http://politics.guardian.co.uk/byelections/story/0,,1701579,00.html
Good eh!
Want a crusade do ya?
Sounds like Jihad by a nother name to me.
I agree with Venichka, the level of hysteria on this comment thread is reaching fever pitch.
There we have it! Henry the Nazi. That’s one of my suspects, who else?
Beyond your anti-immigration fetish perhaps you’d like to comment on the BNP agenda for social policy? Tell us how liberating it will be for The British people and British Business.
BBC ‘side-step’ (D)HYS: Not content with their so-called ‘maintenance’ problems to affect (D)HYS today, Beeboids have decided to set up new ‘comments’ pages in competition – with pre-approved BBC good doublespeak comments of course.
Don’t like the views on BBC ‘Have Your Say’? No worries, just invent a new page called ‘Readers speak out’ and fill it with views you agree with.
Cartoon row: Readers speak out
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4674628.stm
The first ‘reader’ looks like your average UK BBC tv licence payer
AFREEN PARVEZ, AL-KHOBAR, SAUDI ARABIA
Can you guess what her view on the cartoons is?
“It was outrageous and completely unethical to publish these cartoons.”
Unbelievable!
Simon
There you go trying to dehumanise me.
If you knew me the last thing you would describe as would be a nazi. I wont bother insulting you back. Try and understand that people have every right to hold different opinions to you.
> “when was the last time The Communist party of Great Britain or the Socialist Workers party got onto Question Time?”
How many times has George Galloway appeared on QT?
Where the BBC and BNP think alike;
I wonder what their outlook on me would be
Muslim name
Dark skin
Born in the Uk
22 (full time) years service in the British Army
Now 4 years in the TA
I’m sure both they and the BBC would put me in the ethnic minority category.
Henry,
The left have to hate someone. The BNP hate darkies, the guardianista hate whitey.
I could never support the BNP due to their idiot left-wing EU writ-large economic policies (corporatist) or their rather irrational attitude to immigration selection (based on race/colour).
That is not to say immigration is allways a good thing, and thus should not be controled, with low-quality individuals filtered out.
There you go trying to dehumanise me.
If you knew me the last thing you would describe as would be a nazi.
No I don’t suppose you do wear a uniform or a swastika armband. I assume you are taking the name Nazi as an insult. Perhaps you can read your party manifesto from the last election or examine their policy statements and describe to some of the genuinely right-wing and libertarian people on this site how those policys (which are similar to those of the National Socialist German Workers Party of the 1930’s) can increase the prosperity and freedom of the people of this country? Or indeed how they could run the country at all?
Anonymous – Galloway is a nutter but he’s also an MP. I don’t agree with the people who elected him any more than I do with people who vote for the BNP. If the BNP get an MP elected then we’ll be able to judge the fairness of their respective TV appearences.
Simon is a troll. Do not feed the troll!
I’ve commented on here quite regularly. I BBBC everyday.
(read)
as in I read BBBC
short, succinct, and to the point:
http://drinkingfromhome.blogspot.com/2006/02/i-hate-jack-straw.html
I’ve just heard Jeremy Bowen on Five Live “Christians in this country don’t really practice their faith, but Muslims see eberything through the prism of Islam”
Breathtaking.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll
BBC’s dilemma over cartoons
http://news.bbc.co.uk/newswatch/ukfs/hi/newsid_4670000/newsid_4678100/4678186.stm
“And he (Peter Horrocks, Editor of BBC News) denied accusations of censorship by the BBC. “I think if you compare the BBC’s position to the whole of the UK printed press, where there hasn’t been any publication whatsoever, we’ve clearly gone further than the whole of the printed press.
“But clearly we’ve taken a decision not to go further than that in order not to gratuitously offend the significant number of Muslims in Britain but also – because we make decisions for our pieces to be broadcast internationally – the very significant numbers of Muslim viewers of BBC World television.”
Cultural sensitivities
That international perspective was also an important consideration for the news website, according to Steve Herrmann, editor of BBC News Interactive.
“We recognised that among our users there is a wide range of different cultural sensitivities and that the images would cause genuine offence to some,” he said.
The BBC truly is Al-Jazerra Mk II
*!£%?!
Oh, I forgot – Shami = HOT.
Rob
I don’t hate anyone. Nor does any BNP member I’ve met. I am not a member myself but I will support them untill another party says it will control the borders as I am concerned for my childrens future. By the way Simon, because you insulted me I’ve just wrote a fifty pound cheque donation and I’m sending the kid to post it now.
It’s your money pal.
For the record – the prospect of the “Respect Coalition” gaining any sort of political foothold in this country is just as frightening as the BNP doing the same.
Simon,
“Want a crusade do ya?
Sounds like Jihad by a nother name to me.”
By the time of the first crusade in 1095, islam had already swept away every pre-existing non-islamic culture from Eygpt to the Altantic coast of north Africa. It had overran the Persian empire, made inroads into India and Byzantium, and was already in occupation of southern Spain for over 200 years.
So no, jihad and crusade are not the same.
Just a minute. Horrocks (Head of BBC News) is waving a red rag here. What he is actually saying is now UK citizens (97% non-muslim) fund the BBC News through the TV licence AND general taxation to give me news all distilled through the prism of Islam?
I AM OFFENDED AT THAT. Now, can I get my way or do I have to threaten to behead you?
and yet the bbc thought nothing of broadcasting the Jerry Springer Opera.
oh wait – i remember – Christian fundies weren’t exactly threatening to cut Beeboids heads off.
well , it looks like the ghost of Neville Chamberlain is alive and well in the corridors of the BBC.
Check the (current picture). The placard reads:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/newswatch/ukfs/hi/default.stm
“Europe you have to pay, Bin Laden is on his way”
Incitement to violence per chance? Sorry but these people aren’t citizens, they are our enemies. By the time we realise it, it will be too late to avoid a terrible war.
Simon says
and then
Priceless
i wonder if PC Plod will arrest the people responsible for these incitements to murder and hatred?
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/060203/ids_photos_wl/r288321482.jpg
Sky are reporting on a “protest” which took place in London complete with posters saying “Free speech go to hell” and “Europe: Your 9/11 will come”.
http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30100-13501917,00.html
try as I might, I can’t seem to find this information on the BBC’s website.
More of the beeb’s deciding what the great unwashed need to know?
Deepdiver