Stephen Pollard takes issue with a Michael Buchanan piece – which has since been stealth-edited.
As for the idea that, All the Danes can do now is hope the repeated apologies for the offence caused, by both the government and the newspaper, will end this unseemly row, has a sentence more indicative of the BBC world view ever been written? Take a running jump, Mr Buchanan. So much for the BBC as a stout defender of free speech.
No Simon, I don’t want a Crusade but if a certain religious group which the BBC rarely mentions are not careful then the extremists on the non-rarely mentioned religious side will start stirring things again….the post after had a link to the Religious Policeman (a Saudi)which points out that this all started last September and nothing much was going on until (perhaps to distract from the usual hundreds of dead pilgrims during the latest Haij) the Saudis, the most extreme of Islamic sects suddenly started the whole thing up again….
As for a crusade – few people on the non-Muslim side have called for people to be beheaded or killed for insulting their faith, no-one was murdered after the BBC showed Springer despite 60,000 complaints and I wonder how quickly this would all be damped down if the US/EU said they were going to stop ALL aid to the Arab world. After all, we (EU) give 600 million to the Palestinians, the US some 250 million, ISRAEL some 50 million in tax refunds etc (how democratic- does Gaza give back the equivalent from their side of the fence? No?) The Arab world? Oh about 22 million last year…Shall we ask the US to stop the 2 BILLION they give to Egypt every year?
I note that when the original cartoons were republished in Arab newspapers there were a couple of extra ones added including one showing Muhammad with a pig’s face which was NOT published or created by the Danes. I note that when the NEWSWEEK saga kicked off and Muslims were killed by crowds of other Muslims in Pakistan for example it then came out that the so called “Koran down the toilet by US Soldiers” came from one anonymous source and that in fact it was alleged terrorists at Gitmo that did it….I note that when AQ blew up a mosque in Iraq with hundreds of Korans inside, no one in the Muslim world said a thing…..funny that. There are vicious cartoons run in Arab papers all the time against Israel and the US/EU etc.
NB:
I don’t worry about Verichka..she appears on Harry’s Place and elsewhere stirring things up as well…one moment agreeing and being all sweetness and light the next implying people are hysterical nutters….troll is the word that springs to mind.
“Muslims in Burnley said last night that the BBC could face the kind of backlash for broadcasting the images of Muhammad as Salman Rushdie did for writing The Satanic Verses [i.e., state sanctioned death threats].
“They were also angered that listeners to BBC’s Radio Five Live were asked to take part in a text vote on the issue.”
A must read. BBC urged to stick to its dhimmi status.
http://dailyablution.blogs.com/the_daily_ablution/2006/02/cartoons_partia.html
I must defend the BBC here.Remember when they were rude to the Saudi Ambassador,saying his country was not in the modern world.
It was when the Saudis were going to execute a drug smuggler.
I would support a muslim boycott of the BBC TV licence. (For all the wrong reasons of course).
From the same post as listed by max:
“banners displayed at yesterday’s BBC protest:
“Islam will conquer England”
“Slay those who insult Islam”
“Europe you will pay, extermination is on the way”
“Butcher those who mock Islam”
These are explicit provocations to mass murder. Will a “hate speech” prosecution be forthcoming? Don’t count on it.”
Too true…too true.
Quite so Ritter, as Henry Kissinger said of the Iran/Iraq war “Why cant they both lose?”
Dave T, I appreciate your elaboration – it was your rhetoric I was questioning. By equating a response to the Jihad of Bin Laden et all to a crusade I have visions of some sort of purge or pogrum against Muslims and against any country with Muslim population.
However I see from your response you are not advocating this but something more measured. For instance, as I’m sure you’d agree, the invasion of Afghanisthan, who’s regime was hiding Bin Laden, was a measured response in the light of 9/11.
I can’t vouch for Verichka, she may or may not be a troll. But for me I would say this much, (and this isn’t directed specifically at Dave t) this site is against the funding of the BBC and highlights it’s obvious bias. Now just because I disagree with the funding of the BBC on principle (hence my interest in this site) it doesn’t mean that I have to share the entire political viewpoint of the other commentators. Lots of commentators on this site are extremely forthright with their views. That doesn’t mean they all have to sing from the same hymsheet thought does it?
dave t
Pity they didn`t express those thoughts on thier asylum applications!
BTW – I agree that some of those banners constitute hate speech – a proscecution will not be forthcoming I’ll wager.
“Mr Horrocks said there wasn’t a direct comparison with the broadcasting of Jerry Springer – The Opera, which had prompted thousands of complaints from concerned Christians.
Censorship
“The BBC is not the primary publisher of these cartoons so to some extent it’s different from Jerry Springer where the BBC was responsible for commissioning that programme,” he explained. ”
Oh that’s alright then. I think its called a distinction without a difference. I don’t believe the BBC did commission the opera – it was already written. In any event doesn’t that make it worse? How about commissioning some cartoons?
another picture here
“slay those who insult islam”
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,251-2023462,00.html
why is this tolerated? will it take another series of London bombings for the penny to drop?
and why arent we mass arresting these people and putting them on a CIA rendition flight out of the country?
do innocent Brits have to die in yet another suicide bomb attack?
because archduke, they are using thier freedom of speech to protest against ours.
Just watched the “have Your Say” clip.
Discussion chaired by Nisha Pillau, who made sure that the Muslim spokesman had more uninterrupted speaking time than the Non-Muslim spokesman. She also accepted without question the remarks of muslim callers but cast doubt on non-muslim callers by her questions.
Par for the course with the beeb. Onanists!
US now sucking up to Islam
http://reuters.myway.com/article/20060203/2006-02-03T172223Z_01_N03197247_RTRIDST_0_NEWS-RELIGION-CARTOONS-USA-DC.html
Re:Dave t
Pictures:
http://news.yahoo.com/photos/ss/events/wl/020106danishcartoons/im:/060203/481/llp11702031645
http://news.yahoo.com/photos/ss/events/wl/020106danishcartoons/im:/060203/ids_photos_wl/r399679231.jpg
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/060203/ids_photos_wl/r3443127481.jpg
http://news.yahoo.com/photos/ss/events/wl/020106danishcartoons/im:/060203/ids_photos_wl/r288321482.jpg;_ylt=ApgoLydNrjCBCz03C.ZK3D2aK8MA;_ylu=X3oDMTA5bGcyMWMzBHNlYwNzc25hdg–?sp=-1&lsp=6000
http://news.yahoo.com/photos/ss/events/wl/020106danishcartoons/im:/060203/photos_ts_afp/0602031517137vvux78o_photo0;_ylt=AnhwJM1QUveyeX0RKY0Lrl6aK8MA;_ylu=X3oDMTA5bGcyMWMzBHNlYwNzc25hdg–?sp=-1&lsp=6000
Nice People.
And a bonus:
http://news.yahoo.com/photos/ss/events/wl/020106danishcartoons/im:/060203/481/lon10602031500;_ylt=Ao.xq5Px5SFK8F_2JHjLKiyaK8MA;_ylu=X3oDMTA5bGcyMWMzBHNlYwNzc25hdg–?sp=-1&lsp=6000
Sigh.
SiN – *sigh* of course…
well, hopefully MI5 are doing their job and keeping a close eye on these people.
i hope.
Re Grimer @ 3.38
You are still on the front page but your number of recommendations is down to 689. Are you sure it was once at over 800?
some of those placards pictured above refer to the “fantastic 4” – this refers to the London tube bombers.
the times has more on this..
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-1724541,00.html
so, let me get this straight – incitement to terrorism and murder on the streets of London is OK , as long as its a bunch of Islamo-moonbats?
Did anyone else notice that in articles covering the cartoon row, BBC News quotes the opinions of two readers who opposed the publishing of “anti-Islam” cartoons when those supporting freedom of speech were in the overwhelming majority?
(Disclaimer of sorts: the above link points to a post published on my newly-created journal.)
archduke, I thought I was being ironic, I`d rendition the bastards in a heartbeat!
Simon,
I was a lifelong Labour voter, now I vote BNP and am about to become a member.
I never thought in a million years that I would end up cheering on the BNP, but that was before New Labour started bringing in laws to favour minorities and our Police Force began practicing “positive discrimination”
I’m also about as anti EU as you can get.
Give me another party to vote for that represents my views as well as the BNP does and I will vote for them.
Re. the Crusades:
Robert Spencer’s “The Polictically Incorrect Guide to islam (and the Crusades)” makes a great read. See http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0895260131/qid=1138999098/sr=8-1/ref=pd_ka_1/202-6903029-2898249
Ah those Teutonic Knights and the French Orders – Syria became such a mess after being a Christian country – Egypt too and modern day Turkey – and now all poverty-stricken and with dubious civil rights –
Jan Martel, Rodrigues -“El Cid” – Jan Sobieski – yet none one of these heroes appears on a Euro banknote
“Sir” Ian Blair’s very quiet
Max I looked at your pics – noone from Gillette there handing out free Mach-2 razors – the nearest thing these guys will get to being ahead of their own noise.
Thank You Susan:
“No doubt Islamo-fascists (for this is what they are!) would ransack the western libraries and universities and galleries, burning any images of Mohammed in Western art they encountered.
Hate to tell you john, but it’s even worse than that. They would destroy the entire canon of Western figurative art, if they could. Think for example how many Renaissance masterpieces depict Jesus or other biblical figures.
Jesus, Moses, etc. are Muslim “prophets” and the prohibition of painting/drawing them is also demanded by Islam.”
This explains something I heard on the R5 (Victoria Derbyshire) Phone-in. One of the studio commentators remarked (in a general statement about compromise being the way forward) that Moslems in Britain made a compromise by letting churches have images and effigies of Christ.
I thought I misheard, but your post makes it clear:
The British Moslems have indeed made a compromise – with themselves.
__________________
For those who are interested, there will be more discussion of such ‘compromises’ (never has the term ‘Scare Quotes’ been more apt)on the Brian Hayes program, R5, 22:00
Not for those of a nervous disposition – or a foul temper.
At 18.56 I posted to say that Grimer’s cartoon posting on (D)HYS had 689 recommendations.
That number has now increased to 692 despite the beeb saying they were having technical difficulties with that site.
Obviously posters are getting into the site and making recommendations, although no new posts have been recorded since 16.32.
Is the site really down or is the fix in from the beeb? I suspect foul play.
Max:
One of those signs:
“Europe is the cancer – Islam is the answer?” I thought they didn’t believe in faith healing……
I hope this is not a hint for a poetry competition…..
“europe you will pay. demolition is on its way”
“massacre those who insult islam”
“exterminate those who slander islam”
“freedom of expression go to hell”
“slay those who insult islam”
photos here:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,251-2023462,00.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/religion/Story/0,,1701518,00.html?gusrc=rss
http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/afp/20060203/capt.sge.had84.030206151705.photo00.photo.default-384×254.jpg?x=380&y=251&sig=G.egLABEDguuNHw4S.nGKA–
outright calling for murder, genocide and terrorism. on the streets of london today. and it wasnt the BNP.
now, remind me again – why was Nick Griffin arrested?
you can lead The Times know how you feel by filling in the commentbox at the end of this page:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,564-2021700_3,00.html
ok. it might not be published, but at least somebody at the Times will be reading it , and thus get a handle on public opinion.
The double-standard is sickening indeed. Muslims have always been giving preferential treatment – even though they want to introduce sharia law and kill us. Is this insanity ever going to stop? What does it take? An explosion at a football stadium maybe?
if went outside the Saudi embassy with a placard saying “Death to Muslims” or “Convert to Christianity or die” , PC Plod would have me in the slammer in 5 minutes.
and may i add. quite rightly so. incitement to violence is just NOT on…
the Times gets it wrong… very wrong
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,542-2022354,00.html
“The Times would, for example, have reservations about printing a cartoon of Christ in a Nazi uniform sketched because sympathisers of Hitler had conducted awful crimes in the name of Christianity.”
last time i checked, the Nazi’s were pagan. Nazism was designed to SUPPLANT christianity. the Nazi’s crimes were never done in the name of christianity – they were ALWAYS done in the name of Nazism.
in fact, the few Nazi’s who were Christian (e.g. Ernst Rommel), shyed away from the excesses of Hitlers regime. Some even tried to kill Hitler, BECAUSE of their Christian beliefs.
sorry Times, please read your history before making such stupid statements.
Hear hear!
One of the studio commentators remarked (in a general statement about compromise being the way forward) that Moslems in Britain made a compromise by letting churches have images and effigies of Christ.
They “let” Christians have images and effigies of Christ in their churches? This was actually stated as an example of “compromise”?
There have been images of Christ in churches in the British Isles for MORE THAN FIFTEEN HUNDRED YEARS. WHO THE HELL ARE THESE ABDULLAH-COME-LATELIES who think they are being magnanimous by “letting” the people of the British Isles practice the traditions of their own FIFTEEN HUNDRED YEAR OLD historical culture IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY?
Lord god, help me contain my anger. These people are simply. . .unbelievable. And that you Brits have to keep financing the dhimmies at the Beeb. . .If I were British I would be rioting today, and damn the PC-Plods. I’d do my jail time, it would be worth it. Those placards shrieking their sick and repulsive hatred at British people are simply sickening.
“You Brits have to keep financing the dhimmies at the Beeb. . .If I were British I would be rioting today, and damn the PC-Plods. I’d do my jail time, it would be worth it. Those placards shrieking their sick and repulsive hatred at British people are simply sickening.” – Susan
Ah, Susan, that anyone else had the courage of your convictions. (Is there no Saudi embassy in the country where you live?)
I find this website endlessly fascinating, and have done ever since I discovered it. Any group of people that considers both Adolf Hitler and the BNP to be creatures of the Left is always going to make interesting reading.
But the thing is, where is the real action? I mean, there were Muslims protesting outside TV Centre in London within hours of the news breaking last night that the BBC would show these images. The anger – the rampant, incandescent anger – that flows through these pages towards that same organisation is surely as strong (indeed, many people feel that, to all intents and purposes, Islam = BBC). So why are Socialism Is Necrotizing, Ashley Pomeroy, Ritter etc not also standing there with their placards? You don’t even have to go to London – there are BBC local radio stations all over the country.
Gary Powell is the only person I’ve seen even take the effort to complain to the BBC. How many times have I seen phrases like “this is the last straw”; “The BBC have really gone too far this time”; “destroy the BBC and burn the Left-wing insects that dwell there”? Yet what, really, are you guys actually prepared to do?
blog about it?
Thom
If you go to Harry’s Place you will find countless articles on why Hitler and the BNP are more leftist than the BBC would like us to believe……
Thom Boston
I like, many people here, have complained to the BBC many times. It is a pebble into the ocean. I have written to the political parties to see what influence they can bring to bear (they at least have some power; surely the BBC has to notice their existence?); the result: “Address your complaints to the BBC”.
There are very few organisations in history like the BBC. It is like a branch of government but it is utterly divorced from government.
The closest approximation to the corporation I could imagine, would be to take a department of state, assign it a budget derived from direct taxation, remove its chief executive, so that it is no longer answerable to anybody, then cut it loose to do what it wants. It would be bound only by the collective aims of its personnel.
“Moslems in Britain made a compromise by letting churches have images and effigies of Christ.”
I bet the good Dhimmi that is Victoria Derbyshire lapped that up. How tolerant of them! “Letting” us have that, and in our own country too!
And that you Brits have to keep financing the dhimmies at the Beeb. . .If I were British I would be rioting today, and damn the PC-Plods. I’d do my jail time, it would be worth it
Ah Susan, in this country your criminal record would stay with you for 100 years. Remember it is a CRIMINAL not a CIVIL offence and as such you would find your employment prospects, bank accounts etc harder to find once you had a record
Don’t panic about the link from the US criticising Europe over publishing the cartoons – it’s from a State Department spokesman. Anyone from the US can tell you the State Department is hardly representative of US public opinion, or even government generally. I would imagine the State Department is viewed by many in the US as we view the Foreign Office or the BBC – with great suspicion.
don’t worry about Verichka..she appears on Harry’s Place and elsewhere stirring things up as well…one moment agreeing and being all sweetness and light the next implying people are hysterical nutters….troll is the word that springs to mind.
This is of very minor importance compared with the serious issues being debated. However, as I am being personally attacked I should respond.
(a) name is VENICHKA,not Verichka.
(b) I am male (the handle is from Venedikt, not Vera)
(c) So I have complex views, and sometimes have opinions that appear contradictory (until they are explained at greated length than comments post on blogs pages allow) – this makes me a troll? Get a grip, man.
Intelligent people usually do have a mixture of opinions (unless they have tied themselves blindly and foolishly to some ideology or other).
I am not a troll. I come here because I find things worth saying and hearing are posted here – some I agree with, some I don’t, some I have a mixture of agreement and disagreement with. And I try to contribute as best as I am able, within time and other constraints. Were I to be a troll, I would post things I don’t believe, dwell on trivialities, respond in over the topways to some of the over the top posts that do appear here with the intent of derailing a thread , etc, etc,
Cut the personal abuse, Dave T, you really should know better, you are one of the regular posters here whose opinions I respect, even if I do not always agree.
In any case you can agree to get my name and sex right!
Can anyone tell me which road the protesters marched down yesterday? I am filing a hate crime report on the MET’s website. If enough people do it, they might take notice.
http://www.online.police.uk/english/description_hate_crime.asp
Livid
The rabble will have walked down Sloane St. to number 55 (SW1X 9SR), the location of the Danish embassy
“No doubt Islamo-fascists (for this is what they are!) would ransack the western libraries and universities and galleries
I thought that is what they had done to the great library at Alexandria
Isn’t it good to see the European Commission coming out strongly in upholding the European Convention on Human Rights to defend a free press ?
I think the European Parliament has been very vociferous too ?
All those people like Baroso, Fratini, Verheugen with their resounding support – Baroness Sarah Ludford of the Lib Dems with her loud support – she who attacked
Rocco Butliglione for not being a gung-ho supporter of gay rights
Yes….Europe could be counted on to wave to passing Brownshirts or Blackshirts if they marched along Unter den Linden or the Appian Way
Archduke
Rommel actually commited suicide after his involvement in the plot to kill Hitler was uncovered.
Thom Boston makes a good point, heres the problem
-no external agency has BBC oversight
-I could complain to my Member of Parliament, but he has no influence over The BBC and furthermore he need its patronage come election time.
-I cannot organise a consumer boycott as the BBC accept no advertising.
-If i stood outside BBC HQ with a placard,the vast majority of people would think I was quite mad (imagine doing the same outside The New York Times or Mc Donalds Corp)
-The vast majority of Brits actually like the BBC or at least do not dislike it.
-trying to protest by witholding the licence fee would be like protesting the War in Iraq by withholding payments to the IRS.
-Only in extremis does the BBC ever admit to bias or error.
-Because it is literally impenetrable, and due to the nature of its funding, it is the perfect example of Extreme, Undemocratic Authoritarian Socialism in the West today (with the possible exception of the EU).
-As a tool of Govenment and espcially The Foreign office, the BBC has tentacles that extend deep into the middle east, their ouput is very Arabist in nature and they compete in this market, this alone circumscibes what they can do at home.
-None of the main Political Parties would end funding of the BBC, all depen on its patronage during elections.