It’s a dream BBC headline for a Monday morning, brought about by yet another drippingly wet report from the uberleft Joseph Rowntree Foundation. In essence this risible report concludes that “social cohesion” cannot be brought about by imposing British values but rather by spending more cash fighting “deprivation.” In fairness to the BBC they do provide David Conway from Civitas the chance to respond to the Rowntree report, but he ends up agreeing with the idea that imposed Britishness is not the way forward. The BBC report concludess with a nice little flourish which claims that devolution has further weakened the British shared identity. No further comment is provided or required I guess.
I find it difficult to remain passive when i read this bullshit , social cohesion comes from people working towards a common goal , ususally to better and enrich their lives , tell me when did a non english speaking muslim share the same ideology as an every day white christian worker ? some perhaps do but i dont think the majority do , same for the gangs of youths who spend their time raping and stabbing in london , which bears an uncanny resemblence to the types of crimes that are commited in Kingston town Jamaica every night . The only social cohesion i want to see is with people who want to be in England speaking English and working for a better standard of living , and no amount of rowntree bollocks will change my mind.
There’s a fantastic social cohesion building up around here, and it’s a searing hatred of NuLabour and Mr Brown and his BBC chums.
How can you ‘impose’ a ‘value’ on someone in the first place? If they’re forced to do something it’s not a ‘value’. It’s also surely not news that differences in ‘values’ cause more problems in the context of poverty. Nobody cares if an investment banker wants to pray 5 times a day in his penthouse in Mayfair.
So basically a statement of the bleeding obvious which completely fails to touch on a) why people with different values should be allowed to immigrate in the first place and b) exactly how you do about ‘fighting’ social deprivation. ho hum.
I can’t believe that anyone still values Britain over their nation state though – pretty much everyone would jump at the chance to get shot of the Scots.
There’s an excellent post by Woman On A Raft over at Guido’s:
“News is something somebody doesn’t want you to know. The top 3 stories on BBC tv ‘news’ this morning are:
*Overhaul of the benefits system
*Anti-social behaviour and what’s to be done
*Childhood obesity and what’s to be done.
None of these stories required any more skill than to re-package government hand-outs and send an obsequious camera handler to try to find the good side of which ever ugly mug they are required to point at. It isn’t news – it’s government PR. At most it is an interesting feature if accompanied by critical analysis of what the government proposes, instead of shameless arse-licking not seen since the Royal Correspondents of Her Majesty’s Press were allowed in to ask about the Crown’s plans to attend a banquet on Tuesday next. “Thank you Gracious Majesty for favouring us with a preview of the proposed menu, and now over to the studio”.
News slot no. 4 was also not news, as evidenced by it being something the Portuguese intend to say openly and publicly later on. It will be a fantastic surprise and worth going if they suddenly produce a kidnapper and yell ‘She’s Here! She’s Alive!’ but the chances of that being the story are considerably smaller than finding Atlas is living on the Isles of Scilly in yurt made out of freemasons’ skins. A statement by the Portuguese police isn’t a news story and there is no reason to have sent anybody there; it could have been covered by any standard newsfeed.”
Couldn’t have put it better. The BBC’s credibility with the public is now on a par with Pravda during the Soviet era. And for those Beeboids who try to defend their editorial line as unbiased, try defending the utterly crap standard of reporting mentioned above.
Surely we need to define exactly what “Britishness” is first? I couldn’t describe it if I tried.
Like someone said further up, social cohesion comes about when residents work together toward a common goal. And a common goal of eliminating deprevation is surely a worthy one?
But if “imposing Britishness” is getting Muslims to morris dance all the way to the footie on a Saturday afternoon, or having Polish people increase their self-employed prices to British levels, or forcing Congolese refugees to drink Pimms at the cricket, it’s probably not a good idea. However, if it means ensuring immigrants contribute positively to society, obey the laws of the land and don’t try to change them based on fairytales (or “religion” as it’s commonly known), and of course ensure they speak basic English within a year of arriving, then perhaps we’ll start to get somewhere.
Perhaps the BBC should look at what divides communities rather than reporting on reports. If they’re as objective as they are supposed to be they’ll find language, religion (militant AND “liberal”), and cultural values are the biggest issues. And I speak from living in a “diverse” area myself.
I agree with TTMG. British law is the closest thing to a definition of ‘Britishness’ there is – it should be applied rigorously and should under no circumstances be up for negotiation on cultural or ‘religious’ grounds. The British language is the other main uniting force and should be obligatory to anyone wanting to reside here. Otherwise as long as people don’t take advantage of the welfare system without first contributing to it I don’t really care what they do in their spare time.
Not sure “British” “values” generally has much meaning now though even within the ethnic majority, particularly post 80s individualism (if it ever existed). I’m much more comfortable being in Berlin or Milan than visiting family in the west country for example.
“I can’t believe that anyone still values Britain over their nation state though – pretty much everyone would jump at the chance to get shot of the Scots.”
Much of the Scots housing market has been boosted by english folk cashing in their chips and moving to Scotland.
You guys voted for Maggie and her sociopathic policies and now those of you who have amassed enuf cash are unassing places like London for the relative social safety of lefty hellholes like Scotland.
The handy thing about people with attitudes like your own is we don’t get overrun by a flood of ya.
You guys voted for Maggie and her sociopathic policies
What a dumb cluck. If we never have another thieving socialist Scots PM ever, it’ll be too soon. That goes for the cabinet too.
Apologies my saner Scottish friends who live south of the border. Most people I know are fleeing or thinking of fleeing ABUK.
That’s anywhere but UK. Australia, NZ, US, Canada, et al.
Cockney,
It was the law angle I was thinking of when I wrote this post. I think the BBC has a problem with the idea of ALL those who reside in this country obeying the law and I suspect that the Rowntree Foundation and their BBC soulmates with this simple British concept – all equal under the law – even those multiculti groups that so enrich our society.
Unbelievable World at One today:
1. Trevor Phillips and the cohesion / equality agenda, with commentator Mark Easton calling it “radical” but the problem is the wily middle class;
2. Zanu PF discussions report – compulsory daily Zimbabwe;
3. Interminable Barack spokeswoman on Barack having been always in the right on Iraq;
3. Ofcom criticism of Channel 4 on the Great Global Warming Swindle: World at One’s Brian Hanrahan asking how such mistakes could be made.
Er… that’s it, that’s all the news the Beeb thinks is worth talking about, while poor old Blighty disappears down the pan. Beyond parody…
the left hates the british empire but loves third world immigration over here. what is wrong with them.
these leftwing thinktanks are so out of anyway. feral youths dont exist in the real
world type delusions.
*out of touch
I’ve recently witnessed the beginning of a single social cohesion disaster. A 16 year old girl I know, who is a simpleton and heavily overweight, dropped out of education after falling pregnant by her partner she had known for 6 weeks. She is not allowed to bring the new born child to any gatherings without permission of the partner, who is almost twice her age. He has not made himself available to meet and does not want the child involved in what he considers to be wreckless debauchery (an anniversary party). He is now returning to the Ivory Coast where he wants to take the girl and child to visit his family for a holiday. The return date has not been specified. She innocently tells me she intends to stay on benefits permanently after she returns.
There is simply no way of legislating cohesion when such lifestyles exist. Who is to blame I wonder. Education? Excessive welfare? Lazy parenting?
Groups like the Rowntree Foundation exist for one purpose only – to carry out token “surveys” which they then use as a vehicle to promote socialism. There is not one aspect of society, one statistic or “trend” that they won’t shoehorn into their Marxist message.
This is how the left has always behaved. They like to “package deal” everything into a perpetual crusade against capitalism. There is nothing that cannot be blamed on a lack of “equal wealth”, from racism, sexism, paternalism, police brutality, etc etc etc. The idea is to take issues which they think will be dear to the hearts of the masses, and to convince them that “socialism is the answer”.
All leftists use this trick. Here in New York, marches in protest of police shootings are common, and every single one I have ever witnessed has been hijacked by the local communist party, who provide protesters with banners and placards with their logo on and kak-handed attempts to link the shooting to capitalism. The funniest one I ever saw, a couple of years ago during an Al Sharpton march down 5th Avenue, was a banner which read “End Police Brutality – Embrace Communism”
It is obvious to everyone that the Rowntree Foundation is nothing more than an agent of propaganda, I just wish the BBC wouldn’t give them the publicity they pretty much guarantee every time they open their mouths. I wish I could use the BBC as a mouthpiece for MY opinions.
Lots of spouting about ‘Osama’ on Radio 5. Colin Murray is in for Mayo, so of course we had to have two liberals on to talk about how wonderful ‘Osama’ is and what a vile man McCain is.
I nealryc hocked when Murray stated that McCain didn’t get as much press coverage as ‘Osama’ when he went to Iraq. No shit Colin!!! Best ask your Beeboid mates why (here’s a clue, everyone is in the tank for ‘Osama’ at the BBC).
Then we had the usual sneering text and emails about how America is racist and they will never vote for a black President and of course, Europe is FULL of black Presidents and Prime Ministers isn’t it?
“There is simply no way of legislating cohesion when such lifestyles exist. Who is to blame I wonder. Education? Excessive welfare? Lazy parenting?
Cheeta | Homepage | 21.07.08 – 1:48 pm | # ”
Germaine Greer.
“There is simply no way of legislating cohesion when such lifestyles exist. Who is to blame I wonder. Education? Excessive welfare? Lazy parenting?”
Education defo. It might be a pain in the arse paying for the workshy and/or incapable but absolutely nobody bright would want to live on benefits – ‘excessive’ yes but they afford you an absolutely shocking standard of living. Educated people get decent jobs, work (reasonably)hard, get on with each other, don’t bother other people, don’t have a persecution complex, don’t embrace ridiculous extremist politics or religion…
My firm recruits from the top 5% of graduates. Our office is a multiculturalists wet dream but everyone gets on because they’re intelligent enough to know that being pleasant, meeting people half way, and generally getting on with them means a lot less stress in the long run. It’s stupidity that makes cultural differences dangerous because idiots are inflexible and just wind each other up – so as David says the only recourse is the law.
The liberals really do have a bee in the bonnet over the term ‘British’ to them it reeks of Imperialism and as such should be forbidden in case it offends those who are not British. This slant on life on these Isles is all the more perverse as it has been allowed to be drummed into the minds of our children for around 20 years.
The bBC is most complicit when it comes to pointing the finger at those who have reinvented history for their own political agenda. Lets not forget that while Maggie did indeed rule the country for around 12 years, the vast majority of councils were left wing and had no problem following the likes of the bBC in painting ‘Maggie’ as guilty of every crime going.
Myself I come from West Yorkshire and I noted was how the councils spent loads of tax payer’s money on promoting their mindset as the only way. We had Town signs which declared themselves Nuclear free zones as a response to the deployment of cruise missiles. We saw councils twinning themselves with African towns because of Nelson Mandela and we saw councils spending lots of cash in which to promote homosexuality as much better than heterosexuality.
When Maggie came to power the far left ruled this country. We had the 3 day week which was how the coal miners held the country to ransom so as to get a pay rise. We had the winter of discontent where the Unions held the country to ransom so as to get a pay rise. Lets not forget the food shortages of the 70s. The teachers strikes. How about the idiots at the state car factory who supported the fiscal policies of the Soviet Union which insured they got paid no matter what, the cars they made were shite and it is they who are responsible for the demise of the British car industry rather than Maggie.
Yes its fine calling Maggie the Milk snatcher, yet her government got this country back on its feet. (Like every conservative government has done) Every labour one while shouting out ‘You’ve never had it so good’ has ensured that their Leftwing doctrine sends the British tax payers hard earned cash to every foreign country going. OK i can live with that. But the current party in power has bettered that by allowing those poor people of the world who cannot afford anything to come over here and live and our expense. Let’s hear it for the World NHS set up to treat everybody and anybody free of charge funded by the British taxpayer.
As for that pathetic remark by Ady about English people moving to Scotland. Excuse me? There are more Sweaty socks living in England than English living in Scotland. Not only that but if you could happen to follow the Scottish news you would see that Scotland is crying out for people to move there. Funny enough the Scottish Parliament is referring to Poles, Asylum seekers and Muslims rather than their fellow Brits the English. My Neighbour is Scottish, Her sister who lives two doors down is Scottish, the lad who lives 2 door the other way is Scottish. His girlfriend has Scottish parents. The lad I work with his Scottish. They have no problem living in England So why do you?
Your mindset is all that is wrong with the Left POV that being British is wrong because of its so called racist past. Tell you what mate go and live in the bBCs paradise of Cuba and burn the local flag. In fact how about burning the Scottish flag on a Saturday night in Sauchiehall Street. Now do the same thing by burning the English flag in the middle of London. In Glasgow you’d get a glasgee kiss,in London people wouldn’t batter an eye lid.
But here’s the crux, in England the left berate us for having any loyalty to the country. In Scotland and Cuba it is ingrained into the DNA of the locals. So while the left refer to Britishness as a form of ugly nationalism, everybody’s else is promoted as equality and just.
Myself I love Scotland and have spent many a time up there. However I am proud to call myself British and to me that includes the Jocks, the Taffs and the Irish.
Cockney said: It’s stupidity that makes cultural differences dangerous because idiots are inflexible and just wind each other up – so as David says the only recourse is the law.
—————————-
100% correct. I remember watching some Muslim youths interviewed on tv asking for their opinions on Iraq and 7/7 a couple years ago. They were to a man inarticulate and couldn’t develop any sort of argument one way or the other, or defend their own position. All they could say was they felt ‘attacked’ as we had invaded Iraq, despite the fact they’d never even been there. This was a time when Tony Blair believed he could argue and convince these very people to believe in our ‘values’ and hence put a stop to future 7/7. The problem with Blair’s approach, I thought, was how on earth do you reach or argue round such unbelivably stupid people? You can’t.
I learnt the hard way myself. The local nutter in my old hometown randomly attacked one of my mates whilst we were walking to the pub one night. Another mate and I stood watching the fight, and I decided to step in, to reason with the local nutter. Big mistake. He nutted me without entering any discussion. Lesson: don’t bother arguing with stupid people, it’s a waste of time. Applies universily.
pounce | 21.07.08 – 5:47 pm |
Well said.
“The Equality and Human Rights Commission must be given the power to fight the class divide in Britain, its chairman has said.”
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7518207.stm
No he should be given no “power” at all – until he stands as an MP and someone votes him into parliament.
Cockney: Education doesn’t seem to have done much good for your powers of reasoning.
Jon
absolutely correct.Phillips is suggesting ,as is so common now by public figures,that so called statutory bodies usurp the proper role of parliamentary democracy.Preparing for the post democratic age perhaps?
Now I seem to have heard that before.
WE know best and the voters are too stupid or selfish to do as we want.
Solution abolish the voters.
In essence the liberal left third way agenda.
Do I detect an increasing air of desperation amongst these people?
I hope so. This country feels more like 1960s eastern Europe every day.
Mind you that all ended in failure and so will the grand social engineering experiment of our progressive elite.
The stubborn largely silent English middle and hard working class is beginning to get annoyed.From time to time they do.
The liberal left’s delusion that England does not really exist and has never existed and that the English likewise do not exist is the dominant myth of our time,subscribed to by the BBC and all right thinking progressives.
It always amazes me that presumably intelligent people can be so stupid.
fewqwer – how so? or does your vocabulary stop at 14 words
It’s BRITAIN for fux sake. Should fuxing Britain be fuxing British.
What the fuck is wrong with these leftist. Is there anything these mother fuckers don’t ruin?
Cockney
OK I’ll bite. Your post was such a tangled mess of illogic that further comment seemed pointless. A rebuke seemed apt 😉
“Education defo. It might be a pain in the arse paying for the workshy and/or incapable but absolutely nobody bright would want to live on benefits – ‘excessive’ yes but they afford you an absolutely shocking standard of living.”
So, access to education enables bright, hardworking people to get good jobs. No shit Sherlock.
“Educated people get decent jobs, work (reasonably)hard, get on with each other, don’t bother other people, don’t have a persecution complex, don’t embrace ridiculous extremist politics or religion…”
You are now attributing desirable outcomes to educated people, not bright people as before. What about the educated “workshy and/or incapable”? Could it be that the personal qualities you list are among those required to succeed in education, not the product of it? The cynic might suggest that education merely enables bright, hardworking people to obtain a piece of paper that says, “I’m bright and hardworking, and therefore probably not a thug or a crook”. I’m a cynic.
“My firm recruits from the top 5% of graduates. Our office is a multiculturalists wet dream but everyone gets on because they’re intelligent enough to know that being pleasant, meeting people half way, and generally getting on with them means a lot less stress in the long run. It’s stupidity that makes cultural differences dangerous because idiots are inflexible and just wind each other up – so as David says the only recourse is the law.”
Education will fix this, how? Will it cause idiots to be in the ‘top 5% of graduates’? Will it cause idiots to stop … being idiots? And as for your multicultural office, how many of your colleagues walk about wearing tents? How many nip out 5 times a day to worship their sky daddy? How many different sects require their own special facilities to support their superstitions? How many refuse to work with women, interest-bearing loans, etc, etc? How many topics of conversation are absolutely off-limits, for fear of causing offence and/or lawsuits? Did you in fact mean ‘multiracial’, and were too peecee to say it? Is it that you think education will eradicate such superstitious cultural nonsense? How ironic.
Cockney, in your office where you work with colleagues from the country’s top 5% graduates, does anybody eat a bacon sandwich?
Well as a less cynical cynic than your good self I happen to believe that a respectable education can develop people from idiocy, through mediocrity and even onwards into intelligence, developing some of those qualities that I mentioned along the way.
Obviously you’re not going to change the quantity of the top 5% of grads (unless the overall quantity rises), but we’re in a global marketplace y’know – if employers identify Britain as a source of intelligence then more highly paid, high value jobs will locate here and a greater percentage of the population won’t be wandering around Peckham stabbing each other.
And yes, incredible though it may seem to yourself we do have muslims in our office who, despite indulging in ludicrous superstitious cultural nonsense like not eating bacon sandwiches, manage to perform their work duties, engage with members of the opposite sex, advise clients on interest bearing investments and fulfill their work obligations around whatever praying duties they indulge in. Because they’re intelligent enough not to fall for a lot of beardy weirdy crap from a twat on benefits in the arse end of a poverty trap estate.
The Jews are a bit of a pain in the arse though. No, joke, JOKE!!!!!
Cockney:“Well as a less cynical cynic than your good self I happen to believe that a respectable education can develop people from idiocy, through mediocrity and even onwards into intelligence, developing some of those qualities that I mentioned along the way.”
There’s that word again, ‘believe’.
Is your faith in this case based on the consensus of expert opinion, as it is with climatological esoterica, or is it a product of your own investigations?
I’m no expert myself, but I suspect that hypotheses based on your experiences at work would not even generalize to the ‘bottom 95% of graduates’, much less the whole of humanity.
Sod education then, it’s pointless.
Let’s close the schools down and send the kids back up chimneys 🙂