I picked this up care of a Biased-BBC reader DB on the most recent open thread and wanted to amplify the point made. You will recall the murderous assault on innocent Israelis that took place in Jerusalem on July 3rd. A Palestinian psycho hijacked a bulldozer and killed three people and critically injured several more before being shot dead. Then, on July 22nd another Palestinian tried a copycat murder, injuring several people before his rampage was cut short care.
So, guess who the real victims of this Palestinian instigated carnage is? Yes, Palestinians! Or so the BBC says. Read the nauseating biased article as a classic example of how the BBC twists every event in this region to portray the Palestinians as the poor victims even, as in these cases, where they are the obvious murderous aggressors.
Douglas,
Hold on…a minute ago you were talking about children being murdered by israelies…now you have moved on to teenagers.
So which is it? Are children being deliberately murdered by Israel (and by that I mean, it is the children being targetted, not the hamas terrorist in the car) or are teenagers being deliberately murdered by Israel?
You chop and change your stance as quickly as Obama chops and changes his.
Mailman
ps. BTW, with a side step like that you should play rugby.
I usually stick to general points and rarely make personal attacks. This is rare.
Douglas thinks he is even-handed. His wiser-than-thou position gives him the authority to opine from the moral high ground. So moral and high that he feels he possesses insight that we bigots lack.
He confesses to having little knowledge of history, but never mind, righteous indignation alone is enough. He finds the suggestion that Islam is inherently antisemitic so offensive that he has to avert his eyes.
Go and have a lie down, Douglas. You have seen a bad thing.
Douglas will not entertain the possibility that he himself might have been seduced by the propaganda that we are attempting to expose.
Reiterating selective facts presented to you by the BBC doesn’t cut the mustard. Or maybe you’ve come across Yvonne Ridley. Now she’s a real expert on baby-killing by Israel. But then, you only listen to Fox News.
I can’t imagine why you are commenting here in that unlikely case.
“If I were the father or the brother (or increasingly sister) of a baby that had been killed by a foreign state…..”
This is puzzling. Are we to assume that you are slowly changing gender?
Now Anonymous has chimed in with a cruel and thoughtless snipe. In the name of God, I see.
There is masses of information out there for anyone to seek out if they’re interested. All aspects, all viewpoints, all perspectives. Yet people are satisfied to bypass all that and substitute it with spluttering outraged comments.
Their ignorance of the subject is astounding. But they are blissfully unaware of that too.
Just a pity Palestinians dont value the lives of their children like those of us who live in civilised parts of the world do.
May God forgive you for writing such thoughtless and cruel nonsense.
Anonymous | 25.07.08 – 3:56 pm | #
Wrong, Anonymous (BBC). The ‘palestinians’ do not value the lives of their children as we do. There are many parents who state their pleasure at mustafa’s or mohamad’s suicide bomb and wish that their other children (they do have lots of children) would do likewise. This is the way it is and Israel has to be vigilant.
I see that during my absence my esteemed B-BBC colleagues have lost none of their edge. I have been doing battle over at the BBC’s World Have Your Say, which is lefty run, natch, but surprisingly democratic since there are moderators from the right and all moderators comment as well as moderate, making it relatively transparent:
http://worldhaveyoursay.wordpress.com/2008/07/25/talking-points-25-july/
Sue | 25.07.08 – 2:30 pm,
Pity that Douglas was so distressed by your Islam comment that he could read no further. He might have learned something.
Don’t you just love the BBC’s quotation marks.
TPO | 24.07.08 – 6:03 pm
Yes, this really caught my eye:
Israeli police said they were treating it as a “terrorist” attack.
The statement is already in reported speech so the only reason to use quotes is to further distance the BBC from any idea of Arabs actually being terrorists. Well I suppose at least they didn’t put words in the mouths of the Israelis, as they usually do, by claiming they said “militants.”
Sue: I read as far as ‘anti-semitism which is at the very heart of Islam’ and decided to stop.
Douglas | 25.07.08 – 3:35 pm |
Extract from the Hadith
Book 041, Number 6981:
“Ibn ‘Umar reported Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: You will fight against the Jews and you will kill them until even a stone would say: Come here, Muslim, there is a Jew (hiding himself behind me) ; kill him.”
from this Islamic research site –
http://www.yanabi.com/library/library.cfm?SubChapterID=1230&ChapterID=136
Pretty clear to me.
Douglas,
Hisbullah dragged Lebanon in to a war it didnt deserve and didnt want to be a part of yet to people like you it is Israel who are totally to blame for the deaths of babies.
People like you are an instrumental part of the Arab propoganda and mechanisms working away to rid the world of their jewish problem once and for all.
However, I suspect, just as Chamberlain found out in 1939, by the time you are finally aware of whats going on in the real world it will be too late.
Mailman
Mailman: I was answereing David Praisers question. My belief about the state killing of children stands.
I have also said that the actions of the terrorists in putting children in the way of harm as evil.
I dont believe in Arab (or Muslim) propaganda. Allan@Oslos response to Anon is pretty much what I feel. Like others I think you are confusing my objection to the State of Israel killing children with, at best, ignorance of the Muslim threat and at worst ant-semitism. Neither are correct.
RightofCentre: Interesting link. You will find many Christians believing in the rapture as part of their end time narrative but Jesus said nothing about it. I suppose we could end up throughing quotes at each other so I concede that the Qur’an makes it very easy to brainwash Muslims into terrorists.
Hi Bryan,
Glad you’re back. I wondered where you’d got to.
Douglas doesn’t deign to acknowledge us.
We’ll get over it though, eh?
Only joking Douglas.
What is your belief on the state killing of children. Is this a policy you know of?
Which state has such a policy?
Are you still hiding from my allegation that Islam’s fundamental antisemitism is behind the Arabs’ determination to obliterate Israel?
i.e. the root of the conflict in the middle east. ?
Shocking innit. Duck back down behind the sofa. Another bad thing has got out.
Always lots of comments on certain specific third world tribal conflict articles in here.
I gotta admit that the BBC not being a member of the standard media circle jerk does make it a wee bit more interesting.
Anyway, good luck to those of you who are rooting for the ooga booga tribe.
…or should that be the ugga wugga tribe?
Damn…they all look the same to me…
Hi Sue,
Thanks for the chuckle and for the great, comprehensive comments.
It was also with amusement that I traced Douglas’ transformation as the thread unfurled:
From a justifier of Arab terrorism, slinging outraged cliches at Israel:
The conflict turns Muslims all over the world into apologists for terror. And a state that justifies the continual bombing of civilians is beneath contempt.
Douglas | 24.07.08 – 10:53 pm
To a more reasonable sort of fellow, contradicting his earlier assertions:
I have never said that Israelis are evil.
Douglas | 25.07.08 – 2:01 pm
[Nope, just beneath contempt.]
If the state of Israel has not wilfully bombed children then I withdraw the remark.
Douglas | 24.07.08 – 11:22 pm
[Well, thank goodness for that.]
Could be that Douglas has learned something during his visit here. He certainly has calmed down a lot.
Sue: I am not ignoring you, just waiting for your comments move from accusation to debate. You will note that RightofCentre brought some evidence to the table to which I debated and responed. Tecnically all religions are against each other (and have used to commit mass murder – Crusades and Pogroms come to mind) so to phrase your arguements from that perspective offers nothing to change my orginal supposition that ‘they are all as bad as each other’. And then you got personal.
I dont know where you are from but the coverage by Fox, WSJ and even the Telegraph of Scotland and Scottish issues is very limited. Ergo the BBC is an option I have to use. Whilst my desire for Scottish news is against your imagination I did state that I used the aforementioned sources for my international news.
As I have said to David Praiser, Israel has something along the line of a ‘Just War’ policy. By adopting the ‘right’ to militarily respond to terrorism and kill children whilst doing so means that I firmly believe that the state of Israel has adopted a policy that kills children.
I have say that your comment that the Arabs determination to obliteratie Israel as being the root of conflict in the middle east as being a bit broad brush. The Jews have articluated the desire to return to the Land of Israel for far longer than Islam has existed (going as far back as Shalmaneser V?).
By the way, Jordan is an Arab country.
Douglas
Just noticed this:
I have also said that the actions of the terrorists in putting children in the way of harm as evil.
Douglas | 26.07.08 – 10:13 am
Isn’t it fascinating that this comment comes in the “also said” category, a bit like an “also ran” in a race.
Actually I can’t remember him saying this, but I guess it must have been an eventual and reluctant response to numerous people here hammering some truths into his head about Arab tactics in the Arab-Israeli conflict.
It certainly wasn’t anything he kicked off with. Low on the priority list of the outraged defender of children, I guess.
Actually it’s more likely that he had never considered the matter of Arab terrorists hiding behind their children.
Funny how anyone who asks the following question of the anti-Israel brigade never gets an answer:
What would you do to stop terrorism againt your people?
“You will find many Christians believing in the rapture as part of their end time narrative but Jesus said nothing about it”
Douglas | 26.07.08 – 10:13 am |
I think that`s a mainly evangelical thing, and the word “rapture” doesn`t appear in The Bible.
Whereas
“Ibn ‘Umar reported Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: You will fight against the Jews and you will kill them until even a stone would say: Come here, Muslim, there is a Jew (hiding himself behind me) ; kill him.”
Was apparently said by big mo himself.
Every Muslim believes that.
Bryan: Since you are so good at taking sentances out of context, tell me where I said this:
“From a justifier of Arab terrorism,”
(and have used to commit mass murder – Crusades and Pogroms come to mind)
Oh please. Enough of the dhimmi ignorance about The Crusades.
“The Crusades” were a Christian reaction to many centuries of Muslim aggression and conquest and expansion.
That Islamic rampage began with the conquest (and mass murder) of Jerusalem in AD 638. Not by Chrtistians, but by Muslims.
Christians didn’t wake up one day and decide to go a Crusading and mass murder Muslims.
Did 11th century armies, adopting the norms and customs of warfare of the day, do terrible things? Yes. As did their enemies.
Did they exact brutal revenge that would be called a “war crime” by today’s standards. Yes. As did their enemies.
Did they set out with a Christian duty to murder. No.
Douglas
Is it just me or have you and Ady become completely incoherent?
Well at least your comment has a smidgeon of something or other in it. But what?
The news that you aren’t ignoring me is much appreciated.
My comments to you are probably a mixture of accusation and debate. The idea of someone waiting for them to move from one to the other is weird. How long have you got? You might have a very long wait. Keep at it, though. I wouldn’t want to deter you or anything. It might happen when you’re not looking so be vigilant.
But I’m giving you a clue. On the whole, the way you see them defines their category. In the eye of the beholder so to speak. Geddit?
Technically all religions are against each other? Not so, I think. I don’t know all that much about the technicalities of religion, but I’ll stick my neck out and plump for disagreeing with you on that.
If you really want to know, I was born in Scotland. But I didn’t watch the news before we emigrated to England as I was only 5. You would have to be very precocious to be interested in such things at that age don’t you agree?
“Your desire for Scottish news is against my imagination?” What are you on about?
You said you got all your info about Israel’s state policy of killing children from Fox. I stupidly assumed you had also heard something like that from the Beeb. Since you were here, on B-BBC, commenting on bias by the BBC and all.
Is that what you meant? If so I apologise, if that’s appropriate. (For accusing you of listening to the BBC.)
The paragraph that begins ‘I have to say..’ is unintelligible to me. I don’t know what you’re getting at.
Thank you for telling me that Jordan is an Arab country, but why? I don’t remember asking you that?
Douglas, I am taking the piss. But that’s what I’m like. You can come out now. It’s safe.
This comment I posted on Saturday seems to have got lost:
Douglas | 26.07.08 – 12:38 pm
Here:
The conflict turns Muslims all over the world into apologists for terror.
Looking at your sentence in context, you are saying that the Israelis, who are “beneath contempt” are responsible for the radicalisation of the Muslim world in its justification of terrorism. You seemed to be implying that if those murderous Israelis could just bring their killing of children under control, the Muslim world would not support terrorism.
This is a cart before the horse approach. Arab terrorism against Jews, in the modern era at least, began in Palestine early last century, long before the establishment of Israel, and has not stopped since. It is relentless. Why do you imagine that Hamas barely took a breath after Israel’s disengagement from Gaza before continuing to fire rockets at Israeli civilians? The aim here is evidently not “land for peace” but the destruction of Israel. It is in Hamas’ Charter.
Muslims do not need any Israeli action to become “apologists for terror.” They already are through their history, their centuries of anti-Jew indoctrination all based, of course, on their Koran.
As I said, you moderated your stance in later comments. So what is your actual position? Do you stand by the first remarks you made on this thread?
Frankly, both sides are as bad as each other. Claim and Couterclaim, Terrorist Missle and State Assisination of Children it doesn’t make much difference. They are both killing each other.
The conflict turns Muslims all over the world into apologists for terror. And a state that justifies the continual bombing of civilians is beneath contempt.
Douglas | 24.07.08 – 10:53 pm |
Or are you beginning to understand that there is a vast difference, not only between the actions of the two sides in this conflict but also their motivation?
There’s no difference between them.
They’ve been murdering each other for the best part of two thousand years and there’s absolutely no evidence that they’re likely to change anytime soon.
The kit they use nowadays is a lot more sophisticated than machetes, but otherwise its business as usual.
Here’s to the next thousand years.
cheers!